FRUSTRATED...What to try next

So I had another rat litter a few days ago and sure enough I went to check on them the next day and they were all gone! This is the third time in 2 weeks that I had a litter completely eaten! My current setups are as follows....

1.1 in 1 tub. she had a litter I think, she was big then a few days later she was normal size again but no babies I could see.

1.2 in another tub. had my first litter from one of the females but the female from tub #1 ate them thats why I moved her to a tub by herself. I got another litter a few days ago but i'm not sure if it was the same female as before. The other female is preg now.

The way I have been doing it is just leaving them all be, not removing the males. Should I try removing the males and see if that makes a difference? I don't think the males are the ones eating the babies and the mothers are nursing (I think, they all had nice fat white bellies). They are in 70qt tubs with plenty of food and water and also a few chew items. I really need some advice here, I'm starting to get discouraged :mad:

I have always heard to feed off the ones who you find out are giving you problems, get rid of the bad apples so to speak. My problem is, I have a rack with 1.4 in each tub and every now and then I will go in there and a rat will be dead and partially eaten, problem is, I can't figure out which one is doing it, if not more than one. I hear if you get rid of the bad apples then you can get a healthier collection and don't have to worry about those problems.

first what are you feeding? do they have hides? I always give my rats a place to hide their babies. Makes them feel safer. Also what is the temp of the room? I like to keep my temps around 75ish. What bedding are you using? Try switching to aspen or just paper towels (torn up) or use wood pellets.

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Originally Posted by akaangela

first what are you feeding? do they have hides? I always give my rats a place to hide their babies. Makes them feel safer. Also what is the temp of the room? I like to keep my temps around 75ish. What bedding are you using? Try switching to aspen or just paper towels (torn up) or use wood pellets.

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I'm using Mazuri breeder block and yes they have hides. The room temp is 75-78 and they are on aspen with pieces of shredded paper towels. Anymore ideas :confused: I'm contemplating getting a whole new colony to replace what I have but what are the chances I have 5 bad rats? Should I try completely separating my pregnant female to a cage all alone?

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Originally Posted by Enve

I'm contemplating getting a whole new colony to replace what I have but what are the chances I have 5 bad rats? Should I try completely separating my pregnant female to a cage all alone?

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I dont think you have 5 bad rats, one maybe two, but not all five. You know you have a problem with that one female, because you say she has done it twice. I say feed her off and see if it happens again. If not, replace her with another breeder female and you should be set. I would also try the substrate changes and hides as well.

We remove the male and use the 12 week cycle listed in the sticky's. So far it has worked well and we are on litter 5 or 6 with more prego's ready to pop! The only babies eaten seem to have been one or maybe two out of one or two litters. Probably becouse they were not doing well. We are now working on a second colony of rats that will be rats born in our care so we can track ages better and handle them more often from pups up to make tamer breeders!

I only keep mine 1.1 during breeding. I leave the male in with the female till I start to notice a bulge and then I remove the male. I have found that the males will stress the females a lil bit by constantly trying to mate and wrestle with them.

If after 2 1/2 weeks with one male...if I don't start to see a bulge I just put that female in with another male. Well...I give her a couple days to break and then place her with another male.

I will only put my fostered pups in with a group of females..maybe 3 of them. And usually I try to wait till the pups are a couple weeks old to do that...since they aren't as needy and start to drink and eat on their own some.

If they are small pups and have to be fostered...due to a large litter or whatever, I find one of my moms who is taking a 'vaca' and put them in with her.

I have not had any kind of killings.

Also...I do not offer any hides for my rats. I have over a hundred rats and I have enough to clean. I use a Muzuri mix...Becky's blend. Aspen for bedding in my breeder rack and water daily.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to try removing the male before my pregnant one pops and see if that makes a difference.

I would remove the male, like you said. Rats are generally very good mothers and it's odd to see litter after litter eaten. The only other idea I had is that she is a bad apple.

If it is indeed stress from having a male around, then yes I would remove him.

How close together are you breeding them? Perhaps the first litter was the first time jitters, but the second was too close, and she did not have the reserves to raise a litter, so she destroyed them. Rats will do this if they believe they are incapable of raising the pups, and will eat the litter to regain nutrition.

Just the fact that they ate all of the pinks tells me that this is not aggressive behavior, since when mothers destroy the pinks, they will sever the spinal cord, and often leave the bodies or parts littered here and there (sometimes not, it's a gamble). If she just picks them up and starts to snack, then I would have to believe she is replenishing her body.

Let us know how things go.

Connie,
The litters were from 3 different mothers (I think, atleast 2 different moms). Thats the weird part, I am removing the male today for the one that is about to pop and i'll see how it goes. My most recent litter way be from the same mom as the litter a few weeks ago but i'm not sure, I need to mark them or something they all look alike except for my stand alone female lol. I'll keep this post updated. Thanks :D

Where did you get the rats?

Keep in mind, while many of us feed off the brain eating zombies.... Breeders do the same thing... only instead of feeding them off, they sell them as pets / feeders!

I only breed ASF's now but I have found that each generation in one way or another is better then the previous.

i would remove the males aftre the females become pregnant i know in mice if a male is in with a pregnant female and that female has babies the male will cull off the babies to keep on going at the female i dont know if thats true with rats but give it a try

I got the proven killer female from a small local pet store and the others from a breeder. I removed the male, the female should pop by the end of the week, so time will tell :weirdface

Little update.....The bad momma was eaten, the male moved into another tub, other female gave a nice litter and........they are still alive :banana: :banana: This is the longest any of the babies have lasted (almost 24 hours) so I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they stay alive and not eaten. I'll post another update in a day or 2 when I think I'm completely over the hump. :please:

Well i peeked on them again before I go to bed, they are still alive but they are now in 2 separate piles :confused: There are about 13 in one pile and 5 in another on the other end of the tank. They look fine but will the other female nurse them or will they die?

pinkies will roll around and the mother will move them constantly just let her do her thing

Glad to hear they are doing well Enve!

;)

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Originally Posted by Enve

Well i peeked on them again before I go to bed, they are still alive but they are now in 2 separate piles :confused: There are about 13 in one pile and 5 in another on the other end of the tank. They look fine but will the other female nurse them or will they die?

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If its a large litter, mom will separate them into 2 groups to ensure that everyone gets to nurse and cleaned. It's common and nothing to worry about.

Thanks for replies! I checked again and they are all doing good! Looks like they are all back in 1 pile again also.

Glad to hear things are looking up

Next time when you have a new female I would suggest you to set her up on her own when giving birth to her first litter to identify any possible problem (whether it is possible aggression or healthy issue with the babies).

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Glad to hear things are looking up

Next time when you have a new female I would suggest you to set her up on her own when giving birth to her first litter to identify any possible problem (whether it is possible aggression or healthy issue with the babies).

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Good idea, I will be getting a few more females this week so I will keep them all seperate till I get a good litter out of them.

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Originally Posted by Monty

i would remove the males aftre the females become pregnant i know in mice if a male is in with a pregnant female and that female has babies the male will cull off the babies to keep on going at the female i dont know if thats true with rats but give it a try

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i know a few ppl that breed as well as i am and i dont have a problem with mice or rats eating the babies. i dont separate the males rats will eat the babies that they cant take care of or there is something wrong with them(some wont eat them period). mice on the other hand will eat them to control the population somewhat, but not as bad as my asfs do. ive noticed that sometimes if you have rats weening and pinks in the same tub sometimes the weenlings will eat the pinks.

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Originally Posted by nixer

ive noticed that sometimes if you have rats weening and pinks in the same tub sometimes the weenlings will eat the pinks.

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Why would you have weaners and pinks in the same tub?

Little update....I still have 15 babies :banana: :banana: :banana: starting to get a little fuzz and they all look great! Thanks again for the helpful replies! I'll get some pics up when I get a chance.

good job glad things are going good for you

Thanks Monty! So I got open eyes on some and my other female dropped a litter the other day and they are still alive and kicking as well. Finally! Thanks again all :gj:

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Originally Posted by Enve

Well i peeked on them again before I go to bed, they are still alive but they are now in 2 separate piles :confused: There are about 13 in one pile and 5 in another on the other end of the tank. They look fine but will the other female nurse them or will they die?

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Perfectly normal behaviour with a bigger litter. When I first started breeding rats and a female split her litter, I "helped" her by putting them all back together. I'll tell you I got some looks from those poor female rats who I'm sure didn't appreciate the idiot human "helping" them. LOL

They'll split the litter to allow every baby to get to a teat easily and also in case a predator showed up they can't eat the whole group that way. They'll pile them back together for nightly butt washing time and so forth.

I like my females seperated to give birth, especially the new mothers, so I can see whose got good mothering skills or who might be birthing defective babies, etc. Once the litters have their eyes open at around 15 days I generally put two moms and all their babies into a big tub so the females can finish raising their young communally and get some socializing with another adult female rat (also frees up my limited single maternity tanks).