Low quantity mice breeding

Hey everyone,

My friend currently has 2 bp's, one of which is a rescue that I will be taking in a few weeks. The rescue is quite a bit bigger than his (his eats 1 adult mouse, the rescue could do with 2). Neither have taken offered f/t, and my girlfriend and I would really prefer live feeding, for now at least (call me a naturalist, but I want the tank as real as possible, same should go for the feeders). I know most people say not to breed unless you have a lot of snakes to feed, but would low quantity breeding work since we are feeding all adults? The plan is for my girlfriend and I to breed/keep mice, which would be split up between my bp and my friends smaller one.

I think it would be possible to get a low frequency breeding set-up so that we are breeding 2-3 weeks worth of mice every litter, and replenish our breeders. With this, once we get everything set-up and stable, we would only have to breed every 2 weeks or so, then if we overpopulate, let off a week to feed off the few extras and start again a week later.

Let me know what you all think, or if you have a better schedule.

Also, I am planning on a couple tub set-up, but we also have a spare glass tank (15G i think)

go for it. just set up a tank / tub with 1.2 (1 male, two females) then go from there. If you are like most of us, your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th snake is only a few months away anyway.

My honest opinion is that everyone considering it should give it a go with moderation. for instance, in your case, go ahead and try a trio. just be prepared, and read up.

I can honestly say that raising my own feeders has made the hobby 10 times more enjoyable. For me, raising the feeders is as much fun as raising the snakes themselves.... Heck, sometimes even more fun!

Mike

I am iffy on multiple snakes. One, i would love having more snakes, but on the other hand, I am a very pet oriented person and I dont like the idea of getting to be a non-personal kind of keeper. Also, not sure my girlfriend would want more than 1 snake, and money is tight, so I think multiple snakes are at least a year, if not more, down the road, if they are ever to come.

I am majoring in Zoology and I think I am going to concentrate in genetics and deal with herps exclusively if I can. But that is a long way off, just finishing freshman year right now.

However, I will say that my sister (dating the aforementioned friend) is thinking about getting a snake for herself, though probably not a bp (she likes boas). If this happens (few months at least, then I am pretty sure the breeding would be a smart choice)

Once all of the snakes are big enough for rats, would switching to rats be a good idea, or would they grow to be too big too fast?

wrong thread...

you could Get a 1.3 group, and every time they get pregnant feed off the male and raise one of the new males or breeding? This would result in slow breeding and not over run you:gj: Though feeding off a breeding male makes my left eye twinge a little... breeding male mice are blessings in furry coats. So, separate that male until you need more babies!

This may be a stupid question, but I assume it is fairly easy to tell males and females apart?

Yes, Males have HUGE balls:) I also find that males grow a lot faster, even before their tidbits drop. Every time i'll see a batch of huge mice in my weaner bin and I can tell that they will be males.

Breeding your own mice and/or rats is a nice way to go. I did that myself many years ago, but tired of the smell and the care they needed. So far, everything I have will eat F/T.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

I am iffy on multiple snakes. One, i would love having more snakes, but on the other hand, I am a very pet oriented person and I dont like the idea of getting to be a non-personal kind of keeper.

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I can say from personal experience that having more snakes still allows you to be pet oriented. :) I currently have 8 total (4 corns and 4 BPs(one being shipped Thursday)) and they ALL still receive attention and love as pets. Yes I have that many because I plan to breed smalltime down the road, but these guys are my pets before all else.

As for small breeding of mice, Just keep it to one trio (1 male 2 females). I have three trios and if they all produced at the same time I would be so swamped! And I have 8 snakes...

I have considered small time breeding down the road too (5+ years off at least), I mostly say I'm iffy on it because I really cant afford more snakes yet, and if I say i will get less attached, it makes it easier to realize i cant have more yet :(

Eh.. I breed rats for feeders, on a relatively small scale (one male, 12 females.) I rotate it so that there is always a few litters in various stages of growth. It is tough; you'll have times of feast, and times of famine. I had months with nothing.. now I am euthanizing and freezing hoppers because if not, they'll outgrow their usefulness, as my adult female BPs are not feeding now, in the midst of breeding.
If I only had 1-3 snakes, I personally would jsut buy feeders. I'd get them on frozen/thawed and stock up on the sizes I would want. Since I have snakes growing at all sizes now, breeding rats is fine because it works for me, but it IS more work than keeping the snakes themselves! With daily feed/watering, bedding changes.. etc..

Allright, I put together an Excel Spreadsheet of a feeding and breeding schedule. I have no idea how to get it to anyone on the forums to look at, other than personal email's to those w/ experience that would be willing to look over for me. I am finally going to bed, but if anyone thinks they can help out and is willing to take a look, let me know. Thanks.

We started breeding rats and we started with the selectively choosing ones from pet stores. We currently have 1 mother with babies that should be weaned this week. 3 other mothers with babies that are only a couple days old. 2 expecting moms. 6 females that are split into groups of 3 in with males currently. Another mom that lost her litter, but since then has adopted 3 pups (about 1 week old) we bought at the expo as an experiment to see if she would do it. 8 other girls being raised for breeding that are about 2 months old. Then some other odds and ends. We also have some mice we are trying to get cycling. One of them had babies a couple days ago. The other had babies about 2 months ago and is housed with her 5 daughters and a male was just introduced!

Only problem with picking up breeders from pet stores is a lot of the time we have gotten them and they were already prego! Makes it hard to know when they are going to pop and then housing multiples together does not work unless they deliver close to one another. More than 3 days apart and problems occur!

You can also look at options if you do get a bit overrun with extra feeders (other than the obvious of trying to control the breedings of course). Some private pet stores will take good quality live rodents in exchange for store credit, also look into any local herp or raptor rescues that might like the occasional prey donation, check and see if you have a local herp club where you might be able to sell off spares, post at BPNet if you have extras in case another member lives close and would like to purchase them - just a few ideas.

I got in contact with my herp club here at MSU, so that is an option, but the only pet store that I know of that can take them already breeds a ton of their own. What I really want is for someome to look at my schedule and tell me if it looks workable. It is similar to the one in the sticky, but I think I might have put the birth a week too early after the breeding week.

You can take a screen shot and upload the picture to an album like photobucket, then post the image.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

You can take a screen shot and upload the picture to an album like photobucket, then post the image.

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That was my original plan, but when I take the s/s I cant find the image file.

Lol, go into a program like paint or photoshop and open a new image. Then you paste the image onto the template. Crop and save, then upload ;)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...preadSheet.jpg

Had to copy paste it into paint, then go from there, thanks.

Awww, I get it to work and no one knows if it looks like it is right?

For mice? I don't know anything about mice breeding, but do you want 4 weeks in between when the mice are ready to be fed? I don't expect you'll be feeding pinky and fuzzy mice are you?

Honestly, if you wanted to do a small operation for 2 snakes, I would harem breed all at once and CO2 them when they are old enough. Just my thoughts.

If this were rats, I could give you better advice.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

For mice? I don't know anything about mice breeding, but do you want 4 weeks in between when the mice are ready to be fed? I don't expect you'll be feeding pinky and fuzzy mice are you?

Honestly, if you wanted to do a small operation for 2 snakes, I would harem breed all at once and CO2 them when they are old enough. Just my thoughts.

If this were rats, I could give you better advice.

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I am breeding because they only eat live, and live are too expensive to buy all the time. We are a little partial to feeding live, so euthanasia is out of the question. Based on other posts and online sites and stuff, it looked like 8 weeks would be an adult mouse ready to feed. Does this need to be extended to get bigger?

Why not do like another member here. She finds a mouse breeder and buys as many as she needs for a month or 2, and sets them up in her quarters and feeds and waters them. She buys bulk, so it's cheap (think reptile show or private breeder, get in touch with me later) and if they breed, good stuff, if not, then it doesnt matter.

I know you think it's cheaper to raise... but is it really? Taking into account all the hassle of first getting mice to breed (notorious for cannibalism) and the amount of feed, housing... It does get pricey.

I don't want to discourage you, just trying to give you ideas. I can't imagine waiting 8 weeks for a litter is much fun, but if the litters are consistent and enough to keep 2 snakes fed for 8 weeks, then yes, in theory it should work. Just don't put 100% reliability on mice. (from others experience)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Why not do like another member here. She finds a mouse breeder and buys as many as she needs for a month or 2, and sets them up in her quarters and feeds and waters them. She buys bulk, so it's cheap (think reptile show or private breeder, get in touch with me later) and if they breed, good stuff, if not, then it doesnt matter.

I know you think it's cheaper to raise... but is it really? Taking into account all the hassle of first getting mice to breed (notorious for cannibalism) and the amount of feed, housing... It does get pricey.

I don't want to discourage you, just trying to give you ideas. I can't imagine waiting 8 weeks for a litter is much fun, but if the litters are consistent and enough to keep 2 snakes fed for 8 weeks, then yes, in theory it should work. Just don't put 100% reliability on mice. (from others experience)

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I never really thought about feeders at shows, good call. How much is it typically? I think there are pretty consistent shows around here, at least one a month, which would not be bad. Thanks

Mice are cheap. You have Kalamazoo, G.R., Taylor (d-town). Taylor usually has a handful of rodent breeders, and there is always a multitude of mice to be had.

I love your spreadsheet, but unfortunately with a small colony, you'd never be able to count on nature following your plan, hehe...

It took a good year before my mouse colony was consistent and dependable, between me figuring enclosures, schedules and my animals, getting a good buck and mommas, etc., and getting a routine going.

But having said that, I think it's fun. As my two mouse eaters take adult mice, I try to always have adult and/or grow out mice available. If I get too many, euthanize and freeze (but then one of my two mouse eaters will take F/T, so there you go). =)

Anyone have any idea how much live mice are at reptishows?

I wanna say .60-.80 a mouse?

Here's what I do regularly:

I go to Big Cheese Rodents in Ft Worth, buy 275 live medium adult mice. They run me $0.45 apiece. The Petco around me sells them for $2 apiece, so no thanks. Even with gas the way it is, I come out WAY ahead.

OR

Get a cement mixing tub and make a lid for it, or get a big tank(20 long or bigger). Get 8-10 young female mice(small adult) and 2-3 young adult males. Leave them COMPLETELY alone other than food and water, and changing the cage once a week. Putting them in a closet or in a bedroom where they get minimal disturbance will ensure that they won't get stressed.

After a month or so, you should have babies. Do not touch, bother or otherwise mess with the cage or nest for a good week after the babies are born. When you clean, grab the whole nest and babies, with gloves on if you can, and transfer them to a holding tub or bucket. Put the adults in another container so they aren't trying to grab babies and moving them. Clean the cage quickly and put everyone back as soon as possible.

Food-wise, they need a higher protein diet. Mine get Mazuri 9F(16% protein and 9% fat), plus some dog food, black oil sunflower seeds and old-fashioned(slow cooking) oatmeal. They get cheerios every now and then too.

The main thing with mice is to LEAVE THEM ALONE. They will do their thing and you'll have litters of mice coming out your ears soon. If you notice a female dragging babies around more than she should, or stealing, or eating babies(attacking them, and only eating their heads or whatever, not cleaning up a baby that has died naturally), immediately cull her.

If you have any questions, let me know :)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I wanna say .60-.80 a mouse?

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And rats?, since mine would be able to handle a little bigger prey, then I wouldnt have to multi-feed.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

And rats?, since mine would be able to handle a little bigger prey, then I wouldnt have to multi-feed.

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I havent bought many live rats from the show, but I would think they are close to the same price. Any one can correct me if I'm wrong about Taylor. I think it was like a 1$ for a small rat (older than weanling). He was infested with mites and lice. So here I am advising you to buy mice from a show, yet I won't ever do it lol. Well anyways, there are several vendors with mice and rats, just do a little shopping. I was in a rush when I bought mine and didn't pay attention to anything.

Now I could be horribly overstating the price, I just don't want to say it's going to cost you .50$ for a rat, then have it be a dollar ya know?

Yeah, I see what you mean. I called a vendor that goes to the Kzoo show, and they large mice are 55 cents, small rats at a dollar fifty. 2.50 for larger rats.

Then I got an idea, if my plan simply put too much emphasis on the mice doing what they are supposed to, what about breeding in sets like a lot of other people do. Breed 1:3, and get 3 litters born around the same time. This would give me about 30 mice, enough for a solid two months of feeding both snakes,

nevermind, i am getting way too confused about this. I'll think abuot what my idea is and state it later.

What about this?
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...adsheet1v2.jpg

Allright, another question. If I decided not to breed, how many mice can be in various tub sizes? If I was buying from a vendor, I would buy females so we dont have to worry so much about smell and the males fighting, and if I bred, I would...need a lot of tubs....yeah, so I am 99% not going to breed.