Newbie with a feeding question...

Hi all! I am curious to know (since I am relatively new with the whole snake experience) when feeding your balls - how many strike attempts do your snakes take at their food before actually hitting their target??? I have two balls - a female baby & a male thats about a year old. The female strikes and hits the mouse on the 1st try every time. The male on the other hand takes 3-4 attempts before he hits his target and wraps the mouse up. I feed f/t to both of them and do the little dance thing. They both eat outside of their enclosures. Could he be blind? Can snakes be blind? I read everything I can get my hands on regarding ball pythons. I researched them for months before I purchased. I want everything to be right - am I doing something wrong. I PROMISE I WON'T BE RUDE IF YOU TELL ME I AM DOING SOMETHING INCORRECTLY - I JUST WANT HAPPY SNAKES.

Thanks in advance for any input you have to offer!!!!!

I am sure snakes can be blind... you might have to ask a vet to check yours out if you think he could be.

Mine usually get it one strike- I can say that- and having eight of them, that's a decent amount to go by. Sometimes it takes a couple hits, though.

Thanks 4 the input. I really do appreciate it.

One more question...

Can snakes see like we see or do they only see heat or both? That's probably a stupid question... If it is - sorry.

If the snake is stiking and missing or hitting the prey and not holding on.....my first thought is that those initial strikes are defensive. Defensive strikes are somewhat random unlike strikes for prey which are usually spot on. The snake might have to strike a few times to realize the thing they are striking at is prey...then it changes its method of attack.

The initial defensiveness may also have something to do with you moving the snake around before feeding it. I would offer the snake the rodent inside of it's enclosure for the next feeding and see if the issue still occurs. If it does not miss, then that may be the issue.

I would also suggest trying to prescent the area a bit more before trying the rodent dance. Set the rodent in the feeding container for a bit. Remove the rodent. Place the ball python in the feeding container and give it a few minutes to take in the smells and become a bit more accustomed to its surroundings......then offer the rodent.

Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I would also suggest trying to prescent the area a bit more before trying the rodent dance. Set the rodent in the feeding container for a bit. Remove the rodent. Place the ball python in the feeding container and give it a few minutes to take in the smells and become a bit more accustomed to its surroundings......then offer the rodent.

Just my thoughts.

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I do the prescenting thing already..... And as silly as it may sound I would rather not feed him in his enclosure. The whole associate my hand with food thing ya know?

Thanks 4 ur input :)

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

The whole associate my hand with food thing ya know?

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That is somewhat of a common myth.

To follow the same idea, wouldn't taking your snake out of it's enclosure be a trigger for a feeding response since you take it out in order to feed?

As long as you change it up(i.e. take out to handle, take out to feed, take out to clean), you will do fine feeding anywhere. The problems occur when a person only interacts with their snake during feeding time.

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

I do the prescenting thing already..... And as silly as it may sound I would rather not feed him in his enclosure. The whole associate my hand with food thing ya know?

Thanks 4 ur input :)

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Your snake should not associate your hands with feeding at all if you handle them, and feed with tongs/dont stick your hands right in when feeding. But I can understand why you would feel nervous about it. Keeping your snake(s) in their enclosures during feeding does help them feel much more secure while eating (my bp drags his dinner into his hide, somehow, and eats in there often)

It does sound like your bp may be striking defensively first, and Daniel makes a great point for you to try feeding in the enclosure. It is much less stressfull for your snake to not have to be removed and returned to his enclosure for dinner.

*Daniel, your fingers are faster than mine;)*

Just so we don't seem to be too strong in pushing the idea of feeding inside the enclosure....

How long do you let the snake 'settle in' to the feed box before offering food?

Another thing is that f/t rodent's smell is not always the best at prescenting. Next time you go to the pet store to pick up something, bring a ziplock and ask someone if you can have some used rodent bedding (they will look at you like you are crazy ;)). Put the rodent bedding in a old piece of stocking and use it to prescent. Works wonders. The stocking full of bedding can be stored in a ziplock and useds for a few months before you need to replace it. I use a similar method to get some of my snakes to have a stronger feeding response.

I know you're not pushing the "feed in the enclosure" issue. I do understand I am probably creating stress 4 my snakes by feeding out of the enclosure. I am open to change - like I mentioned b4 I want whats best for my snakes and for them to be as stress free as possible. Blah, blah, blah.... Anyway back to the subject at hand - the feeding tank is 20L w/newspaper substrate, UTH (only) and 1 hide identical to what is in there enclosure. Once I put him in, I let him chill for 1-2 hours b4 offering food. Always for a minimum of an hour, sometimes I get busy with something else... he has been in there close to 2 hours. Too long? Not long enuff????

Since I am still new at this (and have NEVER been bitten) I am still a bit nervous around the male more so than the female - big size difference between the 2. And I do use tongs - I happen to like my fingers :).

I do feed most of mine in their enclosure... and I do not prescent. No issues.

Hey no question is stupid... :)

When feeding f/t, I generally offer with a rodent dance....if no takers, I just set the rodent in the enclosure with the snake and leave it for a few hours.

When I use a feeding box, I prescent....give it a few minutes, do a rodent dance, then set the rodent in the box for about 20 minutes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I have had snakes only take f/t rodents that are freshly hot. Others that would eat anything. Some that would only eat live.

I never saw one of my children's pythons eat a rodent until it was almost a year old....it would never take it off the tongs...but if I left it alone for awhile it would eat.

Each snake is different.....just something we all have to learn to deal with...and what I find most enjoyable about keeping reptiles ;)

Most people think f/t feeding is simple but there are all sorts of factors that can play a part of feeding f/t.

Temperature of the rodent, is the rodent wet dry or damp, quality of the rodent, smell of the rodent, etc. everything plays a factor and with picky snakes...one of those factors could be the difference between a consistant feeder and a picky eater.

Just something you have to experiment with :)

Just another view... I feed 11 of my 12 snakes in a separate feeding tub and have no issues getting any of them to eat. The one picky eater is very shy and will only eat in her tub. If I try to feed her outside of her tub she wants nothing to do with the mouse and trys to escape the tub... Put her back in her tub and drop the mouse in and its a whole different story... I like the feeding tub becuase it lets them know food is on the way.

I know its supposed to be a myth but I did run into an issue where it was feeding day and I was short on my patience and decided to feed one of my girls in her tank... She took the rat with no issues but come a couple days later I went to take her out and she tagged me. I think this may be just bc she was so use to getting fed in another tub and then I switched it up on her so she probably thought hey foods on the way.

With that said the one snake that does eat inside her enclosure shes as sweet as can be! I say do whatever works for the snake as long as they eat

I think your snake is striking for defensive reasons not feeding. When a snake strikes to defend it doesnt attempt at latching on. I belive because you are moving them to a separate enclosure the snake becomes insecure and goes into a defensive mode instead of a feeding mode.

The problem that I have with the other enclosure theory is then why doesn't the snake think it is being fed everytime you take them out of the enclosure? After all you take them out to feed right? It doesn't add up and snakes dont have that kind of reasoning skills. The 2 things that make them strike for food is scent and heat signature. You are most likely to get bit trying to take them out when there are rodents in the room.

If you feel your snake is in a strike mode (neck in an S shape) and feel may bite you simply take a misting/water bottle and give him a spray of water, this is harmless and will switch him immediately from strike mode to hide mode.

Ball pyhons are ambush/ opportunistic eaters. In order to ambush their prey they need to feel secure.

Of course this varies from snake to snake but most prefer the security of their hide or enclosure.

One way to tell if your snake is in ambush mode is when he is in his hide with just his head poking out in the S strike pose.

I feed 30+ snakes every week in their enclosures and no one ever tries to strike until they smell rats, then its game on!

The snake knows its not being fed every time its taken out bc its not being put in the feeding tub... I dont only take my snakes out to feed so why would they think theyre getting fed everytime??? I could see if you didnt touch your snakes and only touched them when its feeding day but whats the point of having the snake as a pet if your not gonna take it out??

I put a towel across the bottom of the feeding tub and after feeding a couple snakes the towel smells like rat... They know when they get in the tub by the smell that food is coming.

Ive been feeding my snakes inside a feeding tub for about 2 yrs now and the only times ive been bit are when Ive placed the snake inside the feeding tub and couldnt get my hand away in time be4 he struck(same snake both times!)... either way I dont complain bc that just means hes got a strong feeding response and furthers my belief that they know the second they get in there its time to grub.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

The snake knows its not being fed every time its taken out bc its not being put in the feeding tub... I dont only take my snakes out to feed so why would they think theyre getting fed everytime??? I could see if you didnt touch your snakes and only touched them when its feeding day but whats the point of having the snake as a pet if your not gonna take it out??

I put a towel across the bottom of the feeding tub and after feeding a couple snakes the towel smells like rat... They know when they get in the tub by the smell that food is coming.

Ive been feeding my snakes inside a feeding tub for about 2 yrs now and the only times ive been bit are when Ive placed the snake inside the feeding tub and couldnt get my hand away in time be4 he struck(same snake both times!)... either way I dont complain bc that just means hes got a strong feeding response and furthers my belief that they know the second they get in there its time to grub.

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I am glad that works for you but my point is the snake is not reasoning all this info, it smells a rat and strikes. My snakes never strike at me unless they smell rats. The point is there is no need to remove from the enclosure. I never do and they dont strike untill they smell a rat.

now some people remove them because they dont want them to swallow bedding which makes sense but the theory that they will think they are gonna eat everytime you open the tub if you feed in their tub is false. otherwise I would get bit all the time and I never do.

The only ones reasoning all this info is us not the snakes.

Now if someone is having a problem with feeding then removing from the tub is not a good idea. I have nothing against feeding in another tub, but when problems arise I reccomend you dont, thats all.

So you're saying you dont think my snakes know that when they get put in the feeding tub thats its time to eat? I find that very hard to believe just because they can "understand" (if thats the right word) a pattern and that pattern is always the same on feeding day. Also the towel in the feeding tub smells like rat so again another sign its time to eat.

I dont disagree with you that the whole hand in tub get bit myth is just that... a myth but my experience has shown me that a feeding tub works very well in developing a feeding pattern which helps get/keep snakes eating regularly.

I love it! You all are amazing with all the tips, etc. I REALLY do appreciate it.

Question... How do you guys heat up your f/t?

I'm thinking maybe mine aren't warm enuff?

I take the mice out of the freezer and put them in a small tupperware and put the tupperware in a large bowl of hot water when they are no longer frozen I remove from the water bowl.
I warm them up with a hairdryer prior to feeding... Is this wrong???

All of mine are fed in their tubs, and I do not generally get bit on a non-feeding day. There are babies here that would rather bite me than look at me, so they don't count. I can reach in anytime on a non-feeding day and will not be looked at as food.

I bring the tub of mice into the room, put it on the floor and leave it in there for a good 30 minutes. When I come back, snakes are usually in their hides or cruising around the tub. I then feed everyone in the same order until I'm done. Even if I have skipped a week, this routine gets them into feed mode.

Josh, what he is saying is that the snakes smell food, they associate the smell of food with eating. They aren't associating the tub with eating. You could set them on the floor with a towel that smelled like rodent, and they would go into feed mode.

Smell of rodent = Dinner time!
A bare tub that smells nothing of food doesn't equal dinner time.
A tub with a towel scented with rodent = dinner time!

Getting the picture? They are not associating being put in a tub as feeding time, they are associating the smell of food with feeding time. If you put them in a bare tub to clean their enclosure, how are they going to react? None of mine could care less.

Also, I am not about to handle any of my snakes on a feeding day if the smell of mouse is in the air. I will get bit and constricted as fast as I can blink. I am also not about to handle ANY of them after they've had a meal, as they are still in feed mode. It doesn't make sense to leave them in the still-rodent-smelling tub for an hour to calm down then have to go pick them up, stressing them out. They could already be in their own enclosure, starting to calm down, find a safe spot to rest and digest.

To me, there isn't ANY reason to move the snake other than to stress them out and have the possibility for a regurge. Just not worth the risk to me, and it's not worth it for me to get the raining hell of bites..

Thanks though!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

So you're saying you dont think my snakes know that when they get put in the feeding tub thats its time to eat? I find that very hard to believe just because they can "understand" (if thats the right word) a pattern and that pattern is always the same on feeding day. Also the towel in the feeding tub smells like rat so again another sign its time to eat.

I dont disagree with you that the whole hand in tub get bit myth is just that... a myth but my experience has shown me that a feeding tub works very well in developing a feeding pattern which helps get/keep snakes eating regularly.

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I believe and agree that they do used to specific patterns and if that is your pattern then that maybe so. My point was never to try to talk people out of separate tub feeding but to help the OP with their situation.

I dont know why you feed in a different tub, i assume its concern over substrate injestion. I am just trying to dispell the myth that snakes associate open tubs with feeding and will bite, that association is man made. I will have over 70+ snakes by the end of breeding season and taking them out is just unrealistic and unnecessary but anyway, I think we are getting off track.

I also have feeding patterns which works for me only it doesn't include removing my snakes, I also house my snakes on newspaper so injestion of wood peices is never a concern.