Accurite and Smart Snakes?

OK. So I've noticed that about 50% of the accurite's that I've seen or bought have been bad. Or at least it doesn't tell humidity properly. I've gone through 2 accurites in my incubator that has condensation on the glass which tells me it's at least 50% or higher humidity, yet the accurite says it's 46%. So I buy another accurite and stick it in there and it says it's 99%. Doesn't seem to be a very good investment if there is a 53% humidity swing between the $12 model and the $20 model. I guess I don't understand the craze behind something that doesn't work that well. Is it because they are cheap?

The other thing is that I was told by a lot of people when I first got on this forum that snakes weren't smart enough to go to the warm side of their tub, hence why we have to keep an ambient temp of at least 80 degree's through out the tub. I find this highly amusing considering some people think that their snake knows what day of the week it feeds, however the snake isn't smart enough to find the warm side of its tub. I don't know about you, but I find that to be effing hilarious. It seems to me that survival is key in these animals lives and when they are put in a situation where they have to make a decision by themselves, their instincts take over. Personally I feel that if you wave food in front of a snakes face (REGARDLESS OF WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK IT IS) the snake will eat if it's hungry. I have spent hours watching my snakes and learning their mannerisms and can physically watch them go from the cold side to the hot side.... My best guess is that their are cooling down and would like to warm back up. That seems to be pretty simple to figure out... or at least I thought so. Don't get me wrong none of my snakes have low temps... some of them just prefer the 80 degree side more than the 90 degree side and vice versa. BUT ALL OF THEM SWITCH SIDES A LOT THROUGH OUT THE DAY!

Anyway I just thought I would share that with everyone. Thanks for looking, and any knowledge on the accurite would be much appreciated.

You should test your equipment before you use it. It is also important to check your measuring devices it make sure they are in good working order.

You can do a google search and find plenty of ways to test hydrometer.
It can easily be done with a room you know is dry or you can place it in a zip lock bag that has a damp cloth it should be almost 100%. If you put it in a sealed container with a bottle cap full of really salty water it should read 75%.

Accurites dont work in incubators because they get too wet and as such, stop working. Find a hygrometer with a probe so the unit can be out of the actual enclosure. I know that Zilla makes a thermo/hygro with a separate temp and humidity probe that I have heard good things about. It is about 17 bucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThyTempest

Accurites dont work in incubators because they get too wet and as such, stop working. Find a hygrometer with a probe so the unit can be out of the actual enclosure. I know that Zilla makes a thermo/hygro with a separate temp and humidity probe that I have heard good things about. It is about 17 bucks.

---

Accurites have probes too. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elusivereptiles

OK. So I've noticed that about 50% of the accurite's that I've seen or bought have been bad. Or at least it doesn't tell humidity properly. I've gone through 2 accurites in my incubator that has condensation on the glass which tells me it's at least 50% or higher humidity, yet the accurite says it's 46%. So I buy another accurite and stick it in there and it says it's 99%. Doesn't seem to be a very good investment if there is a 53% humidity swing between the $12 model and the $20 model. I guess I don't understand the craze behind something that doesn't work that well. Is it because they are cheap?

The other thing is that I was told by a lot of people when I first got on this forum that snakes weren't smart enough to go to the warm side of their tub, hence why we have to keep an ambient temp of at least 80 degree's through out the tub. I find this highly amusing considering some people think that their snake knows what day of the week it feeds, however the snake isn't smart enough to find the warm side of its tub. I don't know about you, but I find that to be effing hilarious. It seems to me that survival is key in these animals lives and when they are put in a situation where they have to make a decision by themselves, their instincts take over. Personally I feel that if you wave food in front of a snakes face (REGARDLESS OF WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK IT IS) the snake will eat if it's hungry. I have spent hours watching my snakes and learning their mannerisms and can physically watch them go from the cold side to the hot side.... My best guess is that their are cooling down and would like to warm back up. That seems to be pretty simple to figure out... or at least I thought so. Don't get me wrong none of my snakes have low temps... some of them just prefer the 80 degree side more than the 90 degree side and vice versa. BUT ALL OF THEM SWITCH SIDES A LOT THROUGH OUT THE DAY!

Anyway I just thought I would share that with everyone. Thanks for looking, and any knowledge on the accurite would be much appreciated.

---

I don't recall anyone saying that they were stupid. We HAVE said that they will choose security over thermoregulating. Not all of them, but especially shy ones will pick a favorite hide and not thermoregulate, which is why it's important to have identical hides on both sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elusivereptiles

Anyway I just thought I would share that with everyone. Thanks for looking, and any knowledge on the accurite would be much appreciated.

---

I find a lot of what you say on this forum amusing as well. I'll only address a few things concerning my experience and advice. Putting aside all anthropomorphism and going back to basics and my motivations for what I recommend to new keepers.

Quote:

---

I don't understand the craze behind something that doesn't work that well. Is it because they are cheap?

---

Accurites are recommended because they have a very good rate of reliability when compared to analog dial hygrometers. They are inexpensive and while sometimes a few of them don't work, I have found out of my 6 accurites, only 1 is off when compared to the group and other different brands of accurite. I also know that most of my accurites have gone for a swim in the water bowl at some time or another. I've given in to the fact that equipment gets broken and needs to be replaced periodically. (You should also check the batteries, sometimes they give weird readings if the batteries are close to dying, or there is substrate stuck in the back grid)

Quote:

---

The other thing is that I was told by a lot of people when I first got on this forum that snakes weren't smart enough to go to the warm side of their tub, hence why we have to keep an ambient temp of at least 80 degree's through out the tub.

---

I would love to see this post made by any relatively experienced member here. If you don't understand the motivation behind the idea of this recommendation, I'll go ahead and explain it again.
Ball pythons are shy snakes and will often choose security over thermoregulation or hunting. The risk of illness is multiplied when the improper temperature gradient is in the cage and the snake again chooses security over thermoregulation.

It's a keepers responsibility to minimize the risks to the animal(s) they are keeping, and by providing a temperature gradient that is neither too cool nor too hot will allow the snake the best chance to keep their immune system running a top speed. It IS possible to keep a snake with a temperature gradient as low as 75 degrees. Would I or others here ever recommend the new keeper that 75 is fine? No, I hope not. Most often the new keeper is not experienced enough to see he subtle cues of oncoming sickness or stress.

Ball pythons will also refuse to feed if the husbandry or temps in the cage are not at optimal levels. Often why we recommend the ambient temps to be at or above 80. A 5 degree difference does make a world of difference to a cold blooded animal.

Another idea is the night time temp. If the day time temps are at 75, what are the night time temps at? 70? That is very cool for a tropical species and prolonged exposure to cool temps can take a toll on the immune system.

I know your argument is that the snake will seek out heat if too cool. That is fundamentally true.

A snake given a hot spot of 95, and cool end of 75 will be seen thermoregulating very regularly. Trying to keep itself at the optimal temperature. They expend energy going back and forth in this manner, revealing themselves from their secure hides to transition back and forth from cool to hot. With neither end being at the most comfortable state, do you expect anything different?

This constant moving back and forth can also impact their first need of security. Feeling insecure can again lead to problems of stress related illness or non feeding.


By offering our ball pythons an optimal temp, they can spend time in their hides without the need to thermoregulate too often and improve our chances of successful keeping.

It isn't about if they are smart enough, it's about fulfilling their most instinctual needs. Security appears by all means to be the most important need to ball pythons.

Quote:

---

I find this highly amusing considering some people think that their snake knows what day of the week it feeds, however the snake isn't smart enough to find the warm side of its tub.

---

Do snakes know it's saturday? Of course not. But my snakes do know that feeding day is a very regular set time apart. This is evidenced in their mannerisms with and without stimulation.

My snakes are fed saturday night.

On sunday through monday, they are satiated and hiding while they digest their meal. Tuesday through thursday they are curious, brought out to be held and admired. They are not being stimulated by any rat scents and are just doing what snakes do.

Friday, we clean out their water cups. They aren't held so much, but neither are they all awaiting feed. Some of my more enthusiastic feeders like the Sumatrans will be expecting a rat, but a simple touch on the head lets them know it is still not feeding day. BUT, they know it is close. That is still all without stimulation of scent.

Saturday morning... walk into the room and most if not all of their heads pop out of the hides. They are tense and on a hair trigger. Opening of the tub and they will immediately tongue flick, are twitchy, watching all heat sources. Some will strike. These animals are all locked and loaded and are not being stimulated by any scent whatsoever. They KNOW it's been a period of time, and it is feeding day. I do not handle on feeding day.

Saturday night, rats are brought in, pre-scent, then feeding. Awesome feeding responses, brought on by prescenting, regular amount of time. I have no doubt that most if not all of my snakes have learned the amount of time that passes between feeding days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Accurites have probes too. :rolleyes:

---

But that probe is for temp, not humidity. The humidity is read by the base unit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FloridaHogs

But that probe is for temp, not humidity. The humidity is read by the base unit.

---

You are correct! I was not quite awake when I posted! ;)

I will respond to the Accurite section for the OP since I feel Connie represented the rest of the post extremely well. :gj:
I have 14 Accurites- well, 13 now since one was plopped into a sink filled with water :weirdface
With good batteries inside they all read within an acceptable range of each other; one or two degrees and very close humidity. I count on the Accurite to give me a quick glance of the ambient temps and to give me a humidity read. I have a temp gun for spot on temp accuracy. I know that my humidity is within what the unit says because my snakes shed perfectly every single time and that is proof enough for me.

I have to get a new acurite... mine got pissed on lol...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FloridaHogs

But that probe is for temp, not humidity. The humidity is read by the base unit.

---

Your kidding:O Poor Lesser... I misted his tank so much trying to get my probe to read the humidity higher:oops: I thought that I had a faulty accurite! He did however have a great shed...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I would love to see this post made by any relatively experienced member here. If you don't understand the motivation behind the idea of this recommendation, I'll go ahead and explain it again.

---

So now you make assumptions about how experienced a keeper I am because you feel I took a shot at you? Very mature! :(


When did I ever say anything about ANY recommendations or the motivation behind a recommendation?

I simply stated that "I was told by A LOT OF PEOPLE" not necessarily you (CONNIE) said that snakes weren't smart enough to find the hot side of their tub, which is why we have to keep gradient temps. I NEVER disagreed with the fact that we have to keep gradient temps.

I agree that we have to keep gradient temps, so that our snakes can thrive and be prosperous. There really isn't ANY argument there. But making a statement that the snake isn't smart enough to find the hot side of their tub is absurd. Now will they pick the cool side if they feel more secure there? Sure! But don't speak of personal experience like that is the ONLY way it happens, because your snakes are different than anyone else's. Snakes share tons of similarities, especially when it comes to environment, BUT ALL SNAKES ARE DIFFERENT... Lets call them personalities... You (CONNIE) more than anyone should realize the inconsistency of that statement since you feel your snakes know when feeding day is. Those must be some smart snakes eh?

The fundamentals of reading...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elusivereptiles

So now you make assumptions about how experienced a keeper I am because you feel I took a shot at you? Very mature! :(


When did I ever say anything about ANY recommendations or the motivation behind a recommendation?

I simply stated that "I was told by A LOT OF PEOPLE" not necessarily you (CONNIE) said that snakes weren't smart enough to find the hot side of their tub, which is why we have to keep gradient temps. I NEVER disagreed with the fact that we have to keep gradient temps.

I agree that we have to keep gradient temps, so that our snakes can thrive and be prosperous. There really isn't ANY argument there. But making a statement that the snake isn't smart enough to find the hot side of their tub is absurd. You (CONNIE) more than anyone should realize the inconsistency of that statement since you feel your snakes know when feeding day is. Those must be some smart snakes eh?

The fundamentals of reading...

---

So, what is your point to this post and thread? I don't understand what you're trying to say. :weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starmom

So, what is your point to this post and thread? I don't understand what you're trying to say. :weirdface

---

The post is about accurites and smart snakes... The originality of the post was pretty self explanatory or so I thought... sorry for any confusion.

Sorry if you are offended because I chose to retort to a post that the person obviously didn't read, or didn't understand.. either way it's bad.

I've talked with an Accurite cust. serv. rep. when one of mine went on the blink after only being about 6 mos. in use. She said occas, even if they get wet (like pi$$ed on...water bowl) you can set it aside, let it dry out. Not always, but they'll usu. still work. When mine had the display going piecemeal, even w/a new battery, that's a known defect for that unit, and they sent me a replacement for free.

If you drop the accurite in water, put it in a bowl of dried rice. The rice will help suck any moisture out of the device. Works for cell phones at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elusivereptiles

So now you make assumptions about how experienced a keeper I am because you feel I took a shot at you? Very mature! :(

---

It's amazing the written word isn't it? Take something out of context and it has a whole slew of new meanings.

The original post that you quoted of mine was followed by a quote from you stating that snakes are stupid. My response was simply that no relatively experienced person here would say that snakes are stupid. My bad for not spelling it out more clearly.

I believe it looked exactly like this, with the text I was addressing bolded very clearly.

Quote:

---

The other thing is that I was told by a lot of people when I first got on this forum that snakes weren't smart enough to go to the warm side of their tub, hence why we have to keep an ambient temp of at least 80 degree's through out the tub.

---

Then my response:

Quote:

---

I would love to see this post made by any relatively experienced member here.

---

But if you would still like to read the entire post as one long insult towards you, that's your prerogative. I can only explain my poor writing skills with the best intentions in mind.

I also clearly stated that my experiences have proven to me that in no way are snakes stupid. They have clear priorities that often are the same as most other BP's.

The only way to surely prove this if I were to visit all of the BP's in existence, since this is clearly impossible, I can only assume that my small group of BP's all share something in common because it's in their nature.

Ok, you can continue to post some more flames... I'll be around. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

The original post that you quoted of mine was followed by a quote from you stating that snakes are stupid.

---

Where in my post did I say that snakes were stupid? I never did. I stated that a lot of people originally had told me that snakes weren't smart enough to find the hot side of their tub.... which I clearly disagree with.

Here is what I said:

"I was told by a lot of people" when I first got on this forum that snakes weren't smart enough to go to the warm side of their tub"

I fail to see how much more clear I can make that... but maybe it's just me.

You would also be correct in mentioning how amazing the written word is. Apparently the way I write isn't clear enough for some people to understand.

I get the impression that you feel I have a personal vendetta against you or something. This is far from the truth. I just feel like your responses towards me come across condescending (sometimes) as if I didn't already know or have any particular idea about anything you posted in this thread. When in fact I think it may be as little as you didn't quite understand what you read. I'm not calling you stupid, simply stating that it was a misunderstanding. You can call it "flaming" or whatever for that matter, but I simply wanted to clear up what I was talking about. And like I said you should understand more than anyone what I mean when I agree to the fact that snakes are smarter than sometimes given credit for. I mean after all your snakes are on a pretty tight regiment, and they get into a routine... and I'm sure they remember that. I can be humble... for instance I didn't know that the hydrometer sensor for the $12 accurite was on the unit and not part of the probe. I learned something that I didn't know previously. In your previous post about your snakes having a feeding schedule and knowing what day they feed... I wasn't trying to be a douche and flame you in any way. I was simply trying to get you to agree to the fact that the snake didn't know it was Saturday. I wasn't disagreeing with the fact that your snakes have a routine and that in your experiences they follow that routine... Just simply that they didn't know it was Saturday... But maybe I didn't make that clear enough either. Either way it's no big deal. Sorry for any confusion Connie <3 ;)

One last thing. I really like this forum and think that it's great that reptile supporters of all kinds can come together an share information, pictures and advice. So do I no way shape or form want to disrupt anyone or anything to prevent that from happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FloridaHogs

If you drop the accurite in water, put it in a bowl of dried rice. The rice will help suck any moisture out of the device. Works for cell phones at least.

---

I would have never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for the advice though :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elusivereptiles

I get the impression that you feel I have a personal vendetta against you or something.

---

LOL!! I honestly don't have anything against anyone here. I'm a horrible typer with poor writing skills, so sometimes I repeat myself over and over and over and beat the horse to a pulp.

When I write, I write with the general public in mind. Not anyone in particular, but that doesn't always come across in my posts. (and considering the tone of voice is non existent, the only way I can hope to come across is by the use of smileys, which I tend to only use for exuberant posts. )

I've noticed that when I'm in a bad mood and defensive, all the posts i read come across as an attack. Vice versa, if I'm in a goofy mood, I read everything as funny and a joke. It's all relative.

Like my post you have quoted, I again, didn't mean that you said and actually believe snakes are stupid. I know I wrote it that way, but it was a "you wrote" what people told you. I shouldnt have used the word 'stated', but that you "quoted" that people say snakes are stupid.

If you feel I'm searching your posts and finding you out, I think you should perhaps notice I write a little too much on here (I think I'm at 3200 posts now) and often forget where one certain subject came up and who was apart of the thread. That may be where the redundancy is coming from. If you and I continue to find the same subject and both write about it in several different threads... then I can see where you would think I'm stalking you.

I'm not. :gj: (<--- notice wink and thumbs up)

edit: also notice in my signature.... "INTERNET. SERIOUS BUSINESS." with either the "omg, onoz" or Mc hammer dancing. I'm a bit of a cynic, dry humored, sarcastic, and generally don't take things to seriously here, and when I do, I have to look at Mc Hammer and remember that it's not the end all. ;)

No worries Connie... I'm just glad we got that all worked out. <3 :)

I think the coolest thing in this discussion is about the brain anatomy and function of reptiles. Are they smart? What is smart? Can they learn? Do they have memory? Looking to our own R-Complex anatomy, it appears that OCD, PTSD, and Panic Disorder are all centered in the R-Complex anatomical region of the basal ganglia, and all the three parts (caudate, putamen, and globus pallidus) appear to be implicated in varying degrees (sorry, it's my career!)
Also, the cerebellum orchestrates movement, while the brain stem is the center for digestion, reproduction, circulation, breathing, and the execution of the "fight or flight" response in stress. Because the reptilian brain is primarily concerned with physical survival, the behaviors it governs have much in common with the survival behaviors of animals. It plays a crucial role in establishing home territory, reproduction and social dominance. The overriding characteristics of R-complex behaviors are that they are automatic, have a ritualistic quality, and are highly resistant to change.
So, when Connie says that her snakes "know" when feeding day is, I understand that to mean that due to the consistent and ritualized nature of Connie's feeding schedule, the snakes have picked up on that and have internalized it and are happy with it.
Are they too dumb to thermoregulate? No. Intelligence has really nothing to do with reptiles and an understanding of our current understanding of the R-Complex portion of our brain goes a long ways toward explaining the behaviors of our snakes. Much of what the established members on this forum suggest to new members of this forum exploit the natural functions of the snake for the benefit of the snake and for the ease of the herper.
This is about as clear as mud....huh?!

LOL Starmom! I like the post, it stimulates thoughts that I thought I would never associate with a BP.

I must say in my experience that snakes do have some sort of memory though, which is maybe brought on by some sort of a routine (like in Connies instance with her feeding schedule). But ones of the weirdest things that I've noticed is that when my wife holds our large pastel male he seems to latch onto her and not want to let go, where when I hold him he seems alot more relaxed and likes to explore more. Do you think that has something to do with his like or dislike of males and females? Or just that he remembers my smells and touch and prefers me over her? Food for thought anyway.

-Matt

Oh and I thought I might add... CONNIES A STALKER!!! :P:P:P j/k!