What qualifies someone as "experienced"?

I've been browsing through some old threads today, and there is a lot of talk about certain species not being "beginner" herps. This is fine, I would tend to agree. But where do we draw the line between "beginner" and "experienced"?

How does the general community here base it? I'm just curious because people tend to say, "That animal isn't for beginners," rather than saying, "That animal is better suited to someone who has kept a similar species for several years."

What qualifies someone as "experienced"? :confused:


*I know I used snakes in the poll. I meant this to apply to all herps, though. I only keep snakes so I did it out of habit. Sorry, guys.

To me, Experience is something that is gained over years and years. A snake for experienced people, is a snake for someone who has kept multiple snakes for sometime, and knows the general knowledge of snakes.

Maybe not with that particular species but you have to start somehwere right. An expert is someone that has a lot of "training" in the snake field. I have had snakes for almost 17 years, but I am by no means an expert, becuase I have only had 20-30 snakes. Talk about someone who has had 100-200 snakes for 17 years, they are prolly an expert.

Hope that helps.

Someone that knows the different views on things, and has personally tried each, or has ruled them out by reason of danger. Someone that can from personal experience give advice and not parrot it, and someone that can take the normal care and ideas, and bring them to the next level on his own. And understands each idea fully, and can explain his belief's.

I don't think you need to own 20 herps, or 30,000 herps to be experienced, Or a Expert, Its more of your ideas, thought process, way you portray them, and a greater then average understanding of ideas.

That from a knowledge standpoint. From a practical experience, There are situations that cause people to extend there knowledge and ideas faster then others, like someone who has a animal Diagnosed with a illness, they will look into so many aspects (from meds, to supportive care, to husbandry ext. ), than someone that may have kept the type of animal 10x longer, but never had a problem.

But with anything, its putting the things you learned to practice and building on them, and being able to understand concepts of care, and perform them.

Breeding is not it, Most people can get 2 snakes, keep them together, the female lays eggs, and self incubates, they hatch. Keeping the babies alive, healthy, along with adults more describes the persons experience. But anyone that hatches eggs dont get a title.

Not everyone can keep 70% humidity for a BRB, or keep a 15ft snake. These may be more for experienced keepers, for example someone with experience with Ball pythons can move up to larger snakes, or someone with other snake experience understands the trouble of humidity at times.

From the Care sheet and general talk standpoint this is more of my views:
Beginner in my mind is basic care, they can do fine with minimal work and understanding. They don't have many problems health or husbandry, and overall they are a hardy animal that thrives with ease in captivity.

Experienced in my mind is a animal that is not for everyone, This does not mean they need to know snakes inside and out, but be able to handle the extra responsibilities and problems, along with care aspects that follow with the species. The more experience in general with the species, or others make the transition easier, but will not take any large burden thats different carewise than anyone else. Someone that keeps 800 snakes probably keeps them similar to somone that keeps 3, for example with ball pythons, (not just for experienced, in between IMO, but just an example), basic care includes housing, belly heat, stable humidity, and rodents, this is the same in both large operations, and pets.

Expert is training in that field, or enough knowledge in that field to train others, For example the breeders that started off captive snake breeding, Experts in reptiles, Probably not, but over time have gained what they needed, and are respected, revered and thought of as experts.

I guess though someone can get a Retic, Burm, GTP, or BRB or Beardie, Or Iguana, Monitor, Chameleons, Uromastyx ext. If you understand there care, are committed to it, and can on a regular basis meet its needs and provide what it needs, along with handling the other aspects of it. You dont have to be a Expert or Experienced to take care of a animal correctly, but you should be able to comprehend what to do, come up with ideas, and keep the animal healthy and happy.
Ben

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Originally Posted by Crazydude

Someone that knows the different views on things, and has personally tried each, or has ruled them out by reason of danger. Someone that can from personal experience give advice and not parrot it, and someone that can take the normal care and ideas, and bring them to the next level on his own. And understands each idea fully, and can explain his belief's.

I don't think you need to own 20 herps, or 30,000 herps to be experienced, Or a Expert, Its more of your ideas, thought process, way you portray them, and a greater then average understanding of ideas.

That from a knowledge standpoint. From a practical experience, There are situations that cause people to extend there knowledge and ideas faster then others, like someone who has a animal Diagnosed with a illness, they will look into so many aspects (from meds, to supportive care, to husbandry ext. ), than someone that may have kept the type of animal 10x longer, but never had a problem.

But with anything, its putting the things you learned to practice and building on them, and being able to understand concepts of care, and perform them.

Breeding is not it, Most people can get 2 snakes, keep them together, the female lays eggs, and self incubates, they hatch. Keeping the babies alive, healthy, along with adults more describes the persons experience. But anyone that hatches eggs dont get a title.

Not everyone can keep 70% humidity for a BRB, or keep a 15ft snake. These may be more for experienced keepers, for example someone with experience with Ball pythons can move up to larger snakes, or someone with other snake experience understands the trouble of humidity at times.

From the Care sheet and general talk standpoint this is more of my views:
Beginner in my mind is basic care, they can do fine with minimal work and understanding. They don't have many problems health or husbandry, and overall they are a hardy animal that thrives with ease in captivity.

Experienced in my mind is a animal that is not for everyone, This does not mean they need to know snakes inside and out, but be able to handle the extra responsibilities and problems, along with care aspects that follow with the species. The more experience in general with the species, or others make the transition easier, but will not take any large burden thats different carewise than anyone else. Someone that keeps 800 snakes probably keeps them similar to somone that keeps 3, for example with ball pythons, (not just for experienced, in between IMO, but just an example), basic care includes housing, belly heat, stable humidity, and rodents, this is the same in both large operations, and pets.

Expert is training in that field, or enough knowledge in that field to train others, For example the breeders that started off captive snake breeding, Experts in reptiles, Probably not, but over time have gained what they needed, and are respected, revered and thought of as experts.

I guess though someone can get a Retic, Burm, GTP, or BRB or Beardie, Or Iguana, Monitor, Chameleons, Uromastyx ext. If you understand there care, are committed to it, and can on a regular basis meet its needs and provide what it needs, along with handling the other aspects of it. You dont have to be a Expert or Experienced to take care of a animal correctly, but you should be able to comprehend what to do, come up with ideas, and keep the animal healthy and happy.
Ben

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Where is the button that reads "what he said"! ;) Excellent post btw!

Agree..that was beautifully said.

lol, too long to read

I think Ben hit it right one the head to me there are many things that play into being experienced in herping. to me there are two different types of experience:

First is the careful read-study-learn then slowly do and start taking small steps forward in what they know and how they approach certain situations. For the most part I fall into this category.

Second trial by fire, Pass/fail, no second chances you either act or suffer the outcome. I know a few keepers like this. How many people have ever sewn the still beating heart of a baby Ball python back in to its chest with dental floss and had it live to grow. How many of us have resuscitated a DOA hot with mouth to mouth. Or taken in a blind rescue and had it make a full recovery from burns, bites and infections. These are things that to me are far more impressive. The person that says I act or it dies and jump in head first with nothing but the animal in mind and put it all out there to see the animal live.

I think the real distinction is between "experienced" and "expert". Anyone can become experienced by keeping a large collection or large variety of animals, but experience doesn't always (and often doesn't) equal knowledgeable or competent. There are a good number of people with large collections that are little better than novices, and likewise many with smaller collections that could easily be considered intermediate to expert keepers.

Simply put, when it comes to being an expert (in any field), it's all about having a substantial store of knowledge, and having enough experience to understand and discern when it's applicable.

I think the word experience refers mostly to participation. But, I would not discount intelligence. Some people participate for a very long time in a given endevor and remain clueless, while others seem to really understand things very quickly. When I hire people to work for me I look for personality and intelligence above experience. Anyone can participate, but not everyone is smart.

This is kind of a double edged sword. I think that is has to do with having a large collection, and your knowledge of the snakes. Nearly can spend 100s of thousands on snakes and not know what they are doing. They would have a large collection, and be inexperienced. Its the people that have kept them alive, and have known about repitle husbandry that have become the experts. I am sure they are many that have failed as well. The experts learn from trial and error I agree, but also from having large collections, OR having several species. You could own one snake for 30 years, and not be an expert. You had better sure know how to take care of that 1 snake though
:D :D :D

I just dont see how large collections fit into this, Can someone explain?

Any guy (or gal) can go out and buy a bunch of snakes if he has the money, keep them awhile ext. This does not make him experienced. Just says that he has alot of snakes. There are people that get into snakes just for the monetary value, they start off with 4-5 morphs on the first order, and just read the breeders caresheets. A person with 1 that has had it for awhile arguably has more experience.

The whole large collection=experience is a coincidence, not a fact. Id say Adam of 8ball, Kevin and Kara of NERD, Ralph Davis... ext. Are experienced and probably experts, but because of that expertise they have built buisnesses around large numbers of animals. Not have all those animals and all of a suden be experts/experienced.

Several species makes you well versed, but id rather talk to someone that just keeps ball pythons and is more experienced in just that area on ideas about Balls, than someone that has general reptile knowledge, overall though its good to have all of those to be better versed in reptiles in general. Many things I learned through my beardie carried over to my ball python regardless the species gap.

Experts are the ones IMO that advance the hobby, they are the people that research UVB in reptiles, and rate the bulbs, Deal with infectious diseases and make steps to help prevent them, make advances in medical techniques, breeding techniques so on and so forth.

I guess I just miss the connection of large collections to experienced, Its a relation, not a rule.

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Lol, too long to read

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Sorry, that and rewording things in different posts is a slight problem of mine ;) :rolleye2:

Does a person keeping a snake in a cage compare to a person observing the same snake in its natural environment?

Does a person great at creating 'natural' captive environments for reptiles have the same experience as a person creating a 'breeding' captive environment for reptiles?

Does a person caring for 200 snakes with no illnesses have less experience than a person has rehabilitated 5 snakes?

There are so many different criteria for deciding who is an expert and who is a novice. There are also many things involving reptiles that some can have a vast amount of knowledge and experience of one topic, but lack experience in another topic that is equally important.

With 'large collections' as an example...

People with large collections generally have experiences quicker with captive reptiles since the more animals you have the more can go wrong or right. But someone spending day and night caring for a captive collection might have little experience observing wild reptiles. People with large collections may have more experience with 'collection management'; however, people with small collections can explore more 'exotic' husbandry techniques than some with large collections. Collection size really has nothing to do with some aspects of reptiles. Those with large collections are just that....Experienced with managing large collections. With large collections you can also subdivide it....large collections of individual species, large collections of multiple species, large collections while running a business, large privite collections, zoo reptile collections.....so many different things to be experience in.

Experience depends on the topic........and there are alot of topics available when reptiles are to be discussed.

great post and excellent ideas daniel!

I agree with all the point made so far.

Just having a ton of snakes on your basement means absolutely nothing.

And I agree that being "experienced' and being an "expert" are two very different things. However, neither requires actually owning anything. The zookeeper who cares for the king cobra in the reptile house for 10+ years is definitely experienced, but may not be an expert. And likewise, the field biologist who studies dart frogs in the rainforest for several years may be considered an expert, but not necessarily experienced.

Experience is more hands on. You can a dozen books about cornsnakes but until you "get your hands dirty" and start taking care of them and breeding them yourself, you're only skimming the surface.

Expertise, IMO, is separate from just having experience with a particular species, but years of learning from others, observing the animals' behaviors, knowing their A&P, etc...along with a little experience.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

I think the real distinction is between "experienced" and "expert". Anyone can become experienced by keeping a large collection or large variety of animals, but experience doesn't always (and often doesn't) equal knowledgeable or competent. There are a good number of people with large collections that are little better than novices, and likewise many with smaller collections that could easily be considered intermediate to expert keepers.

Simply put, when it comes to being an expert (in any field), it's all about having a substantial store of knowledge, and having enough experience to understand and discern when it's applicable.

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We must be on the same wavelength or something.. I agree! No need to re-invent the wheel on my part.