Jen Harrison Split from Big Daddy's Wholesale Thread

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Check out the thread on Wyatt somethingorother over on fauna. He's got some nasty virus and still selling on ks too.

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Yea, he is a mess lately huh? Jen did good breeding those Maybe sick snakes this year also?? I havent kept up with it.. lol!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Yea, he is a mess lately huh? Jen did good breeding those Maybe sick snakes this year also?? I havent kept up with it.. lol!

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jen is a WHOOOOOOLE other can o worms. I like the girl, but she has some issues.

I don't know if breeding those snakes was really cool. We still don't know for certain what the out come of her infection was and now she has snakes that will be going to other people.

Plus, she's getting out, then in, then gets donations, then is going to sell them, then gets more balls.....

I think I would have sat this year out just to make sure nothing more flared up.

Oh well, we'll see either way.

She does have some killer calkings now though.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

jen is a WHOOOOOOLE other can o worms. I like the girl, but she has some issues.

I don't know if breeding those snakes was really cool. We still don't know for certain what the out come of her infection was and now she has snakes that will be going to other people.

Plus, she's getting out, then in, then gets donations, then is going to sell them, then gets more balls.....

I think I would have sat this year out just to make sure nothing more flared up.

Oh well, we'll see either way.

She does have some killer calkings now though.

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I Agree with you yet again! Weird aint it? LOL! Oh, Send me some calking pics. I want one for my Daughters birthday soon..

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Originally Posted by wilomn

We still don't know for certain what the out come of her infection was and now she has snakes that will be going to other people.

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Hold the phone.
She is selling those babies?

I think it was over on Alex's site, or maybe her blog, that she mentioned she may be. Perhaps it was just a passing whim, but when I read it, it sort of bugged me however, with all the crap she's been through, especially since I was one of the first to question her quarantine, or lack there of, proceedures, I just let it go.

I'm sure someone will let her know it's been brought up if she doesn't read it here herself and then she can address it as she wishes to.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Hold the phone.
She is selling those babies?

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Dude, she has sold some of the Maybe sick ones also!! But you didnt here that from me.. Cause i'm banned from those places lol!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Dude, she has sold some of the Maybe sick ones also!! But you didnt here that from me.. Cause i'm banned from those places lol!

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:frustrate Ugh! You have no idea how much I disagree with her on this one. You can't blow it off with a "buyer beware" statement and think that exhonerates you. Ugh!

I know this is a completely different subject, but between her websites journal, and her posts on fauna.... I dont even know how she thinks it's ok to sell any for the next years.

On her journal, she said some things that directly contradict her posts on fauna.... I just dont know what to think. :(

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I know this is a completely different subject, but between her websites journal, and her posts on fauna.... I dont even know how she thinks it's ok to sell any for the next years.

On her journal, she said some things that directly contradict her posts on fauna.... I just dont know what to think. :(

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KS allows people with no real world experience to basically read then regurgitate information shared to them through other forums and even KS forums. It is easy to appear like an expert over there and for that matter just about anywhere it is only through true longevity that real experience is learned and earned. Many of the Honorable people that had plausible information have been driven away from KS and it has been left with a lot of BS artists. There are real breeders that take the time to post pics but there is only so many times these same breeders answer the same questions day after day but this is were the problem lays.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I know this is a completely different subject, but between her websites journal, and her posts on fauna.... I dont even know how she thinks it's ok to sell any for the next years.

On her journal, she said some things that directly contradict her posts on fauna.... I just dont know what to think. :(

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I'm left with more questions than answers myself about her. I'm shocked to hear she's sold some of the animals that went through this, just as shocked as I was when she purchased a clown male at the Tinley show and had it breeding one of her females in a month's time.

I agree that some things she says contradicts herself - I'm sorry she dealt with all that - but I feel she has a lot of culpability herself. And she's buying more animals and QTing them at her vet tech. Does she know for sure that the problem isn't environmental vs. something that was passed from one snake to another?

Again - I've got more questions than answers from what happened to her - I couldn't believe that not only was she selling offspring, but stating in her ad that she was selling them for higer than market value because of their quality. :confused:

I apologize for detouring this thread as it is about someone else, but someone mentioned to me that I had been brought up here, so I thought I would come clear a few things up.

#1 -- I never sold a single snake that was sick or a snake that was here during this ordeal. They are all still here (what's left). Jas, you need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth.

#2 -- I did not purposely breed my snakes during the ordeal. I bred them before the virus came in and in the very beginning days when it was still being assumed as a regular routine bacterial RI by my first vet (back in September/October). I stopped all breeding shortly thereafter as learned it was a virus, but the few females I had left continued to ovulate in January/February anyway. Not much I could do to stop that.

#3 -- The minute I saw the above mentioned females ovulate, I repeatedly asked every vet working on this case (including Dr. Jacobsen in Florida -- who is THE leading veterinarian researcher on OPMV) if it would be safe to incubate the eggs or if they should be discarded. Each and every time I got the same answer -- yes, the eggs would be fine, as the virus doesn't transmit from mother to embryo. So, when they were laid, I asked them one more time -- got the same answer -- and kept them.

#4 -- As details came out about the virus, transmittal methods (airborne via fluid particles, not remotely environmental), incubation periods for antibody development, and infectious periods, I was given the all clear to begin rebuilding with new snakes selectively after it had been over 60 days since the last death/active symptom. The virus is only contagious when there is an actively symptomatic snake present -- and since they all died (save for 2 that we treated with double antibiotics and the imported vaccine, and subsequently are healed), the infectious period was considered over by my vet team. I was also given the all clear to sell my babies by all 3 reptile-specific vets involved (the two working on my case and the third that was Wyatt's other victim), as they would not have been able to inherit the virus genetically, and were not alive during the time that any sick snakes were present. They have all subsequently been vaccinated upon hatching as well as all remaining adults in my collection that were in the quarantined group that never got sick in the first place. We followed the exact protocol that other OPMV cases in Europe followed, and those collections have been virus-free ever since. I wouldn't be selling this clutch of babies if I felt there were any risk to anyone else. When I am told by the one person that knows and understands this virus better than anyone on the planet (Dr. Jacobsen) that the babies are just fine, I tend to believe him. If others don't feel as comfortable and would not want to purchase from me -- that is entirely their right and I wouldn't hold that against anyone. That is why I've been so open about the entire ordeal, so that everyone in our hobby is aware of what can happen, and so that potential customers of mine know what I went through. The remaining adults that I have that were segregated in my room and avoided becoming ill may or may not be carriers -- there is no way to tell. All were vaccinated, and based on previous history with this virus, this should have stopped the infectious spread. If they do carry it, none are infectious or contagious unless they flare up at some point and become sick. It is dormant until then -- not transmittable. For this reason I will never, EVER sell or otherwise give up ownership of any of those animals. They will never leave my posession. As explained to me by my vet team, they are still safely breedable and any new additions to my collection and offspring produced will remain virus-free so long as it remains dormant in the founding animals. Everything I bring in now has a mandatory 3-month quarantine in a separate room -- I turned my bedroom into a quarantine room and rat breeding room (much to the dismay of my husband, but I don't care). I will only buy from a select handful of people I know well -- my trust for others has been destroyed.

#5 -- This was brought up elsewhere: That some are bothered by the fact that I didn't wipe out the rest of my animals and start completely over. Or in their terms, "cull" them. My answer to that is this -- my collection is not just breeding stock. They are my pets, including the two that mean the most to me that started this entire hobby. If I had lost them to the virus, I would have given up and never kept another snake. In following what other veterinary professionals and other keepers did in Europe when facing this same event, there was no viable reason in either my mind nor my vet team's minds to destroy all the animals when the vaccine was proven time and time again to stop the virus dead in its tracks and prevent all further spread/illness, even 5 years later. We obtained this vaccine from a vet in Germany and used it in the exact same method as proven by others. If one of the remaining animals in my collection flares up again at any given point in the remainder of its life, then I will shut down my collection once more and will no longer be breeding. There is no reason to kill them when they still would be just fine as pets if the situation calls for it.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone by my decisions or actions, but I made them based on sound information given to me by professional that know far better than any of us in this hobby. If you don't trust their info and don't want to buy from me -- I totally understand. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to e-mail me.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

#4 -- As details came out about the virus, transmittal methods (airborne via fluid particles, not remotely environmental), incubation periods for antibody development, and infectious periods, I was given the all clear to begin rebuilding with new snakes selectively after it had been over 60 days since the last death/active symptom. The virus is only contagious when there is an actively symptomatic snake present -- and since they all died (save for 2 that we treated with double antibiotics and the imported vaccine, and subsequently are healed), the infectious period was considered over by my vet team. I was also given the all clear to sell my babies by all 3 reptile-specific vets involved (the two working on my case and the third that was Wyatt's other victim), as they would not have been able to inherit the virus genetically, and were not alive during the time that any sick snakes were present. They have all subsequently been vaccinated upon hatching as well as all remaining adults in my collection that were in the quarantined group that never got sick in the first place. We followed the exact protocol that other OPMV cases in Europe followed, and those collections have been virus-free ever since. I wouldn't be selling this clutch of babies if I felt there were any risk to anyone else. When I am told by the one person that knows and understands this virus better than anyone on the planet (Dr. Jacobsen) that the babies are just fine, I tend to believe him.

The remaining adults that I have that were segregated in my room and avoided becoming ill may or may not be carriers -- there is no way to tell. All were vaccinated, and based on previous history with this virus, this should have stopped the infectious spread.

If they do carry it, none are infectious or contagious unless they flare up at some point and become sick. It is dormant until then -- not transmittable.

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This is what scares me.

In your posting, you've said in no uncertain terms that the animals your selling have been vaccinated, but were never infected.

That's fine and all, but you also said that any subsequent births or purchases will remain virus free, unless one of the original infected animals infection is no longer dormant.

That doesn't seem like a leak proof guarantee to me, and frankly it scares me.

You've said that the virus cannot be transmitted in the body from mother to egg.

BUT, you have no guarantee that the virus is not being carried by any other animals in a dormant state, meaning, this virus could become active and shed just in time for another non vaccinated animal to become infected. God forbid this happens, but you simply cannot guarantee that at this time.

If this were a closed colony, with the upmost strictest quarantine and no cross contamination, I might be able to view this in a better light.

But the fact that there are simply no guarantees at this point in time is pretty scary.

If I had any of that wrong, please explain, I'm just reading what you posted. It does make me nervous, along with many others that those original animals that were around during the outbreak are still being housed near your new collection (meaning, in the same facility).

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I apologize for detouring this thread as it is about someone else, but someone mentioned to me that I had been brought up here, so I thought I would come clear a few things up.

#1 -- I never sold a single snake that was sick or a snake that was here during this ordeal. They are all still here (what's left). Jas, you need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth.

#2 -- I did not purposely breed my snakes during the ordeal. I bred them before the virus came in and in the very beginning days when it was still being assumed as a regular routine bacterial RI by my first vet (back in September/October). I stopped all breeding shortly thereafter as learned it was a virus, but the few females I had left continued to ovulate in January/February anyway. Not much I could do to stop that.

#3 -- The minute I saw the above mentioned females ovulate, I repeatedly asked every vet working on this case (including Dr. Jacobsen in Florida -- who is THE leading veterinarian researcher on OPMV) if it would be safe to incubate the eggs or if they should be discarded. Each and every time I got the same answer -- yes, the eggs would be fine, as the virus doesn't transmit from mother to embryo. So, when they were laid, I asked them one more time -- got the same answer -- and kept them.

#4 -- As details came out about the virus, transmittal methods (airborne via fluid particles, not remotely environmental), incubation periods for antibody development, and infectious periods, I was given the all clear to begin rebuilding with new snakes selectively after it had been over 60 days since the last death/active symptom. The virus is only contagious when there is an actively symptomatic snake present -- and since they all died (save for 2 that we treated with double antibiotics and the imported vaccine, and subsequently are healed), the infectious period was considered over by my vet team. I was also given the all clear to sell my babies by all 3 reptile-specific vets involved (the two working on my case and the third that was Wyatt's other victim), as they would not have been able to inherit the virus genetically, and were not alive during the time that any sick snakes were present. They have all subsequently been vaccinated upon hatching as well as all remaining adults in my collection that were in the quarantined group that never got sick in the first place. We followed the exact protocol that other OPMV cases in Europe followed, and those collections have been virus-free ever since. I wouldn't be selling this clutch of babies if I felt there were any risk to anyone else. When I am told by the one person that knows and understands this virus better than anyone on the planet (Dr. Jacobsen) that the babies are just fine, I tend to believe him. If others don't feel as comfortable and would not want to purchase from me -- that is entirely their right and I wouldn't hold that against anyone. That is why I've been so open about the entire ordeal, so that everyone in our hobby is aware of what can happen, and so that potential customers of mine know what I went through. The remaining adults that I have that were segregated in my room and avoided becoming ill may or may not be carriers -- there is no way to tell. All were vaccinated, and based on previous history with this virus, this should have stopped the infectious spread. If they do carry it, none are infectious or contagious unless they flare up at some point and become sick. It is dormant until then -- not transmittable. For this reason I will never, EVER sell or otherwise give up ownership of any of those animals. They will never leave my posession. As explained to me by my vet team, they are still safely breedable and any new additions to my collection and offspring produced will remain virus-free so long as it remains dormant in the founding animals. Everything I bring in now has a mandatory 3-month quarantine in a separate room -- I turned my bedroom into a quarantine room and rat breeding room (much to the dismay of my husband, but I don't care). I will only buy from a select handful of people I know well -- my trust for others has been destroyed.

#5 -- This was brought up elsewhere: That some are bothered by the fact that I didn't wipe out the rest of my animals and start completely over. Or in their terms, "cull" them. My answer to that is this -- my collection is not just breeding stock. They are my pets, including the two that mean the most to me that started this entire hobby. If I had lost them to the virus, I would have given up and never kept another snake. In following what other veterinary professionals and other keepers did in Europe when facing this same event, there was no viable reason in either my mind nor my vet team's minds to destroy all the animals when the vaccine was proven time and time again to stop the virus dead in its tracks and prevent all further spread/illness, even 5 years later. We obtained this vaccine from a vet in Germany and used it in the exact same method as proven by others. If one of the remaining animals in my collection flares up again at any given point in the remainder of its life, then I will shut down my collection once more and will no longer be breeding. There is no reason to kill them when they still would be just fine as pets if the situation calls for it.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone by my decisions or actions, but I made them based on sound information given to me by professional that know far better than any of us in this hobby. If you don't trust their info and don't want to buy from me -- I totally understand. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to e-mail me.

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Here's the things jen.

Suppose one of your carriers starts shedding the virus while you have babies for sale. You don't know he's shedding it because his health has not yet begun to deteriorate.

You have a mess of babies on their way out to other homes with other snakes.

Do you see the problem here?

Unless you can 100% guarentee that there is NO possibility of infection, you should NOT be selling anything.

Buy all you want, it's your nickle you're spending but to put someone elses project or livlihood in jeapordy, because the leading vets say it SHOULD be ok, is, simply put, reprehensible.

You are basically saying that you are ok with taking a chance that someone else will have to go through what you did.

Sorry Chica, but that's wrong.

Pets or not, you should either remove the snakes you have, for sure the two from the original batch and maybe even all the rest, from whatever facility you wish to sell out of and either keep them totally seperate FOREVER, never breeding, or destroy them.

The fact that you are selling takes the emotional attachment you have for them right out of the picture for your customers. You need to grow up and stop making excuses for why you're keeping them.

Also, unless your bedroom is airtight it's not a proper quarentine. You have had this discussion with several others in the past.

And last but not least, if people are donating snakes to you to replace the ones that died, while you are within your rights, they would be yours once you recieved them, to sell them, don't you think it's sort of a sucky thing to do?

All the vaccinations in the world don't mean diddly if there is ANY chance at all of whatever your snakes had of coming back and infecting ANY other snake, be it one you're keeping or one you're selling.

Split posts from http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=65971

Can some bring up the whole ordeal with her? Im not sure what this sickness is so im a little lost yet id like to follow this thread.

IBD, I believe...

"#1 -- I never sold a single snake that was sick or a snake that was here during this ordeal. They are all still here (what's left). Jas, you need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth."

Didnt sell but posted an ad to sell them?? I'll open my mouth when ever I want to! Thanks...

Not IBD...

Here is the link.

LOOOOOOOONG Read.

Kinda starts here... You can read from the beginning though.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ighlight=Wyatt

http://pinkladyconstrictors.com/?page_id=20

i think this is the story off of her page

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Not IBD...

Here is the link.

LOOOOOOOONG Read.

Kinda starts here... You can read from the beginning though.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ighlight=Wyatt

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Ah, ok! Thanks, Heather :gj:

No - not IBD

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=99539

Deleted link that Heather had already provided!

You know when I clicked on the Jen Harrison link on the BOI - I truly was hoping that I wasn't going to read that she was buying or selling snakes - this soon. And I am frankly appalled that she is -- but I am not surprised - with the lies she told throughout the ordeal as well as some other stuff that came up afterwards -- well I just get the impression her integrity is compromised.

Her own expert suggests that its possible to have asymptomatic carriers and that nothing should go in or out of a collection for at least one if not two years following the last death. Now all of a sudden it's ok for her to sell of those babies?!?!?! They should never have been incubated in the first place. If it were me I'd honestly either keep the remaining ones as pets and never breed again or cull them and move before starting over -- but that's just me.

At this point I'm having a real hard time believing what she says. And I have a hard time understanding her justifications. JMO.

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If others don't feel as comfortable and would not want to purchase from me -- that is entirely their right and I wouldn't hold that against anyone. That is why I've been so open about the entire ordeal, so that everyone in our hobby is aware of what can happen, and so that potential customers of mine know what I went through.

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I wonder will the customers of your customers be aware of the ordeal? Do you think your customers will disclose this kind of info to their potential buyers if they breed someday?

lol... im sorry for laughin on this matter, i just finished readin the other thread and its just funny how the tables have turned...and now she is the one on the hot seat....

What is concerning to me is how quickly she's re-building her collection and QTing in her bedroom again. I read here that she's added at least 14 new ball pythons in the last month and several colubrids. It just seems super fast after all she just went through.

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forum...ad.php?t=22170

It's just sick - she's even picked up some females from a pet store and is selling them cheap on the SK forum :rolleyes: And the idiots are cheering on her rebuilding efforts :O

this is horrible news.

reprehensible decision to take chances with possibly sending this virus (or worse yet a drug-morphed version) out into the population.

at least typhoid mary didn't know she had a problem.
no such excuse here.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

What is concerning to me is how quickly she's re-building her collection and QTing in her bedroom again. I read here that she's added at least 14 new ball pythons in the last month and several colubrids. It just seems super fast after all she just went through.

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/forum...ad.php?t=22170

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Jen, is a piece of trash like I always said!! I'll take my points now..

Don't hold back, Jas. Let us know how you really feel;)

You mean to tell me she is getting animals donated to her?
Those are top end animals? With the chance of infection at her place! WTH?

Is it true that she is actually selling animals that were donated?

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

It's just sick - she's even picked up some females from a pet store and is selling them cheap on the SK forum :rolleyes: And the idiots are cheering on her rebuilding efforts :O

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I'm sorry but she needs to stop taking in new animals and selling animals!

Who said I'm selling donated animals? I haven't recieved anything from anyone yet, and I would never sell something that was given to me. I don't know where that came from. :confused:

Jas, my ad was for offspring deemed clear by my vet team. Not for any of the animals that were here during the infectious period. So, I have not been selling sick animals as you say.

Tosha, you feel that the eggs should never have been incubated. Opinions are like...well, you know that whole line.

Wes, when everyone first shredded me for quarantining in a separate rack but same room, I was repeatedly berated and told it had to be a different room altogether (which I had to learn the hard way). Now when I decide to actually do exactly that and use a different room, I'm being told that that isn't correct either? So what about the hundreds of other keepers whose home-based breeding efforts have quarantines set up in extra rooms? I guarantee you only a handful of people that breed snakes have an entirely separate building to quarantine in. You tell me to "grow up and stop making excuses for why I'm keeping them" -- there are no excuses. I'm selling the offspring that I hadn't intended on producing and that I was told would be PERFECTLY HEALTHY. I'm not attached to these babies -- they don't even have names. But the adults that I decided not to unnecessarily kill do have a lot of emotional meaning for me, and I don't in any way find that immature or an excuse.

As for why I'm rebuilding and buying selective new snakes -- BECAUSE MY VETS TOLD ME IT WAS JUST FINE TO DO SO. Why would I not listen to them when they're top in their field? From Dr. Jacobsen's article on OPMV:

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There is no specific treatment for snakes showing clinical signs of OPMV infection. Since most affected snakes die with severe gram-negative respiratory tract infections, treating ill snakes with appropriate antibiotics is indicated. 2 months should lapse following the last death from OPMV before introducing new animals. The aminoglycosides, gentamin and amikacin, in combination with a cephalosporin such as ceftazidime [what we used], are the drugs of choice. Cages of ill snakes should be cleaned and completely disinfected with a solution of 0.15% sodium hypochlorite. Chlorox is 5.25% sodium hypochlorite; a 1:33 dilution can be used. Cages should remain empty for at least 2 weeks before introduction new animals. [all of which was done repeatedly -- all tubs were discarded and new ones purchased]

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If the information given by 3 reptile vets isn't valid enough for the handful of people here (despite being more than enough for plenty of other people that have been contacting me about this and supporting me), then I don't know what I can do for you. This has been the hardest damn thing I have ever gone through -- and regardless of the right paths I try to take by throwing thousands of dollars at veterinary research to get this nailed down and proven while everyone else that got it hides it and gets to continue on unscathed (right down to Wyatt and his loser girlfriend still being allowed to post ads for their infected snakes on Kingsnake, but I'm banned), and getting my vets' confirmation multiple times before doing anything like bringing in new animals or selling babies, I'm still wrong no matter what and thrown into dog cage. I have pulled all of my ads and notified the people that had reserved my babies. I am not selling any of them. At this point, I don't know what to do any more. I don't have the resources to completely separate my remaining established animals from any new ones (all new additions are already in quarantine in my bedroom -- in entirely new racks, tubs, with new heating equipment, everything. Nothing else is in that room except the new snakes), because apparently 2 different rooms wouldn't be good enough, even when there is no longer any active infections within my first collection. I don't have the resources to start all over again with snakes, regardless of what people say they're going to "donate" to me, because no one is going to give me an 800g male clown or my perfect golden spider male or the 600g g-stripe that has been here on breeding loan this entire time. And I do not have the heart to kill my 2 beloved pets that I was so terrified of losing in the first place -- Spoon and Lucky mean the world to me and I cannot bear the idea of not having them. I will not accept that. The things I've been buying recently have been a couple new ball pythons but mostly kingsnakes. My vets said that they'll be safe as this was obviously a ball python strain -- but according to the wolf pack here, I'm sure my vets are wrong on that too. Maybe I should just kill everything and sue Wyatt for every last penny I've sunk into vet bills and lost in all the dead animals. Like I'd really see anything on that...I won't see squat, and it wouldn't make this any easier anyway.

Since everyone here seems to have opinions, why don't you all tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do? You're the ones I have to deal with if I want to continue in this hobby, so tell me what would make you feel confident in me and my animals?

Lets look at it this way...

You are your own customer, and you are willing to take the responsibility of buying an animal that may possibly die and carry a deadly virus. THEN!!! A few months later, it does die, and all of the rest of your collection dies as well.

You are lost, upset, furious at the world..

Sound familiar? How would you feel if you inflicted that on someone else?

That risk has been eliminated.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I have pulled all of my ads and notified the people that had reserved my babies. I am not selling any of them.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

That risk has been eliminated.

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Jen, it has NOT been eliminated so long as any animal comes from you.

Even your own vets have said SHOULD NOT, not WILL NEVER, in regards to your snakes shedding the virus again.

Two rooms in the same building, seperated by a door that is not airtight is the same as keeping them side by side.

You asked, so here it is.

EVERY ball python you had, have or will have in the next season should be removed to another building for at LEAST two years or destroyed. You cannot say DEFINITIVELY that nothing will come from your snakes.

You skate on the edge of the line to justify what you do and in this case, where an outbreak could do to others what was done to you, it is inexcusable.

It sucks but you know, deep down, that the above is the ONLY way to really make sure your snakes are safe.

Just like some have done with IBD in boas, euthanizing entire collections including otherwise healthy snakes to PROTECT OTHER KEEPERS, so should you do now.

You asked. I answered. I am not happy to have the opinion I do, but it is mine. The poopy end of the stick is no fun, but you've got both hands on it right now. Keep it and be known for smelly fingers or let it go and build again.

The first option is not possible, so the second option it has to be I guess. You're right, to protect others. I will not be rebuilding.

Jen, what happened to your vet tech friend who was going to be where you quarantined new animals, in a completely different location?

Also, have you scanned the reports from your vets that identified what this virus is, it's pathology and treatment? I've only read what you've said they've said - but I don't recall actually getting to read a detailed finding from these three vets you're working with. That's troubling to me as well, since we can only go on what you say they've said.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I don't have the resources to start all over again with snakes, regardless of what people say they're going to "donate" to me, because no one is going to give me an 800g male clown

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When did Hollywood die? I was pretty sure I read he was one of the survivors?

it seems like a simple solution to me - just don't breed for at least a couple of years.

if you need the money, do something else for awhile.

it sucks that this happened to you, but life is often a real bear.

Jen,
To answer your question, I have heard from a few people that you have been given expensive morphs for free to help rebuild your collection as well as normals and have sold some of them.


BTW,
What happened with KS? Why were you banned from there?

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

it seems like a simple solution to me - just don't breed for at least a couple of years.

if you need the money, do something else for awhile.

it sucks that this happened to you, but life is often a real bear.

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I should have said 'don't breed or flip for at least a couple of years'

There you go again - :rolleyes: You stated in your blog that the Dr.s now think this is something new - yet there you are with your absolutes based on something this is not. :rofl: Awfully big of you to take chances with other peoples collections.

If your collection is sooooo safe why did you vaccinate the babies? Why are you supposedly vaccinating everything coming in? And what happen to you were only going to get animals from 3 or 4 select breeders or people whos collections you could see?

Why isn't anybody lambasting the guy who sold the infected animal to Jen in the first place and is still selling reptiles? Has knowingly infected more than one collection. Why isn't anybody going after that guy, instead of someone who has made every thing quite public? Just seems kind of screwed up to be throwing stones at someone who has put everything out there for the entire reptile community to see, but ignore the originator of the entire problem who refuses to acknowledge he did anything wrong or that there is a problem. Just a thought you might want to consider.

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Originally Posted by FloridaHogs

Why isn't anybody lambasting the guy who sold the infected animal to Jen in the first place and is still selling reptiles? Has knowingly infected more than one collection. Why isn't anybody going after that guy, instead of someone who has made every thing quite public? Just seems kind of screwed up to be throwing stones at someone who has put everything out there for the entire reptile community to see, but ignore the originator of the entire problem who refuses to acknowledge he did anything wrong or that there is a problem. Just a thought you might want to consider.

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Open mouth, insert feet.

Go to fauna.

Do a search on wyatt in texas.

No one has let him slide.

Tosha, you obviously haven't read the whole blog. That went out the window when the info came out about the delay of antibody development -- it nullified the negative test result and still left it wide open that it is OPMV.

Steve, I haven't recieved a single donated animal...or anything for that matter. I have 2 (a hypo mojave and yellowbelly) that I was told are mine from Dan and Colette, but they are still caring for them right now. They aren't here. You can check with them on that one. The others that have offered to donate are Brian Barcyk (BHB - hope I didn't destroy the last name spelling), Jon Dvoretz, Larry Suttles, and Cory @ Bradford Cole. I have chatted with all of them a bit but no one has sent me anything. I haven't sold a single snake since last year before this all began? People reserved my mojave babies but they haven't left my posession -- which is why I was able to cancel it.

As for the vet reports, I don't have them. They are still with Dr. Jacobsen's lab and the Marshfield Clinic (the lab that does Dr. Gordon's work). I have asked repeatedly to get written/printed copies of everything, but it takes weeks to just get a phone call back from Elliot -- paperwork is probably going to be a long time coming. Dr. Gordon keeps saying he'll get to it every time I call -- but he's been extremely busy and just hasn't yet.

No, Hollywood was one of the unaffected ones that were segregated. He is just fine, eating and being his normal self. But everyone here keeps saying that those animals can't be trusted, regardless of having been unaffected and vaccinated, so they need to be destroyed. Thus, I will lose him and won't be able to get another. That's why I said that.

Why do I continue to vaccinate the babies and all newcomers? As a precaution -- the same reason I vaccinate my daughter.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

Tosha, you obviously haven't read the whole blog. That went out the window when the info came out about the delay of antibody development -- it nullified the negative test result and still left it wide open that it is OPMV.

Steve, I haven't recieved a single donated animal...or anything for that matter. I have 2 (a hypo mojave and yellowbelly) that I was told are mine from Dan and Colette, but they are still caring for them right now. They aren't here. You can check with them on that one. The others that have offered to donate are Brian Barcyk (BHB - hope I didn't destroy the last name spelling), Jon Dvoretz, Larry Suttles, and Cory @ Bradford Cole. I have chatted with all of them a bit but no one has sent me anything. I haven't sold a single snake since last year before this all began? People reserved my mojave babies but they haven't left my posession -- which is why I was able to cancel it.

As for the vet reports, I don't have them. They are still with Dr. Jacobsen's lab and the Marshfield Clinic (the lab that does Dr. Gordon's work). I have asked repeatedly to get written/printed copies of everything, but it takes weeks to just get a phone call back from Elliot -- paperwork is probably going to be a long time coming. Dr. Gordon keeps saying he'll get to it every time I call -- but he's been extremely busy and just hasn't yet.

No, Hollywood was one of the unaffected ones that were segregated. He is just fine, eating and being his normal self. But everyone here keeps saying that those animals can't be trusted, regardless of having been unaffected and vaccinated, so they need to be destroyed. Thus, I will lose him and won't be able to get another. That's why I said that.

Why do I continue to vaccinate the babies and all newcomers? As a precaution -- the same reason I vaccinate my daughter.

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Honestly, I dont see the need to kill your snakes, just keep your own collection to yourself, dont breed, dont sell any snakes at all, and if you want to build up your collection again after all the snakes your have right now have passed from old age. No need to guilt people into feeling sorry that you "have" to destroy your clown and others, just keep your collection to yourself and dont come in contact with any other snakes. Problem solved, right?

In 30 years, when they all die, I'll most likely be finished with school and will have a career -- no time or space to start up a snake collection from scratch. Aside from that, I don't have the will or the energy to start over. After losing the animals that I worked so hard to get and felt attached to -- I don't have the desire to put that kind of time, money, and effort into doing it again.

I forgot to answer two things in the last post -- whoever asked me about Kari, the vet tech -- her husband said "No way in hell" is she going to be allowed to keep any snakes in the house. And whoever said something about it being about the money -- it definitely isn't, not after I'm so far in the hole that I can't even see the exit any more. I decided to breed snakes so I could trade them off for other things I wanted -- maybe earn a couple bucks to put back into their maintenance costs. I work 2 jobs and sell vintage jewelry on Ebay -- I earn plenty of money for our family. The snakes had nothing to do with that.

So just keep the snakes you have now! Maybe you will feel differently in 30 years time, you never know.

And for the person that PM'd me this:

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You should lay low for a little way-------change email accounts and come up with a new business name---------on your site don't give detailed info on where you are from-------these pathetic s will never let it go--------wait till the boards have lots of inventory on them------then slip on in.

in the mean time-------you can start new names on boards to help build up a new rep---------as long as you have not been banned, your alright-------if you have been banned from places---------change your internet provider so you have a new isp-----then you won't get red flag in those boards systems. find someone else to put their credit/debit through to get back on kingsnake.

just my opinion.

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That's an extremely pathetic, low-life thing to do. That's what Wyatt did -- and I'm not stooping to his level.

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Originally Posted by JenHarrison

And for the person that PM'd me this:



That's an extremely pathetic, low-life thing to do. That's what Wyatt did -- and I'm not stooping to his level.

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Wow!!!:mad: Pathetic is right.