IBD?? opinions needed plz help

So, I decided to get a new thread out in the public to hopefully get some more opinions about my snakes strange "twisting" behavior. I was introduced to possibly Inclusion Body Disease. Then I got nervous because the videos he shared look like the behavior of my Kojack which were titled "Inclusion Body Disease". Could it be that? Should I be concerned? Here are the pictures that I posted of his movements. I don't know of any specifics to give right now so if there are any questions to move towards a clear answer please let me know! I don't want this lingering over my head :(

ps. like I said before, he's in motion and these AREN'T the greatest quality pictures

pss. I don't mean to sound crazy...but I'm sure all of you could understand that he means a lot to me and I want him to be OK

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...9/IMG_0084.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...9/IMG_0088.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...9/IMG_0090.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...9/IMG_0083.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...9/IMG_0082.jpg

pss. PLEASE don't get on me about the enclosure! i'm working on it and I know that is a big thing that comes up when pictures are shared. But that's not my biggest concern atm :P

Is that a spider? How often does it make the movements?

Yes he is a spider. He does it about every single night. Sometimes during the day but usually at night when he is most active. But they occur for sometimes HOURS like, he won't stop moving. And sometimes he looses his balance and gravity takes a hold on him and he drops his head to the ground. He also sometimes does the "gazing". He'll be sitting in his water bowl with his head upside down propped on the edge of the bowl looking dead. I know he's not but he's really good at playing it.

How long have you had him? If he had IBD he would be dead within a month ;)

Did you get your snake from a reputable breeder? It's really hard to tell with pictures, but the movements do seem pretty exaggerated. Can you 'snap' the snake out of it? Does the snake seem really out of it? Remember, IBD is a neurological disease and is always fatal and will kill the snake quickly. If you have any other snakes you need to really make strict QT procedures.
Ya know, I've seen youtube clips of snakes with IBD, but have never seen a snake with it 'in person'.
I think if I were in your shoes, I'd forward your pictures to the breeder and ask him or her about this. :oops:

Its a spider! Most of them do that!!

Looks to me like a Spider with a bad case of the "wobbles". If that's the case then it's actually pretty common among spiders. It's not for anyone to say from a few pics that it could be anything else. IBD can only be determined via necropsy. I'm sure others will weigh in here on this, but it looks like the wobbles to me. You will also see it called "spinning". Due a search and you should find other pics and videos with examples.

I have had him since February and I think he's been doing that since I've gotten him..so that's what makes me curious. But his movements are REALLY exaggeratted. I've never really tried to 'snap' him out of it but he does to seem to be in a daze. And I don't have any other snakes to worry about so that is good :) He is my first and only so I can't fail him!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Its a spider! Most of them do that!!

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Looks to me like a Spider with a bad case of the "wobbles". If that's the case then it's actually pretty common among spiders. It's not for anyone to say from a few pics that it could be anything else. IBD can only be determined via necropsy. I'm sure others will weigh in here on this, but it looks like the wobbles to me. You will also see it called "spinning". Due a search and you should find other pics and videos with examples.

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Do you guys really think so? The movements seems really really exaggerated :O

Ok thank you everyone SO SO much. I will do some more research. I'm always learning new things about all this. Should I take him to a vet for a check up just to make sure?

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Originally Posted by kojack8389

I have had him since February and I think he's been doing that since I've gotten him..so that's what makes me curious. But his movements are REALLY exaggeratted. I've never really tried to 'snap' him out of it but he does to seem to be in a daze. And I don't have any other snakes to worry about so that is good :) He is my first and only so I can't fail him!!

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You wont fail him. Did you get him from a breeder? He looks like an older snake; is this so?

Any opinions help a lot. I know you all are probably WAY more advanced with this type of stuff.

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Originally Posted by starmom

You wont fail him. Did you get him from a breeder? He looks like an older snake; is this so?

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Yes I did get him from my boyfriend's friend who is a breeder. We don't really talk to him very much though...He was older when we got him but not by much I don't think. It was a birthday present for me so I don't think he knew to much about what to do :P

Maybe you could ask him if the snake was doing it when he had him. I'm assuming that he pipped the snake from one of his clutches...? Anyway, ask him- he will know.
Spiders do have a funny wobble thing that they do but WOW yours is extreme! Special snake, that one!!! :D

I'm hoping he is JUST 'special'! Not in danger. But yes, I will do that asap about asking the breeder. TY

I'm just going to throw in my opinion that I would not suggest breeding him to any female..... It's not right passing along those genes with wobble that severe. Understand though, this is only my opinion.

That is a Spider, and that is a wobble. More severe than some, but not as horrible as some can be.

It's alright.

Hi,

This reminds me of a snake lillyorchid took in called loopy.

the threads are to be found;

Here,

Here,

And here.

I know a lot of the pictures and video's no longer work but I did save one of the videos showing his looping behaviour.

The problem is it is a 4.4meg flv file - do you have anything that can play those or should I find you links (I use an older version of this ) or convert it into another format?

Other formats are likely to make it larger as I am not exactly a whizz with these things.

Let me know what you want to do.

**edit**

I should point out that while loopy definately has the wobbles he is not a spider.

**end edit**


dr del

has he been doing that since you have had him or is it a recent sort of thing?

I have one spider, and he does not wobble or spin, but I have heard of others that do. You asked if you should take him to the vet. If it is just the spider wobble, then I would not take him to the vet, because the vet is most likely not going to know what is going on with him, and diagnose your snake with IBD. From what I have heard most vets diagnose snakes with any neurological problems with IBD, even though most do not have IBD. If this were IBD, your snake would pass away very quickly, so most likely it is not IBD. Hope this helps.

It's a Spider, they all do it.

Both of mine do it to a certain degree, the female much less than the male. Her head only tilts to the side(other than her neck being half as short as it should be, her underbite, and her tongue that doesn't stick out any further than the 2 forks) and she doesn't overreact to stimuli. The male tilts a bit but doesn't spin while in his tub. He does overreact to stimuli and that can cause some mild spinning. They both do everything normally; eat, drink, shed, defecate/urinate, etc.

It's just what Spiders do.

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Originally Posted by dr del

I know a lot of the pictures and video's no longer work but I did save one of the videos showing his looping behaviour.


dr del

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Thank you. I was able to see the video, none of the pictures but that's ok! Thanks again!

I'm confident in everyone's opinions that he is ok and just has bad 'wobbles'; but I will still watch him carefully everyday and make sure everything else is going smoothly.

You've had him since February. Has he been around any other snakes since then? If not and if it were IBD, he'd be dead now.

He's got an extreme head wobble. I believe that the degree of "wobbleness" passed on to offspring is variable. A non-wobbler can throw a "train-wreck" wobbler and a bad wobbler can throw non-wobblers - although there are some believe that ALL spiders spin to some degree:

http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?p=5

When purchasing a spider one the first questions should be
"Is he a spinner or wobbler?"

You my friend have a spinner, he will be fine, like others have said if it was IBD he woulda been pushing up daisies a while ago.

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Originally Posted by kojack8389

Thank you. I was able to see the video, none of the pictures but that's ok! Thanks again!

I'm confident in everyone's opinions that he is ok and just has bad 'wobbles'; but I will still watch him carefully everyday and make sure everything else is going smoothly.

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Hi,

Actually, for clarity, I should point out I was talking about a different video provided by lillyorchid of loopy (on a tabletop by the looks of it) not the one posted by nightlad.


dr del

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

When purchasing a spider one the first questions should be
"Is he a spinner or wobbler?"

You my friend have a spinner, he will be fine, like others have said if it was IBD he woulda been pushing up daisies a while ago.

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He was my first snake, plus I didn't even purchase him my bf did for my birthday and I don't think he knew to ask either. but now I do!

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Originally Posted by kojack8389

He was my first snake, plus I didn't even purchase him my bf did for my birthday and I don't think he knew to ask either. but now I do!

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He looks pretty handsome! Nice present:gj:

I have heard a theory that they do less spinning in lower light conditions as opposed to brighter. I dont know how true that is but they dont need bright lighting anyway so it couldn't hurt to see if it's true. it's just something I read and have no idea if it's true or someones isolated experience.