Next: Lesser vs Butter

Well, my little mojave female came in this morning. I knew when I got her one of the projects was to produce me a white animal. I know there are several ways to get that BEL I have been looking for. Mojave x Mojave = good. Lesser x Mojave = Better. Lesser x Lesser = the best, at least from what I have heard. I assume Butter x Mojave is probably about the same as a Lesser x Mojave.

I had thought about getting a lesser for several reason, one being the off chance that you actualy don't need a lesser sired from the platinum daddy or one of is "normal siblings" to produce a platinum daddy. I know according to everything, to produce a platinum, you need one of those animals sired by the platinum and a sib. otherwise no platty for you. It may be the same with butters too.

Right now I am thinking hey, these lessers are great, you can do a bunch of stuff with them and if I get a 2nd string lesser and end up with no platinums, I cannot say I would be suprised. I am not sure about the butters, they are probably about the same as far as genetics go.

Okay, enough rambling. The question I pose is simple...
One of the end results are a BEL. This was one of the intentions of the Mojave. Now I am thinking how do I want to go about it?
Get a Male lesser to breed her or a male Butter.

Butters are a bit harder to come by, they cost a little more (I think 1500). You don't see as many butters as you do lessers. On the other hand, I could get a lesser and use another 500 (or a bit more) bucks and find me a pretty pastel female.

So the question is:
Save for a
Lesser
or
Butter?

Both are sweet and very similar but I'm a lesser guy so... lesser

I have an incredible Butter who is been breeding many girls this year. I like that many Butters will get lighter as they age. I know mine has. Lessers are neat in that they are more likely to have a busy pattern. I'm hoping for some REALLY nice Butters as well as a combo or two!!! Butter -- that's the ticket.

i say Lesser but you could just make the lesser by breeding the butter to the mojave atleast thats what i think makes one im not sure im sure ill be corrected here very soon haha

i presonally like the green lessers get when they mature.
but ive seen some outrageous butter to.

but i say dont get a lesser in hopes of producing a platnum... only one person knows how to produce those, and even he's not entirely sure lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew420

i say Lesser but you could just make the lesser by breeding the butter to the mojave atleast thats what i think makes one im not sure im sure ill be corrected here very soon haha

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a butter is a natural morph the only way to make one is to get one...

I like them both, I would base my decision on a specific animal. There are good and bad of both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew420

i say Lesser but you could just make the lesser by breeding the butter to the mojave atleast thats what i think makes one im not sure im sure ill be corrected here very soon haha

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I'm almost positive lesser is a separate gene, so the only way you can get one is from a mommy or daddy lesser

oh but, I like the green a lot too, so I would say lesser

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew420

i say Lesser but you could just make the lesser by breeding the butter to the mojave atleast thats what i think makes one im not sure im sure ill be corrected here very soon haha

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Lessers are just lessers;) You cant make them. Butter to mojave would make more bels.

Now... when asking this question I would be a little less biased if I did not have a smokin Hot lesser in one of my tubs BUT... Id say Lesser anyways. Butters are nice, but I just do not like their coloring. The lessers Yellow(which I think makes a Good lesser) is super bright. How can you say no to this?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/IMGP2780.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/IMGP2778.jpg

Just be careful when picking a Lesser out, there are some pretty cheap/ugly ones out there.

I couldn't decide :juggle: so I got both!!! :D

hmm i had a feeeling i was wrong sorry about the bad info

I saw some butters on kingsnake for 700 bucks but not sure about that seller. :O

haha that was Big Daddy.. wont catch me buying from him

Whats the story with Big Daddy?:snake:

I'm lesser guy.

My vote was for the lesser, but I'm biased :D

Lesser....butter...doesn't matter, they both make white snakes. I'll likely eventually own a few of each of the "white snake complex".

Right now the votes are 40/60 lesser/butter. Im still thinking lesser right now and will probably directly to the source himself to get one. I have an itchy tigger finger right now just waiting for the right amount of funds and mood to fire off a deposit :D

lesser:)

Anybody got pics of a Mojave x Butter? I've seen the Mojave x Lesser and it had faint yellow striping, would the Butter make a cleaner BEL?

I love both, and I say buy for the snake not just one over the other, if you see a great lesser or great butter, get that one. The only upside of getting a lesser, is you could get a lesser from ralph that is from one of the platty daddy's he has if you're willing to spend the money and if you do that it's just a matter of getting one of the sibs. I'd normally say this shouldn't be a factor because ralph has only let go of two of the platty sibs if I'm not mistaken but I believe one of the ones he let go is now being bred to a lesser sired by a platty daddy so someone else has a chance of being the second person to produce a platty daddy. The name slips my mind at the moment but I'll see if I can dig it up later today.

I've got a lesser, because that's what was available when I was ready to buy one. Personally I think they're the same mutation.

I think there is a huge difference between mojaves and lessers, but I also think there is little if any difference between lessers and butters.

I don't have any of them yet, but I love them both.
If I had to pick one I would go with :tricho: aaaaa, I can't pick.:tears:

I love the lighter coloring of the butters as they mature. Here is a pic of my butter BEL. He's done his job breeding the ladies this season!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../adults076.jpg

haha i'd be a hog and say both but i voted lesser :)

I personally have a mojave male and plan to get a mojave female. I would like to make super mojave's crossed with other morphs. With the mojave BEL you have some pattern so when you cross it with another morph you will be able to see at least some.. Thats my theory anyhow.

Well, a lot of people voted and the tally as I make this post is nearly 50%

In case you are wondering, I fired off the remaining payment this afternoon on a 08 lesser platinum :O The daddy? A lesser / phantom lucy (Karma) :D

Don't have a photo of him yet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Both are sweet and very similar but I'm a lesser guy so... lesser

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Same here.

Butter bees are incredible animals, but then, so are Queen Bees...so...it all depends on which combos you want, and what you like best.

Seeing that I just got my butter today, I say BUTTER! I was at the Tinley show today and saw many butters and lessers. Atleast at this show, the lessers could not compare with the butters. Especially the butter male I got from the Bells. Crossing my fingers for some butterbees in the summer!

sound slike a ufc fight

Hi,

OK I seem to be selectively blind in this instance. :(

Can someone explain to me in words of 3 syllables or less how to tell the difference between lessers and butters?

Is it all colour, or is there a pattern difference? I feel so dumb for not being able to spot it. :oops:


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

OK I seem to be selectively blind in this instance. :(

Can someone explain to me in words of 3 syllables or less how to tell the difference between lessers and butters?

Is it all colour, or is there a pattern difference? I feel so dumb for not being able to spot it. :oops:


dr del

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I personaly believe butters and lessers are just different blood lines of the same gene, kind of like Axanthics. Butters do look to be a bit more hypo from what I have heard.

I also believe that lessers and butters, mojaves, phantoms are basicly different versions of the same gene but happen to be on a different loci (in other words the "damaged" gene is the same, but happens to be on a different chromosome)

But I don't really have a way to prove this and may be totaly wrong :weirdface

Lesser all day long, I like them both but If I had to choose I'm going with the Lesser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajeff

I personaly believe butters and lessers are just different blood lines of the same gene, kind of like Axanthics.

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I think there may be some newer Axanthic lines that are just different lines but the original VPI, TSK, and Jolliff lines appear to be different genes all together. They are just all called axanthics based on what the animal looks like but I think it would be more accurate to call them different mutations that different lines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajeff

I also believe that lessers and butters, mojaves, phantoms are basicly different versions of the same gene but happen to be on a different loci (in other words the "damaged" gene is the same, but happens to be on a different chromosome)

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While I do agree on those (and several others - Vin Russo, special, and hidden) appearing to be the same gene I don't think that gene moves at all (right?). I think they are just each mutated in slightly different ways. I'm not sure exactly how the start and end of a gene is defined but within the gene I believe there is a quite a bit of information and it looks like multiple different mistakes have happen to this particular gene.

I'm in this same boat too. I want to get a lesser or a butter this spring but I'm not sure which one I should get. I've seen Butters and Lessers on Kingsnake for about the same price but I don't really think I'd trust a $650 Butter from Kingsnake. I've seen a few lessers right now that I REALLY like but I highly doubt they'll be available in 5 months and if they are they won't be $650 lol.

Which one makes a cleaner BEL or are they about the same?

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Lesser all day long, I like them both but If I had to choose I'm going with the Lesser.

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Well I hope you'd rather want a lesser!:P

Who can tell the difference between a lesser and a butter?


http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=DSC00600.jpg
http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMGP8146.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Well I hope you'd rather want a lesser!:P

Who can tell the difference between a lesser and a butter?


http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=DSC00600.jpg
http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMGP8146.jpg

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1st one is the lesser at least thats the way it looks to me at least but sometimes they are so close its impossible to tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Well I hope you'd rather want a lesser!:P

Who can tell the difference between a lesser and a butter?


http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=DSC00600.jpg
http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMGP8146.jpg

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I'm gonna have to say the first one is a butter and the second one is a lesser. Although the second pic is just a little darker. Comparing the butters to the lessers I saw in person at the Tinley show, the butter have a darker golden tint to them then the lessers did.

I'm trying to find my darn camera that I've misplaced after the show this weekend otherwise I would snap some pics of the butter male I got from the Bells.

I wonder if anyone can tell me, How about butter x lesser?

I vote Butter! But only because I love the Butter male I picked up this year
from Garrick at Royal Constrictor. I'd like to get a female but might have to breed her out myself... patience, not a virtue I possess. It was Kevin at NERD that told me only the Lesser holds the hidden gene, not the Butter, which makes the Lesser more desirable.

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Originally Posted by tony tt

I wonder if anyone can tell me, How about butter x lesser?

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Thats easy, its a Blue eye lucy:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Thats easy, its a Blue eye lucy:)

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And this BEL will throw all butters and lessers when bred to a normal right? Not just all lessers or all butters.

Also do ALL lessers have the "hidden gene" or just ones from certain lines like the NERD line?

I really want a lesser or a butter as soon as I have a place to put some more snakes but like I said I still can't decide which one I want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Thats easy, its a Blue eye lucy:)

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Sorry, I wonder again. I will get pure white Blue eyes lucy, Is it?:please:

From what I've researched you never can tell if you'll get a PURE white snake. However everything I've seen points to Butter x Butter or Lesser x Lesser OR Butter x Lesser BELs being pure white or close to it while Mojo x Mojo crosses are a bit gray around the head.

Mojo x Lesser/Butter crosses are suppossed to be pretty white too as the Butter/Lesser cleans up the Mojo grey.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

And this BEL will throw all butters and lessers when bred to a normal right? Not just all lessers or all butters.

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That should be what happens, however the point that I made earlier is that you may not know which is which because I think they're basically the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

Also do ALL lessers have the "hidden gene" or just ones from certain lines like the NERD line?

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No lesser has a hidden gene, if they did they wouldn't be a lesser they'd be a platinum. The hidden gene that I believe Kevin is referring to comes from his womas which make interesting things happen when mixed with the lesser mutation, it would probably do the same when mixed with the butter line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

I really want a lesser or a butter as soon as I have a place to put some more snakes but like I said I still can't decide which one I want.

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Pick the individual that you like without regard to the line that it comes from.

I like lessers. The colors appeal to me on many levels. If you can see past the BEL (ie: potential projects) then the decision you make is the correct one. Best of luck. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Well I hope you'd rather want a lesser!:P

Who can tell the difference between a lesser and a butter?


http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=DSC00600.jpg
http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMGP8146.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

1st one is the lesser at least thats the way it looks to me at least but sometimes they are so close its impossible to tell.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by StickyTongues

I'm gonna have to say the first one is a butter and the second one is a lesser. Although the second pic is just a little darker. Comparing the butters to the lessers I saw in person at the Tinley show, the butter have a darker golden tint to them then the lessers did.

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LOL.....Those are both the same snake.......look at the pattern again.:P

I would say a lesser. My friends uncle is a bp breeder and to get bel's he only breeds lessers because he thinks they make a cleaner lookin bel. Im just gettin into bp's so i dont know a whole lot but in just going off of what he says cause he knows way more then me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lovepig78

i presonally like the green lessers get when they mature.
but ive seen some outrageous butter to.

but i say dont get a lesser in hopes of producing a platnum... only one person knows how to produce those, and even he's not entirely sure lol

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Actually someone else has produced Platinums by breeding a lesser to a "normal".....