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Microchipping your Hets

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  • 04-30-2008, 11:24 AM
    LadyOhh
    Microchipping your Hets
    Would you Microchip your hets to guarantee the genetics??
  • 04-30-2008, 11:26 AM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    How would microchips guarantee genetics? .
  • 04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Your microchip to guarantee your own genetic creation by confirming and being able to trace that that animal is produced by you, assuming that you are being honest. Something more substantial and long lasting than a piece of paper.

    I should have elaborated.
  • 04-30-2008, 11:29 AM
    Brimstone111888
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    There would have to be a governing body for that to work. Otherwise whats gonna stop people from making fake chips or putting a chip into a normal.
  • 04-30-2008, 11:30 AM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Agreed, but would it be something that people would find worthwhile if the animals came from a reputable source?
  • 04-30-2008, 11:35 AM
    Hotshot
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LadyOhh View Post
    Agreed, but would it be something that people would find worthwhile if the animals came from a reputable source?

    I still see no point in it:rolleyes:
  • 04-30-2008, 11:36 AM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    If the buyer doesn't have access to a scanner, especially a scanner that can read all of the implants, then it would be useless.

    I would microchip mine just for the peace of mind and for the record-keeping, but without a scanner(that costs $400) it doesn't really matter. It's also traceable, so if snakes are stolen and then resold, then the person who bought them might be able to scan them and find out who produced the snake(and ultimately who owns the snake). But still, they would have to have them scanned.

    Jeff, we need a registry for microchips now :)
  • 04-30-2008, 11:39 AM
    Brimstone111888
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    I think eventually some system and standards are going to develop and a microchip registry might be possible.
  • 04-30-2008, 12:09 PM
    dsirkle
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    It may pay off for a well regarded breeder to document their own line or to prove that something was produced by them and also to help with proof when a valuble snake is stolen. Every Vet and shelter has scanners. It is not hard to gain access to a scanner. The producer of the snake that is implanted with the chip would be the defacto registry for his own snakes. Anyone could have a snake scanned and contact the breeder with the chip info to verify whether or not it matches the breeder info. It would also be registered with the company that sold the chip. It would probably add $50 to the cost of a snake. If somebody started doing this, soon others would probably follow suit.
  • 04-30-2008, 01:47 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LadyOhh View Post
    Your microchip to guarantee your own genetic creation by confirming and being able to trace that that animal is produced by you, assuming that you are being honest. Something more substantial and long lasting than a piece of paper.

    I still don't see how this would result in any better genetic identification. While chipping animals is a great idea, the process itself won't tell you anything except "this chip id was injected into this animal". In the end, the chip ID would just be another bit of information on your piece of paper (as it is with breeders offering to chip animals already).
  • 04-30-2008, 01:48 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dsirkle View Post
    If somebody started doing this, soon others would probably follow suit.

    Most large breeders already do this.
  • 04-30-2008, 01:55 PM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    I know Mike Wilbanks is already doing this, it's on his site and you can pay for it when you order a snake.
  • 04-30-2008, 02:01 PM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ctrlfreq View Post
    I still don't see how this would result in any better genetic identification. While chipping animals is a great idea, the process itself won't tell you anything except "this chip id was injected into this animal". In the end, the chip ID would just be another bit of information on your piece of paper (as it is with breeders offering to chip animals already).

    So you don't see the point in the practice?
  • 04-30-2008, 02:06 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LadyOhh View Post
    So you don't see the point in the practice?

    In the practice of course, I think any and every animal should be chipped for identification purposes.

    As a method of proving genetic lineage, no.
  • 04-30-2008, 02:08 PM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ctrlfreq View Post
    In the practice of course, I think any and every animal should be chipped. As a method of proving genetic lineage, no.

    So you would not trust the word of someone who produced the animal and placed a chip in there to confirm that this animal is what they say it was?
  • 04-30-2008, 02:09 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LadyOhh View Post
    So you would not trust the word of someone who produced the animal and placed a chip in there to confirm that this animal is what they say it was?

    The real question is what difference the chip would make...you either trust their word or not.
  • 04-30-2008, 02:12 PM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ctrlfreq View Post
    The real question is what difference the chip would make...you either trust their word or not.

    Very true..

    But if not you, do you see it as a benefit for other people to know that there is physical evidence this animal is what YOU believe it to be?

    Aka transfer of ownership...
  • 04-30-2008, 02:15 PM
    Brimstone111888
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ctrlfreq View Post
    The real question is what difference the chip would make...you either trust their word or not.



    Thats what I was wondering. Without a "higher" body regulating the chips, the chip is worth just as much as a piece of paper.
  • 04-30-2008, 02:17 PM
    dsirkle
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    If you were considering buying a snake from Joe Blow and he told you that this snake is het for Lavender Albino and was produced by a well known respected breeder and he wanted $xxxx for it and you wondered about the legitimacy of the snake ( because hets are risky and even honest mix ups can occur), and you knew that the respected breeder implanted chips in all his hets, you could scan the snake and contact the breeder to see if this chip matched his records.In an expensive snake the cost of the chip isn't much more. I see the point.
  • 04-30-2008, 02:19 PM
    LadyOhh
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Brimstone111888 View Post
    Thats what I was wondering. Without a "higher" body regulating the chips, the chip is worth just as much as a piece of paper.

    What do you propose this higher body to do?
  • 04-30-2008, 02:24 PM
    Brimstone111888
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Ideally they would have to regulate the chipping of animals.

    If we are trying to use microchips to prove the validity of hets, someone has to regulate the chips and possibly provide proof of the chippee's genetics.

    Overall I think it would be very hard to do, specifically since people are already going their own chipping. With a higher body I still think it would be very hard to assure the validity of a het.

    Also Heather you frequently bring up good discussion topics :gj:
  • 04-30-2008, 02:31 PM
    dsirkle
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ctrlfreq View Post
    Most large breeders already do this.

    I meant routinely chippng them not just offering the option at extra cost.
  • 04-30-2008, 03:02 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LadyOhh View Post
    But if not you, do you see it as a benefit for other people to know that there is physical evidence this animal is what YOU believe it to be?

    Unless the chip registry also contains information about the original breeder, and the composition of the animal, it all still goes back to trust. Even if we could institute a registry that everyone trusted as a definitive source, there would be a many hurdles that would hinder adoption, such as:

    1) The lack of a map of the BP genome to identify the genetic traits being mapped (phenotypes are notoriously unreliable for judging genetic makeup).

    2) The composition of designer morphs, where known, are often considered trade secrets, which the breeders would be reluctant to disclose. I don't think NERD, for instance, would ever disclose the contents of an Inferno, either on the chip or in a registry.

    3) The only way to determine the actual genetic makeup of a particular animal is through breeding over time, which is roughly 2-3 years too late in most cases to identify the animal via the embedded chip.


    Like I said before, I see the benefit in chipping animals for identification purposes, but don't see the same benefit when it comes to discerning genetic makeup.
  • 04-30-2008, 03:05 PM
    nevohraalnavnoj
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    I believe a picture and photo records kept on your computer/website/printed for your records would achieve 99% of the benefits that micro-chipping would, with the exception of tracking.

    I'm anti micro chip.

    JonV
  • 04-30-2008, 03:26 PM
    cassandra
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    "They" chip "registered" dogs, don't they? Who regulates the registration and chipping of dogs? How does that work? Maybe the ideas "they" have set would transfer to the snakie world?
  • 04-30-2008, 04:11 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cassandra View Post
    "They" chip "registered" dogs, don't they? Who regulates the registration and chipping of dogs?

    The short answer is, whoever you pay to do it. When you chip any animal, there are two associated costs... 1) the cost of the chip ($25+), and 2) the cost of registering the chip and animal combination with one of the databases that animal shelters and veterinarians have access to.

    Even with a centralized system, things aren't all peachy though. Even though a new chip hasn't been released in years, there are multiple standards, not all of which are compatible with the same readers, so even if you chip your animal, there is a chance it won't be seen by the reader being used to scan.
  • 04-30-2008, 04:28 PM
    SatanicIntention
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Yep, it all depends on the person who buys that animal and if they sign up for the registry. If they don't, then it's just useless other than identification in a large collection.

    And to whoever said they are against chipping, why? It doesn't cause cancer or any other negative impact.. It's like people with pieces of bullet or shrapnel in their skin, it doesn't cause problems and the body just walls it off.
  • 04-30-2008, 04:54 PM
    bigballs
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    couldnt we just plug the snake into a USB?:confused:
  • 04-30-2008, 04:55 PM
    nevohraalnavnoj
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bigballs View Post
    couldnt we just plug the snake into a USB?:confused:

    Ha! Get with the new technology! My snakes are all sold 100% firewire compatible.

    JonV
  • 04-30-2008, 05:09 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj View Post
    Get with the new technology! My snakes are all sold 100% firewire compatible.

    Yeah! Get with the program!*

    (* oh wait, usb is faster than firewire)
  • 04-30-2008, 05:49 PM
    Kara
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    The only difference between a microchip & a signed photo ID/"proof of origin" paperwork is that the microchip can't become separated from the snake. Neither one is going to make a het out of a normal if someone is really hellbent on ripping people off & using either method to do so.

    Whether or not the snake is guaranteed legitimately still comes down to acquiring animals from a reputable source that you trust & with whom you feel comfortable doing business. If part of that means having microchip ID available, then buy chipped snakes.

    Just my $8.02 (includes fuel surcharge).

    K~
  • 04-30-2008, 06:21 PM
    Custom Exotics
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KLG View Post
    Just my $8.02 (includes fuel surcharge).

    K~

    :clap::rofl::rofl:
  • 04-30-2008, 11:14 PM
    ctrlfreq
    Re: Microchipping your Hets
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KLG View Post
    Neither one is going to make a het out of a normal

    Ball Python DNA mutating microchips... If anyone has the resources to start that business up, it's you Kara :twisted:
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