Questions for ASF breeders

Here are some questions for ASF breeders

I have a small rat room and square inch is important, so not to waste any space I house my feeder colony in a racks.

I plan on doing the same with ASF as I entertain the idea of a colony that would be anywhere from 3.12 to 6.24

I plan on using tubs that are 22¼ X 16¾ X 6¾ so it will allow me to have a wheel inside each tubs to keep them busy and avoid chewing.

Now here are the questions: Are they like mice will they climb up side down to eat the food through the hardware cloth and drink from a valve like this http://www.agselect.com/ED/showdetl....D=179&CATID=12?

Is using a watering system even a possibility with them?

They are not as good as mice are with the climbing up-side down thing....I just use shallow tubs so they can reach the food and water.....water systems are fine to use with them as long as they can reach them......they are dumb sometimes:)
Hope this helps..

long reply.

Yes. They will walk on the screen, and eat upside down.

I would not use a watering system. they consume 1 /4 of the water that rats or mice consume. with such little drinking, unless you are going to start profesionally breeding, I would say it would be better to just use glass water bottles.

I don't have the exact setup you are talking about.... but I have tanks with DIY food hoppers. 1/4 inch hardware cloth feeding mazuri 6f. they have NO problem feeding from the hoppers, and often use them to climb to the top screen where they walk around upside down. Often times they will eat from the bottom of the hopper, and that is the same thing as eating from a rack top.

HOWEVER! I would caution you big time when it comes to putting these things in racks. They have the most nipples in the rodent family. They are also one of the BEST CHEWERS! On my 10 gallon tanks. they have litterally eaten away the black hard plastic tab around the enitre top of the tanks. (they still can't get out, but it demonstrates the chewing abilitly.) I put cut pieces of 2x4's in with them at all times. they will take a brick shaped piece and litterally try to make it into a ball shape. most of them like to chew on the actual steel wires of the hopper. none have been able to break it yet, but they sure are trying. The adult females are litterally pregnant constantly. the moment they give birth, they are re pregnated. They can go days without any food or water, and normaly eat and drink VERY little anyway. After they have children, they will attack anything that threatens them.... not run and hide, but lunge out and attack!

All these things can lead to disaster if you have a chew out. Much more so then rats and mice. All I am saying is you have to give this situation serious consideration before putting them into racks.

Lets say you have a chew out in one of your tubs. 1 male and 3 females escape. THAT is a MAJOR problem! that is 3 pregnant females! each of them are about to have 10 babies! You have a male loose that will immediately impregnate the females once they do have the babies! I know you said they are in a snake room... but trust me. they will find a way out in little time. either they will queeze under the door.... run out when you open the door (b4 you even realize there is a problem) or they will bite their way into a wall. remember, they will be fine for a couple days without any food or water, and only need to find a tiny bit of each to thrive.

One more thought. I am familiar with your rat racks, and love the designs. BUT, ASF's are INCREDIBLE JUMPERS when they are startled. I had one jump OUT of a 10 gallon tank once when startled. with control he jumped and landed perfectly on the top rim of the tank. that leads me to believe he could have probably jumped higher then that. every time you open those racks (that are only 6 inches high) you could have a problem. when their are babies in the tank, the male will litteraly jump across the entire tank to bite me. in your racks, he would litteraly be able to jump right out and attach himself to my belly!

Maybe wait and see how much they change after your first rounds of babies????

mike

Deborah,
We have been keeping our colony in racks for the last year, with no problems. Most of our groups are in mouse racks that have small kitty ltter pans, and they seem to do great. We have never had a problem with them eating food above them, or had any problems with them drinking out of a Vari-flow valve stem. We do have our feeding group in a CB-70 sized rodent tub rack, and they do fine in there as well. Being that that tub is deeper (6.5 inches), we put a 2x4 block under the sipper so that they can reach it easier.

As Mike stated, they do breed very efficiently, so we typically keep the males and females seperated, until we are ready for a few litters.

I hope some of that was helpful.

one more thought...

Remember guys and gals. it only takes a few of these getting out.... reproducing... and making it into the local news. Before they are completely and totally banned in the United States. Trust me, sooner or later it is going to happen. You think people freak out about a loose snake that will over run the country? imagine the panic when they hear about the attacking ASF's, that can tolerate a much larger temperature range then a snake. and it has the most nipples (i believe in all mammals). I can see the headlines now!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

Deborah,
We have been keeping our colony in racks for the last year, with no problems. Most of our groups are in mouse racks that have small kitty ltter pans, and they seem to do great. We have never had a problem with them eating food above them, or had any problems with them drinking out of a Vari-flow valve stem. We do have our feeding group in a CB-70 sized rodent tub rack, and they do fine in there as well. Being that that tub is deeper (6.5 inches), we put a 2x4 block under the sipper so that they can reach it easier.

As Mike stated, they do breed very efficiently, so we typically keep the males and females seperated, until we are ready for a few litters.

I hope some of that was helpful.

---

That's excatly what I wanted to hear before I start building the new rack, thanks Tim

Quote:

---

I would not use a watering system.

---

Well I probably will because the rack will be a 12 tubs rack (2 across and 6 down) top 3 to 4 levels will they regular rats to 2 to 3 levels will be for ASF (not sure yet are many tubs will be dedicated to ASF

Quote:

---

HOWEVER! I would caution you big time when it comes to putting these things in racks. They have the most nipples in the rodent family. They are also one of the BEST CHEWERS!

---

I am aware of that fact which is why they are provided with a piece of wood and a wheel in their temporary tub (So far no chewing they've been TOO busy).

I just cannot afford having glass tank everywhere if I want to save space and be efficient on cleaning day.

Thanks for the feedback.

I've read over on the asf forums people having very good success with the tubs in a rack set up. I look forward to seeing what the Queen of Rodent Racks builds. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I've read over on the asf forums people having very good success with the tubs in a rack set up. I look forward to seeing what the Queen of Rodent Racks builds. :gj:

---

You want to come and help me build it ;)

I am just done finishing a Birthing Rat rack, I have to get started on an BP hatchling rack and I have to start the new Rat/ASF rack.

If only my hubby was handy, I could give him directions and he could do the work :8:

As mcavana mentions, chew-out could be a problem in racks.

Mine have chewed off the plastic at the top of the aquariums too.

I built shelves above some snake racks, and keep 10 20-gallon aquariums in space I wasn't otherwise using.

Temperment varies. Mine are biters, but not the killing machines mcavana is raising. They seem to be getting mellower over time now that they're all used to my presence.

The only issues I've had with thinking about racking our ASF's is chewing and the worry the darn things will actually hop right out when I slide a tub open. I cannot believe how high these little things can jump when they set their mind to it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

The only issues I've had with thinking about racking our ASF's is chewing and the worry the darn things will actually hop right out when I slide a tub open. I cannot believe how high these little things can jump when they set their mind to it!

---

The ones I have are in my rat rack right now (temporary measure) and they are doing great, no chewing (to busy with their wheel) and are not jumpy at all.

As far as tub chewing and rodents I notice that the main mistake people often make is either provide tubs with a ridge or allowing too big of a gap between the tub and the frame.

The ASF will likely stay in the temporary tub for a month or so before I start building a new rack so I guess by than I should know for sure which route I will chose.

Oh another DIY for ASF's I hope! :banana:

You know Deb Toledo's a lovely city, great zoo, you would love to move here (and build me a whole bunch of rodents racks!)

:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh another DIY for ASF's I hope! :banana:

You know Deb Toledo's a lovely city, great zoo, you would love to move here (and build me a whole bunch of rodents racks!):D

---

Too cold, I enjoy the soutern weather too much ;)

Okay fine then! I'll just move south! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

The ones I have are in my rat rack right now (temporary measure) and they are doing great, no chewing (to busy with their wheel) and are not jumpy at all.

---

Deborah,
Be careful with the wheel in you ASF tank. They are too busy to chew out because of the wheel, but they also may be too busy to breed. We had a 1.2 group in a tank when we first got them (there was a wheel in there with them). We also had a 1.2 group in a tub,. The group in the tub was on their second litters before we noticed anything in the tank (we had also removed the wheel before we got any action). So, it may be wise to take the wheel out if you want to have any offspring.

Just my two cents.

I don't have a rack but I got 1:2 asf's a few months ago. I was worried about chewouts so all my tubs I simply use 1/4" hardware cloth to line my tubs bottom and put my bedding on top of the mesh. It makes it a bit more work but I am 100% sure they won't chew out. I did have one male excape. They are FAST!!! I could NOT catch him but my cat did. They have reproduced like crazy! I have 3 litters in a 10 gallon size tub and today I am making a bigger cage so they have more room. I have had rats and mice and never seen such fast reproduction. I have their lab block in a 1/2 x 1/2 mesh hopper and they are fine eating out of that. I also have a wheel and they LOVE it. I also have a few hides for them. My new cage is going to have two wheels and two levels and will be entirely out of 1/4 x 1/4 mesh. They CAN get out of 1/2 x 1/2 (the little ones). The babies are SMALL SMALL!

I have never let them go without food or water but do know tempature is important. They don't reproduce or like the cold very much. It WILL kill them if it gets too cold.

As far as temperment mine seem to be ok. I have one female that will run to the top of her cage when she sees me because she knows she will get a treat. Now keep in mind I do treat them with extream caution. I just feed my fisrt 3 males and didn't have a problem (except one male getting excaping me. He didn't bite just jumped and in an eyeblink he was GONE) Today will be a test as I will be moving ALL of them to their new home.

You need need my (patent pending) big empty margarine tub ASF catcher! LOL It sounds silly but it worked for the two escapees we've had. If you know where the little rat went to hide block all escape routes but one. Wedge the margine tub in there open end to the rat making sure something is on top of the tub so it can't get over it. Slap your hand or stomp heavily on the opposite side of the rat. Darn things will dash right into the margine tub figuring it's a safe dark hide. Bingo! Flip the tub, slam on the lid FAST and you have one ASF handily caught without you getting bit or the rat getting hurt.

I use a brand of margarine that comes in a sort of brown colored tub so it's really nice and dark and they think they are running to safety. *evil laugh*

Tim, how odd yours wouldn't breed with a wheel in there. All our colonies have wheels and they seem to manage the deed just fine and regularily produce litters.

We have had them in racks for about a year, the only problem we had is we had to change our wire from 1/2" to 1/4". We have had nooooo chew throughs. If one did excape the cat loves to hunt them as they are more of a hunt than mice. ASF have almost no SMELL!! The minute we bring mice back in we can smell them.

We run 1 male to every 4-6 females per tub. If we put more than one male in we have big problems!!!!!!!:colbert::colbert::colbert:

The males will fight and chew each other the whole time.

We also learned to remove babies when at the hopper stage, as again the male issue comes up. Needless to say males disappear first out of every batch.

JBF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeffFlanagan

Temperment varies. Mine are biters, but not the killing machines mcavana is raising.

---

LOL!

My guys and girls LOVE their new home. I have two wheels (which are in use most of the time) they are GREAT. I picked up them all without a bite :) :) I even picked up mom with a litter and she didn't nail me. I am go glad. I did loose track of how many I had. At least 3 litters and one VERY pregnant mom.

i was messin with mine today too and noticed they like to be rubbed on their backs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

Too cold, I enjoy the soutern weather too much ;)

---

Yayyy - I get to keep her!!!! :P

I have been breeding mine for approximately a year now. Started with a very nice 1:3 ratio from Jon (they were very nice and tame) Picked up a 3:10 ratio from a show and carefully culled the biters, nippers and jumpers (they will still jump if startled).

I have steel tubs so no worry about chewing out of anything. :D and they do walk upside down and can get to my automatic watering system with no problems. I don't know how much they drink exactly, but when I cull for feeders, I have to keep refilling the bottle..so unless you have bookoos of time on your hands, I would go with the automatic watering system, because it frees up a LOT Of time and if you want to go out of town for a weekend, the watering issue is taken care of.

Mine are not biters, but I am sure they would nip me if I startled them. They don't rush to the front to kill me, but they do come to see what kind of treat I have now. I give: grapes, bird seed and millet, nuts, Timothy hay, on top of lab blocks.

A pic is worth 1,000 words so without further ado:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Duchess009.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Duchess007.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Duchess010.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Duchess008.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...Duchess011.jpg

I read the caresheet of a woman that had been keeping them for a while. Her suggestion (in a nutshell) was tht most things/animals respond to how they are cared for. I am not saying that mine won't bite, anything with teeth will bite on a bad day. It's nust that they are getting a bad rap in my opinion and they are no where near as vicious as they are being painted by some.:tears:

I would love to read that caresheet, or a paraphrasing of some key points. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I would love to read that caresheet, or a paraphrasing of some key points. :D

---

http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Anim...rred%20Rat.htm

It doesn't say "copyrighted" so I am sure that they would want the information shared. :D


Oh yes! I forgot they eat some of Duchess (gecko's) superworms and mealworms!:rofl: