Newcomer looking to jump into the scene.

Hey, folks. I've been lurking around here for a while, and I've been interested in getting a snake since last August or so, just haven't followed through and actually went for it yet. But in the meantime I've read these forums front to back, picking up information and learning myself but good in preparation for getting a BP. I'd like to say I now know enough to jump into this by myself, with no advisory, and maybe I'm just slightly slow at picking up information and adding two plus two, but there's tons of different and opposing bouts of advice and information on this site, and I'm having trouble deciding the best route to take. Basically, I just want to do this right. I understand that BPs are quite fragile and need to be taken care of in a certain way, and it's all a little overwhelming actually. So, the purpose of this thread is to hopefully get me setup nicely and instill a bit of assurance in my ability.

Firstly, after mulling over the technicalities (and cost), I've decided I'm going to take the tub route. Also, I'm not currently equipped with enough green to make a state of the arch enclosure with the best accouterments and such, so I'd really like to do this as cheaply as possible (under $150, snake included). So, for a tub, being made for a baby BP, I would need exactly these bare basics: (You fill in this part.)

The next thing is I'm not sure where to get the BP. I'm not sure of any breeders around here, or how I'd go about finding any. There are a few good shops around here that sell them. One being PetCo (don't know much about them, but they look more respectable than a lot of the others), and a local place called The Aquatic Critter, which is a very fine establishment that focuses only on exotic fish, and exotic reptiles. I've checked them out, and I can get a baby BP, captive-bred, for $50 (if it's purchased during breeding season). Is that good? Or would I be better off tracking down a breeder? Any help would be very much appreciated, as I'm getting quite ancy to get the ball rolling, so to speak. Thanks all.

I'll fill in the blanks for you as far as a tub goes...
If you just have a tub (not in a rack) you'll need a UTH and a thermostat to control the temps of the UTH. You'll need a digital thermometer/hygrometer (Acurite=12 bucks). You'll need a water dish and 2 hides. Paper for the substrate is free (newspaper). I think that's it....
The initial outlay of money can be more than one might expect, but it makes total sense to purchase these items and have your tub temps and humidity stable prior to purchasing a snake.
Insofar as the purchase of a snake is concerned, I would strongly suggest purchasing through a breeder. Petco is a store to stay out of for a myriad of reasons; just do a search for Petco!!
Hope this gets you started!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

I'll fill in the blanks for you as far as a tub goes...
If you just have a tub (not in a rack) you'll need a UTH and a thermostat to control the temps of the UTH. You'll need a digital thermometer/hygrometer (Acurite=12 bucks). You'll need a water dish and 2 hides. Paper for the substrate is free (newspaper). I think that's it....
The initial outlay of money can be more than one might expect, but it makes total sense to purchase these items and have your tub temps and humidity stable prior to purchasing a snake.
Insofar as the purchase of a snake is concerned, I would strongly suggest purchasing through a breeder. Petco is a store to stay out of for a myriad of reasons; just do a search for Petco!!
Hope this gets you started!

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Thanks, it certainly does give me an outline. As for the tub, what size should I get for a baby? And, the amount of holes I drill in is dictated by the size of the tub, correct? I'll take your word on PetCo, but as far as a breeder goes, how would I go about tracking one down? I'm in Tennessee, if it's of interest. There isn't like, ads in the newspaper, or a website dedicated to that sort of thing, is there?

The size tub is dictated, to a degree, by the size of the snake. So, if you're getting an '08 ball, then I would start with a 16qt tub. The holes are dictated by the amount of humidity already in your environment. It's easy to tape some up if you've put too many in and easy to add more if not enough.

As for breeders, since you're on the east coast there are a bajillion!!! I only have experience with the east coast breeders NERD and 8Ball; both are top notch!!
There are tons more, just look through the ads on this forum and use the forum's search tool for breeders. Most breeders are amazing stand-up people!

Good luck searching for that perfect snake!!!!!

If you say where you're from, you might well find a breeder right here on BPnet. That's what I did when I got my girl.
As for the hides/water bowl, what wasn't mentioned is that these can even be just plastic bowls, turned over and with a small hole cut out for the hides. You can also use a planter saucer with a part of the lip cut out, which can sometimes look a little nicer.
For under tank heating, you can also use a piece of heat tape from Reptile Basics instead of buying a UTH, so you can save a little money that way. If you buy a wire/clip/insulator set with it, and ask for it prewired, Rich will even do it for free, so all you have to do is plug it in. http://www.reptilebasics.com/Heating-p-1-c-248.html
If you know anything about wiring and soldering though, it seems to be pretty easy to do it yourself. You can do a google search for flexwatt wiring and find a DIY guide. You just need an extension cord, soldering iron setup, and some insulating tape.

The only big money item left is really the thermostat. You can get a herpstat for about 109 http://spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat.html it's a proportional thermostat which is really nice and will probably be worth it in the long run. You can also get an on/off Ranco from reptile basics which won't keep quite as tight control on your temps. One other option is to get a rheostat (I got a lamp dimmer for $10 from home depot that you can just plug your heater into and it's got a little slider to control the heat). The dimmer only works well if you have pretty consistent temperatures, but it might be a viable short term option if you want to save up some $$ for the herpstat
So you've got
$5ish for the bowls
$0 for newspaper substrate
$20ish for heating
$12 for Acurite thermometer/hygrometer
$10-100 for heat control
$15ish for a tub (not sure about that one)
$25-80 for a snake (good reason to not buy from PETCO- they're WAY expensive for what their snakes are worth)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

The size tub is dictated, to a degree, by the size of the snake. So, if you're getting an '08 ball, then I would start with a 16qt tub. The holes are dictated by the amount of humidity already in your environment. It's easy to tape some up if you've put too many in and easy to add more if not enough.

As for breeders, since you're on the east coast there are a bajillion!!! I only have experience with the east coast breeders NERD and 8Ball; both are top notch!!
There are tons more, just look through the ads on this forum and use the forum's search tool for breeders. Most breeders are amazing stand-up people!

Good luck searching for that perfect snake!!!!!

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Sounds good, I'll look into that. Thanks for your help. This definitely gets me moving. If anyone else would like to tackle the "setting up the tub" process, I'd be grateful for that, too. I only have a general idea.

I agree with most of what Starmom has said. I would like to add a couple of things though. If you have the tub in a room that maintains a constant temperature, you could get by with using a dimmer for the UTH at first. As long as you can maintain a stable external environment, the dimmer will keep the internal temps stable until you can save up to get a thermostat.

As far as where to get them, I know everyone in general will say to avoid Petco, but that's where I got mine. I would agree that MOST Petco and PetSmarts are crap, but there are some good ones out there. I would say to go look at their snakes and talk to the herp specialist (if they have one) at the store and get a feel for their knowledge. And ask questions, like when did they last feed, if they have fed. What are they feeding, f/t or live. The herp specialist at my local Petco is a member on this board and a friend of mine and I know that he does the best he can (within Petco's restrictions most of the time) for the animals while they are there....

What part of Tennessee are you from? There are at least 2 breeders in/around Atlanta who are members of this board. Albey Scholl and Justin Kobylka both contacted me and are both definitely good guys.
http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/
http://www.albeysreptiles.com/

Ok, someone already beat me to the dimmer option... Guess I just type too slow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

If you say where you're from, you might well find a breeder right here on BPnet. That's what I did when I got my girl.
As for the hides/water bowl, what wasn't mentioned is that these can even be just plastic bowls, turned over and with a small hole cut out for the hides. You can also use a planter saucer with a part of the lip cut out, which can sometimes look a little nicer.
For under tank heating, you can also use a piece of heat tape from Reptile Basics instead of buying a UTH, so you can save a little money that way. If you buy a wire/clip/insulator set with it, and ask for it prewired, Rich will even do it for free, so all you have to do is plug it in. http://www.reptilebasics.com/Heating-p-1-c-248.html
If you know anything about wiring and soldering though, it seems to be pretty easy to do it yourself. You can do a google search for flexwatt wiring and find a DIY guide. You just need an extension cord, soldering iron setup, and some insulating tape.

The only big money item left is really the thermostat. You can get a herpstat for about 109 http://spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat.html it's a proportional thermostat which is really nice and will probably be worth it in the long run. You can also get an on/off Ranco from reptile basics which won't keep quite as tight control on your temps. One other option is to get a rheostat (I got a lamp dimmer for $10 from home depot that you can just plug your heater into and it's got a little slider to control the heat). The dimmer only works well if you have pretty consistent temperatures, but it might be a viable short term option if you want to save up some $$ for the herpstat
So you've got
$5ish for the bowls
$0 for newspaper substrate
$20ish for heating
$10-100 for heat control
$15ish for a tub (not sure about that one)
$25-80 for a snake (good reason to not buy from PETCO- they're WAY expensive for what their snakes are worth)

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The hides and the water bowl seem easy enough. As far as the heating goes, I'll probably just stick to a UTH and dimmer for now. I'll be around a lot, so I'll be able to constantly keep an eye on the snake and the heat, and eventually what I plan to do is (once I've learned a lot more and have more funds) move it to a nice tank that's decked out with the appropriate conditions. It just seems like a tub is the easier way to go for a beginner. And the heat tape and all sounds a bit complicated for my level right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I agree with most of what Starmom has said. I would like to add a couple of things though. If you have the tub in a room that maintains a constant temperature, you could get by with using a dimmer for the UTH at first. As long as you can maintain a stable external environment, the dimmer will keep the internal temps stable until you can save up to get a thermostat.

As far as where to get them, I know everyone in general will say to avoid Petco, but that's where I got mine. I would agree that MOST Petco and PetSmarts are crap, but there are some good ones out there. I would say to go look at their snakes and talk to the herp specialist (if they have one) at the store and get a feel for their knowledge. And ask questions, like when did they last feed, if they have fed. What are they feeding, f/t or live. The herp specialist at my local Petco is a member on this board and a friend of mine and I know that he does the best he can (within Petco's restrictions most of the time) for the animals while they are there....

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Yeah, I'll be keeping the room it's in at a pretty steady temperature, so the heating shouldn't be an issue. Plus it'll be kept on the highest shelf on my bookshelf, about 5 feet off the ground, for all the tiny difference that makes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

What part of Tennessee are you from? There are at least 2 breeders in/around Atlanta who are members of this board. Albey Scholl and Justin Kobylka both contacted me and are both definitely good guys.
http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/
http://www.albeysreptiles.com/

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I'm directly in Middle Tennessee, so Atlanta isn't painfully far away. I'm just worried about having a snake shipped, even if it isn't very far. Something about it is just unsettling. I'll check them out right now, though, and look around. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

...As far as where to get them, I know everyone in general will say to avoid Petco, but that's where I got mine. ....

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Everyone says to avoid Petco for very good reasons. Inknsteel, your snake has mites...where do you think they came from?? I'd bet Petco since it's a new snake.... :rolleyes:

Also, just to clarify, I'm only looking for a normal BP at the moment. Nothing too fancy and expensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

Also, just to clarify, I'm only looking for a normal BP at the moment. Nothing too fancy and expensive.

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Don't dis the normals!!!! :D I have two normal females and they are beautiful! I have seen stunning normals on this forum that I could have sworn were some type of morph! Normals are gorgeous snakes and they can be quite fancy!!! :)

Many of the breeders are not going to list their normals on their pages :( Please don't get discouraged by seeing all of the morphs and thinking that they have no normals. Pick a breeder you get a good feeling from (Justin is terrific) and give them a call. Also, don't fear shipping!! That said, if you can visit a breeders facility it would be a fabulous adventure and experience!! :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Don't dis the normals!!!! :D I have two normal females and they are beautiful! I have seen stunning normals on this forum that I could have sworn were some type of morph! Normals are gorgeous snakes and they can be quite fancy!!! :)

Many of the breeders are not going to list their normals on their pages :( Please don't get discouraged by seeing all of the morphs and thinking that they have no normals. Pick a breeder you get a good feeling from (Justin is terrific) and give them a call. Also, don't fear shipping!!

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Yeah good point that I forgot to mention. I bought my little girl from Albey, and although he doesn't have normals listed on his website, he definitely has some to sell! As he said when I first called him, breeders always have normals in the clutches that they're trying to "get rid of"
Also, I know there are a bunch of members here from Nashville, so I imagine there must be some breeders (in fact, IIRC, there are 2 members from Nashville with parthenogenesis issues right now...LOL)

Quote:

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That said, if you can visit a breeders facility it would be a fabulous adventure and experience!! :banana:

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No kidding...it was awesome to go visit the snake room and see all the cool different morphs, and get to hold the ones that I thought I might want. THAT said, looking at all the sweet morphs is an easy way to get addicted, hehe...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Don't dis the normals!!!! :D I have two normal females and they are beautiful! I have seen stunning normals on this forum that I could have sworn were some type of morph! Normals are gorgeous snakes and they can be quite fancy!!! :)

Many of the breeders are not going to list their normals on their pages :( Please don't get discouraged by seeing all of the morphs and thinking that they have no normals. Pick a breeder you get a good feeling from (Justin is terrific) and give them a call. Also, don't fear shipping!! That said, if you can visit a breeders facility it would be a fabulous adventure and experience!! :banana:

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Oh, I know what ya mean. Normals are just as pretty as some of the others I've seen, so I'm perfectly cool with having one of them. I'd actually pick one of them over some of the more expensive morphs I've seen. And yeah, I was wondering about the breeder sites I've seen so far, since most of them just have morphs available. I may try emailing or calling around and seeing what's available. I'd also assume that the normals won't be as expensive as the others listed on the sites. Unless the facility is very close to my hometown, visiting won't be a possibility at the moment, as much as I'd like to :(.

Also, another question (surprise, surprise): Is there much difference between a male and female? I have a female Iguana, and of course she becomes gravid once a year, which is a pain to deal with and frightening at times. Do female balls also become gravid? Also, are there any personality or size differences between the two? And I'm assuming one of the perks of getting it through a breeder is knowing the sex before I buy it, since I would think most stores don't sex their selection, confirm/deny?

Females are larger than males when full grown.
Males come to sexual maturity sooner than females.
An '08 female will not become gravid (pregnant) unless a male is introduced and Barry White is playing in the background!!! :D
I have not seen any reliable personality differences between my males and my females.
I love your questions....it means you are planning things out and are taking responsibility. Kudos!! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

Oh, I know what ya mean. Normals are just as pretty as some of the others I've seen, so I'm perfectly cool with having one of them. I'd actually pick one of them over some of the more expensive morphs I've seen. And yeah, I was wondering about the breeder sites I've seen so far, since most of them just have morphs available. I may try emailing or calling around and seeing what's available. I'd also assume that the normals won't be as expensive as the others listed on the sites. Unless the facility is very close to my hometown, visiting won't be a possibility at the moment, as much as I'd like to :(.

Also, another question (surprise, surprise): Is there much difference between a male and female? I have a female Iguana, and of course she becomes gravid once a year, which is a pain to deal with and frightening at times. Do female balls also become gravid? Also, are there any personality or size differences between the two? And I'm assuming one of the perks of getting it through a breeder is knowing the sex before I buy it, since I would think most stores don't sex their selection, confirm/deny?

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The females generally get bigger than the males, and *generally* don't become gravid unless they're bred to a male (like I said though, there seems to be something in the air in TN) I also paid more for my girlie, but I figured it was worth it because I already had the bug and thought that in a few years I might be thinking about breeding her. I don't know of any personality differences really, but it wouldn't surprise me. I guess males are more likely to go off feed. The breeders definitely will know the sex, and although pet stores will often tell you what gender the snake is, it also seems that they won't care to be honest about it. You technically could learn to "pop" the snake to determine the gender, although you can hurt the snake, so I (as a noob) would be afraid to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Females are larger than males when full grown.
Males come to sexual maturity sooner than females.
An '08 female will not become gravid (pregnant) unless a male is introduced and Barry White is playing in the background!!! :D
I have not seen any reliable personality differences between my males and my females.
I love your questions....it means you are planning things out and are taking responsibility. Kudos!! :gj:

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Ok, cool deal. I really don't care if I have a male or female, I'm comfortable with both, the only thing that would change my mind about that was the chance of the female becoming gravid yearly. So that puts me at ease a bit. And yeah, after all the looking around I realized that this is definitely something I have to know a little bit about before jumping in to it, so I'm trying to get everything as straight and understood as I can, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

The females generally get bigger than the males, and *generally* don't become gravid unless they're bred to a male (like I said though, there seems to be something in the air in TN) I also paid more for my girlie, but I figured it was worth it because I already had the bug and thought that in a few years I might be thinking about breeding her. I don't know of any personality differences really, but it wouldn't surprise me. I guess males are more likely to go off feed. The breeders definitely will know the sex, and although pet stores will often tell you what gender the snake is, it also seems that they won't care to be honest about it. You technically could learn to "pop" the snake to determine the gender, although you can hurt the snake, so I (as a noob) would be afraid to do it.

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Yeah, the breeding idea has passed through my mind as a possibility far into the future. That's jumping the gun for now, though, lol. Besides, if I was to ever make that move I'd definitely do it at a later time and try to get parents that have a possibility of popping out some profitable babies. I won't be learning to pop them myself. Way too risky and I might not even be able to make anything of it once I do it. Luckily the name I already have picked out is pretty neutral :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

Yeah, the breeding idea has passed through my mind as a possibility far into the future. That's jumping the gun for now, though, lol. Besides, if I was to ever make that move I'd definitely do it at a later time and try to get parents that have a possibility of popping out some profitable babies. I won't be learning to pop them myself. Way too risky and I might not even be able to make anything of it once I do it. Luckily the name I already have picked out is pretty neutral :).

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I have to agree with you on the popping thing- it makes me nervous!
Yeah I also won't be breeding til way down the line (at least until my husband gets his PhD and then a job and we make the move...I don't want to be transporting dozens of snakes to a different state!)
But remember, you need 2 snakes to breed, and there are plenty of AWESOME dominant/co-dominant traits out there! When I do get a male, I'm planning on getting a pewter, which is double co-dominant, so I could potentially hatch out all kinds of morphs! (namely pastels, cinnamons, and more pewters)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

I have to agree with you on the popping thing- it makes me nervous!
Yeah I also won't be breeding til way down the line (at least until my husband gets his PhD and then a job and we make the move...I don't want to be transporting dozens of snakes to a different state!)
But remember, you need 2 snakes to breed, and there are plenty of AWESOME dominant/co-dominant traits out there! When I do get a male, I'm planning on getting a pewter, which is double co-dominant, so I could potentially hatch out all kinds of morphs! (namely pastels, cinnamons, and more pewters)

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It's an exciting prospect. I'm still pretty new to how it works, and I've only looked into it a little bit, but the possibilities seem pretty endless. I was looking in the pictures section and saw a silver ball, the only one out of a batch of hatchlings, and my jaw dropped. Not only was it beautiful (I doubt I'd sell it if I ended up with one like that), but just amazing the way the breeding and snakes in general work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

It's an exciting prospect. I'm still pretty new to how it works, and I've only looked into it a little bit, but the possibilities seem pretty endless. I was looking in the pictures section and saw a silver ball, the only one out of a batch of hatchlings, and my jaw dropped. Not only was it beautiful (I doubt I'd sell it if I ended up with one like that), but just amazing the way the breeding and snakes in general work.

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I assume that was the "silver bullet clutch" thread?
That's Albey, the guy I bought Uli from :) I got to see the bullet when I was there picking her up, and it was SO cool! A pewter has a single Cinny gene and a single Pastel gene, while a bullet has 2 Cinny genes (from both parents) and a Pastel gene. (I don't know much about snakes, but I'm a bioengineering graduate student, so I know plenty about genetics). So you can get silver bullets from 2 pewter parents, or a pewter and a cinnamon. That's why I'm going and talking to Albey when I need my Pewter haha. He's got some *great* looking snakes!

Clearly I'm just trying to convince everyone else that pewter is THE morph to have. Maybe people will start breeding some more and they'll be cheaper when I get mine ;)

Jumping in a little late here - but if you think there's even the remotest possibility that you may wish to breed in the future, I'd recommend picking up a nice normal female. That way, you already have a female who will be closer to being up to size.

Albey and Justin are both great guys! Don't be afraid of shipping - I've had the bulk of my collection shipped to me with no problems - when you deal with professionals, you'll be fine!

This is how I set up babies. That's a 15 quart tub from Dollar General, I think $3. Note that the human heat pad was temporary until my flexwatt and thermostat arrived.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyRack.jpg

The hide in the right of the picture is made from a plastic flower pot saucer with the entrance soldered out. Shortly after this picture was taken, the green hide was replaced with an identical flower pot saucer hide. The saucer cost $.47 each.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

There really is a baby in there:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

A year later - here's the same baby:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...PretJune19.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Everyone says to avoid Petco for very good reasons. Inknsteel, your snake has mites...where do you think they came from?? I'd bet Petco since it's a new snake.... :rolleyes:

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Actually, I've had my snake for over 6 months. The mites did NOT come from Petco.

A friend of mine just purchased a RTB from another small, local pet shop. I let him keep the snake in my house until his parents gave the OK to move him. When he purchased the snake, there was no apparent sign of mites, probably just had eggs... After a few days of being at my house, I noticed a mite in the bottom of his water bowl, so we took him out and treated the enclosure. I'm 99.9% positive that the mites my snake got were from me not sanitizing my hands between handling the different snakes... MY bad, not Petco's... :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Actually, I've had my snake for over 6 months. The mites did NOT come from Petco.

A friend of mine just purchased a RTB from another small, local pet shop. I let him keep the snake in my house until his parents gave the OK to move him. When he purchased the snake, there was no apparent sign of mites, probably just had eggs... After a few days of being at my house, I noticed a mite in the bottom of his water bowl, so we took him out and treated the enclosure. I'm 99.9% positive that the mites my snake got were from me not sanitizing my hands between handling the different snakes... MY bad, not Petco's... :gj:

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Their snakes are still expensive, $80 compared to $20 from some breeders. I got my girl for less than $80, and petco's snakes aren't even (reliably) sexed, although I'm sure it's usually safe to assume they're male.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

Their snakes are still expensive, $80 compared to $20 from some breeders. I got my girl for less than $80, and petco's snakes aren't even (reliably) sexed, although I'm sure it's usually safe to assume they're male.

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We (InkNSteel and I) got Bella at a discount ($50) and the person we bought her from is a herp specialist and a friend, just so ya know :D

And again, that's why I said to talk to your local Petco herp specialist. I agree that most Petco employees knowledge of snakes and herp care in general amounts to crap, but there are the exceptions. Again, if you find your local store has a knowledgeable specialist, they should be able to pop or probe the snake for you. When I went up there and looked at them, before I bought mine, I was able to handle the snakes and pick which one I wanted. He then took her from me and popped her right then and there...

And yes, as she said, we got her for $50, which is about the same as buying a $20 snake from a breeder and paying $30 shipping... I just got to go pick my snake in person rather than picking from pictures online...

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying from a breeder. I'm just pointing out that there are exceptions to all these generalizations about Petco being so horrible... It's not always the case...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

The hides and the water bowl seem easy enough. As far as the heating goes, I'll probably just stick to a UTH and dimmer for now. I'll be around a lot, so I'll be able to constantly keep an eye on the snake and the heat, and eventually what I plan to do is (once I've learned a lot more and have more funds) move it to a nice tank that's decked out with the appropriate conditions. It just seems like a tub is the easier way to go for a beginner. And the heat tape and all sounds a bit complicated for my level right now.

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Believe me, heat tape (or flexwatt) isn't all that complicated.
As another poster already said, you can have it all wired up and sent to you. If you're going to be moving up to bigger tubs,
I'd reccomend it instead of an UTH. Trying to move a UTH from one tub to another is horribly tricky, because if you just pull it off,
it might not work properly after that, or you might have some
serious hot spots due to broken wires inside it.
With flexwatt, you just gently peel off the tape around it, and you're good to go for as many tubs as you need to upgrade to.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Actually, I've had my snake for over 6 months. The mites did NOT come from Petco...I'm 99.9% positive that the mites my snake got were from me not sanitizing my hands between handling the different snakes... MY bad, not Petco's... :gj:

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I apologize for jumping to the Petco theory....my bad! :( I jumped because Petco is notorious for selling diseased and infected reptiles and I stand by my recommendation to purchase from a breeder and never from Petco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnakieMom

Believe me, heat tape (or flexwatt) isn't all that complicated.
As another poster already said, you can have it all wired up and sent to you. If you're going to be moving up to bigger tubs,
I'd reccomend it instead of an UTH. Trying to move a UTH from one tub to another is horribly tricky, because if you just pull it off,
it might not work properly after that, or you might have some
serious hot spots due to broken wires inside it.
With flexwatt, you just gently peel off the tape around it, and you're good to go for as many tubs as you need to upgrade to.

Just my 2 cents. :)

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yeah, if you get it wired, it's pretty much identical to a UTH, except it doesn't have adhesive on it (which is probably a good thing!) so you can just tape it on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

I assume that was the "silver bullet clutch" thread?
That's Albey, the guy I bought Uli from :) I got to see the bullet when I was there picking her up, and it was SO cool! A pewter has a single Cinny gene and a single Pastel gene, while a bullet has 2 Cinny genes (from both parents) and a Pastel gene. (I don't know much about snakes, but I'm a bioengineering graduate student, so I know plenty about genetics). So you can get silver bullets from 2 pewter parents, or a pewter and a cinnamon. That's why I'm going and talking to Albey when I need my Pewter haha. He's got some *great* looking snakes!

Clearly I'm just trying to convince everyone else that pewter is THE morph to have. Maybe people will start breeding some more and they'll be cheaper when I get mine ;)

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Wow, I'd almost be tempted to save a little more and go ahead and get a female Pewter now. Almost. Unfortunately I'm getting pretty eager so putting it off longer than I have to won't work, lol. I also would love to eventually be able to get some Ivory babies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Jumping in a little late here - but if you think there's even the remotest possibility that you may wish to breed in the future, I'd recommend picking up a nice normal female. That way, you already have a female who will be closer to being up to size.

Albey and Justin are both great guys! Don't be afraid of shipping - I've had the bulk of my collection shipped to me with no problems - when you deal with professionals, you'll be fine!

This is how I set up babies. That's a 15 quart tub from Dollar General, I think $3. Note that the human heat pad was temporary until my flexwatt and thermostat arrived.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyRack.jpg

The hide in the right of the picture is made from a plastic flower pot saucer with the entrance soldered out. Shortly after this picture was taken, the green hide was replaced with an identical flower pot saucer hide. The saucer cost $.47 each.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

There really is a baby in there:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

A year later - here's the same baby:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...PretJune19.jpg

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Beautiful snake ya got there. And thanks for the input, I'm taking all I can get at the moment, and the pictures really help. Do certain substrates help keep up the humidity? And also, I've heard people say that you shouldn't have your heating source on the bottom directly touching the surface of whatever the tub is sitting on, is that really something to worry about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying from a breeder. I'm just pointing out that there are exceptions to all these generalizations about Petco being so horrible... It's not always the case...

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I get ya. Really just depends on the place and the staff. I'm looking into the breeder idea, though, but I'd be comfortable purchasing from the local place I talked about. They aren't a big chain, I actually think they're privately owned, and definitely know what they're doing and talking about, and the shop itself is in tip-top shape. So we'll see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnakieMom

Believe me, heat tape (or flexwatt) isn't all that complicated.
As another poster already said, you can have it all wired up and sent to you. If you're going to be moving up to bigger tubs,
I'd reccomend it instead of an UTH. Trying to move a UTH from one tub to another is horribly tricky, because if you just pull it off,
it might not work properly after that, or you might have some
serious hot spots due to broken wires inside it.
With flexwatt, you just gently peel off the tape around it, and you're good to go for as many tubs as you need to upgrade to.

Just my 2 cents. :)

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Yeah, I realized that I can get it all pre-wired and such, and that turned me on to the idea a bit more. Most likely, though, what I'll do is just keep this tub in its baby-shape and when I decide to move my first snake into something bigger, or the tank, I'll already have a tub ready to go if I decide to get another one (and if the addiction that seems to run rampant throughout these forums is any indication of what will happen to me, I can count on it).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

I apologize for jumping to the Petco theory....my bad! :( I jumped because Petco is notorious for selling diseased and infected reptiles and I stand by my recommendation to purchase from a breeder and never from Petco.

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I agree, Every time i have gone to petco, I have had to point out something wrong with their reptiles. I would buy from breeders only, you will get a better quality for sure if you go breeder.

I think the big differnce between getting a snake at a pet store or a breeder is pet stores usually(especially this time of year) have CH or captive hatched snakes that basically were hatched in Africa and shipped here by the thousands and sold to petstores dirt cheap. Most of these animals are not established and have never eaten yet(they can go weeks/months without eating). In transit they usually pickup mites, ticks and stress related problems(RI, wont feed). My first BP came from a reptile specialty pet store. They swore it was captive bred and it turned out having ticks and mites! CB sure it was. Yes they lie to tell you what you want to hear to make a sale.

Most breeders wont let an animal go until it is established and has had at least four sucessful feedings. If you think shipping overnight is scary(it's not) think of what shipping 1000's of snakes from Africa in a crate. You can also get a het from a breeder which looks normal but carries the genes for a recessive trait (like albino or ghost) for about the same price as a normal. The breeder will also give you accurate info of when/what it is eating and solid husbandry advice.

Can you get a good snake from a pet store? yeah maybe but why take a gamble when a good breeder will give you an established animal for the same if not less. If I were you the only thing that would concern me about shipping is the added cost.

Hope this helps

Since the local pet shop says they have CB balls, maybe you should try to find out what breeder(s) they're buying from. It might even be someone that works there or something.
And the $50 is a pretty normal price. Like was already said, if you're getting an animal sent to you, you'll be putting lots of money into the shipping anyway, so you might as well get one locally if you can find a good one. And it seems like you can often trust a pet store that specializes in exotic animals over one that doesn't really know anything about them. Probably they'll even have someone working there that knows how to sex the snakes. Of course you probably should go to the vet anyway and get it double checked while your there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I think the big differnce between getting a snake at a pet store or a breeder is pet stores usually(especially this time of year) have CH or captive hatched snakes that basically were hatched in Africa and shipped here by the thousands and sold to petstores dirt cheap. Most of these animals are not established and have never eaten yet(they can go weeks/months without eating). In transit they usually pickup mites, ticks and stress related problems(RI, wont feed). My first BP came from a reptile specialty pet store. They swore it was captive bred and it turned out having ticks and mites! CB sure it was. Yes they lie to tell you what you want to hear to make a sale.

Most breeders wont let an animal go until it is established and has had at least four sucessful feedings. If you think shipping overnight is scary(it's not) think of what shipping 1000's of snakes from Africa in a crate. You can also get a het from a breeder which looks normal but carries the genes for a recessive trait (like albino or ghost) for about the same price as a normal. The breeder will also give you accurate info of when/what it is eating and solid husbandry advice.

Can you get a good snake from a pet store? yeah maybe but why take a gamble when a good breeder will give you an established animal for the same if not less. If I were you the only thing that would concern me about shipping is the added cost.

Hope this helps

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

Since the local pet shop says they have CB balls, maybe you should try to find out what breeder(s) they're buying from. It might even be someone that works there or something.
And the $50 is a pretty normal price. Like was already said, if you're getting an animal sent to you, you'll be putting lots of money into the shipping anyway, so you might as well get one locally if you can find a good one. And it seems like you can often trust a pet store that specializes in exotic animals over one that doesn't really know anything about them. Probably they'll even have someone working there that knows how to sex the snakes. Of course you probably should go to the vet anyway and get it double checked while your there.

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Very good points, and buying from a normal pet store I was never really thinking of doing in the first place. My first choice would of course be a breeder, but I was looking more into the local place and they actually seem to be very professional and knowledgeable when it comes to their area of business. Actually, here's the reptile section on the site:

http://www.aquaticcritter.com/Reptile/reptile.htm

If you look around a bit they explain the difference between captive bred, captive hatched, etc., and the importance of selling/raising captive bred babies, and their ability to probe them if it's requested. So, they look pretty legit. Let me know what you all think, if you check it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soy.lor.n

Since the local pet shop says they have CB balls, maybe you should try to find out what breeder(s) they're buying from. It might even be someone that works there or something.
And the $50 is a pretty normal price. Like was already said, if you're getting an animal sent to you, you'll be putting lots of money into the shipping anyway, so you might as well get one locally if you can find a good one. And it seems like you can often trust a pet store that specializes in exotic animals over one that doesn't really know anything about them. Probably they'll even have someone working there that knows how to sex the snakes. Of course you probably should go to the vet anyway and get it double checked while your there.

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Sadly, that's not always true. The local "exotics" pet store by me doesn't know a darn thing, even though the owner has reportedly kept reptiles his entire life. He believes that probing snakes will sterilize them, and he also believes that female ball pythons aren't available in the pet trade, because breeders won't let them go.

He doesn't know why the ball pythons that he has all in one enclosure won't eat, or have poor sheds, and he's in no rush to clean their enclosures. And they don't need small hides, they have that huge 1/2 log hide that they all "cuddle" in together.

Quote:

---

Very good points, and buying from a normal pet store I was never really thinking of doing in the first place. My first choice would of course be a breeder, but I was looking more into the local place and they actually seem to be very professional and knowledgeable when it comes to their area of business. Actually, here's the reptile section on the site:

http://www.aquaticcritter.com/Reptile/reptile.htm

If you look around a bit they explain the difference between captive bred, captive hatched, etc., and the importance of selling/raising captive bred babies, and their ability to probe them if it's requested. So, they look pretty legit. Let me know what you all think, if you check it out.

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They look good on "paper"! Have you been in there? Are the animals well kept? Really trust your "gut" when you go in there.

There is a good review of them in the last post here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...quatic+Critter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

Beautiful snake ya got there. And thanks for the input, I'm taking all I can get at the moment, and the pictures really help. Do certain substrates help keep up the humidity? And also, I've heard people say that you shouldn't have your heating source on the bottom directly touching the surface of whatever the tub is sitting on, is that really something to worry about?

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Some substrates do help, but what helps more than anything is the fact you're going to be housing in a tub. I was using aspen in that photo - now I use unprinted newspaper. With 24 snakes, I got tired of always pulling the vacuum cleaner out when I did anything with the snakes (all the aspen on the floor). Also, with paper - when it's clean - it's CLEAN!


You should have some space between the heat element and either the tub or the surface it's on for air flow. For example - I have my flexwatt taped down to the surface but the tub lifted with little feet to allow airflow. And since you'll be controlling your UTH with a thermostat - you won't have to worry about flashpoints (unless your thermostat fails, which is why it's good to back it up with another thermostat or rheostat).

wait did you use a soderin g iron to cut out the flower dish entrance how does that work???? feel free to PM me -josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

They look good on "paper"! Have you been in there? Are the animals well kept? Really trust your "gut" when you go in there.

There is a good review of them in the last post here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...quatic+Critter

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Yeah, I've been in there a few times, and it's a very lovely establishment. It's very clean, they have tons of different types of reptiles, and all seem to be very well taken care of. That's why I was thinking of going with them in the first place, they're well renown and seem trustworthy.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I think I have all I need, all due to you guys and your experience. I'll be getting the stuff I need for the setup tomorrow and Friday, and then next week I should be getting the snake. I'll update this thread with pictures and such when all is done. So stay tuned. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I think I have all I need, all due to you guys and your experience. I'll be getting the stuff I need for the setup tomorrow and Friday, and then next week I should be getting the snake. I'll update this thread with pictures and such when all is done. So stay tuned. :)

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:clap: I can't wait to see your pictures of your new addition!! :clap:

One last question: I have the tub, and the UTH (and everything else), but it says that the UTH shouldn't be on plastic. So, is there something I need to put between the UTH and surface of the tub?

No - as long as you have it on a UTH, it can't get warm enough to damage or melt the plastic - if it could, it would be too hot for your snake. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

No - as long as you have it on a UTH, it can't get warm enough to damage or melt the plastic - if it could, it would be too hot for your snake. :)

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Good point. Well, I'll get it all set up here in a minute and start regulating humidity and temperature, and if it's all good and steady by tomorrow afternoon I'll be heading down to pick up the little guy (or girl). :)

Having some trouble getting the temperature/humidity stable. My setup right now is:

A 16qt. Sterilite Tub with 10 holes drilled at the top (three on each side and two on each end), and I've kept the lid on.
A Fluker digital thermometer/hygrometer. I looked at two different Wal-Marts and had no luck finding the Acu-rite.
A small water dish, full.
Two hides made from cool-whip bowls.
And finally, a small Zoo-Meds UTH.
Also, some newspaper for substrate.

I have the thermometer/hygrometer positioned slightly more on the warm side of the tub, and it's been going in the same condition for about four hours, and the highest the temperature has gotten is 80 degrees F. My humidity is a bit higher than it should be, ranging from about 69%+. And right now, and for the past while, the temperature has dropped to 76 degrees F, and isn't moving. I would take pictures, but I seem to have lost the charger for my camera, been a while since I've used it. Any help would be appreciated.

How thick is your substrate? For the humidity, add more ventilation holes and see if that helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

How thick is your substrate? For the humidity, add more ventilation holes and see if that helps.

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I have about four pages of newspaper in total for the substrate. And I was thinking about adding more ventilation holes, but wouldn't that put my temperature in worse shape than it's in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CircleOfSnakes

I have about four pages of newspaper in total for the substrate. And I was thinking about adding more ventilation holes, but wouldn't that put my temperature in worse shape than it's in?

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I usually use 2 sheets of newspaper, you might try that. Also, is the UTH on a thermostat? If so, what have you set the thermostat temps to?

I haven't found that adding more ventilation holes reduces the heat. If you'll go back earlier in the thread and look closely at the pictures I posted, you'll see two rows of holes along the upper half of the tub.

However, you could try a smaller water bowl, or move it more to the cool side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I usually use 2 sheets of newspaper, you might try that. Also, is the UTH on a thermostat? If so, what have you set the thermostat temps to?

I haven't found that adding more ventilation holes reduces the heat. If you'll go back earlier in the thread and look closely at the pictures I posted, you'll see two rows of holes along the upper half of the tub.

However, you could try a smaller water bowl, or move it more to the cool side.

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I took it down to two sheets of paper. The UTH isn't on a thermostat, I forgot to grab a dimmer yesterday, was meaning to get one today. Also, I went back up the the place, and asked them about it (and looked at prices on the snakes), and the guy I talked to said that the ambient air being 76-80 degrees should be alright, being as it'll be significantly warmer under the hide over the UTH (he also said that the humidity being between 60 and 70 percent was alright, but I'm doing what I can to take it down). I added some more holes and moved the water bowl to the cooler side, and I'm keeping the room warm. Yesterday I had the temperature in the tub at 80, and it dropped slightly at night, so I've covered up the vent in my room to keep out the air conditioner, so hopefully I can keep it at 80. I was thinking though, can they be a little cooler at night? Being as they're nocturnal, and naturally in the wild it gets a bit chillier at night?

I got the humidity and temperature pretty leveled out, and brought the BP home. He's a boy, I forgot to ask how old, but he's probably about 12-14 inches. He's not shy at all, which made me happy. That also means he isn't stressed, right? He's slithered all around his tub since he's been home, and the few times I've had to take him out to do something to the tub (minor adjustments, and he dumped his water bowl so I had to replace the newspaper), instead of balling up and hiding he's just slithered all around my hand and tried climbing up my arm. I'll be taking pictures as soon as I figure out my camera situation. I've lost the charger to my main camera, and our other one doesn't seem to be working. I could use some visual advice about my setup, but I think I've got it pretty good.

Also, in the past hour or two he's settled down, and doesn't seem to like his hides. He actually has only been inside one of them for a short period of time, on his warm side. But he's actually been curling up in the corner, behind his warm side hide, and likes it there. Does that mean anything? I've been led to believe that they're almost un-pryable from their hides.

Once they discover that the hides are good and safe they're un-pryable. :) Most new snakes don't seem to know what the hides are for, or aren't sure about the safety, so they avoid them. Every new snake I've brought home has spent the first week or two curled up in the corner behind the hides. Heck, my new adult Het Albino female is curled up in the center of the tub with her chin resting on her branch(in the store, she was kept in a medium sized acrylic display box due to lack of room) since she's so used to open spaces. Her tub is covered, tho, to make her feel more secure.

As for a thermostat, if you're short on money I would suggest you order a ZooMed ReptiTemp 500R rather than spending your money on a maddening dimmer. Trust me, I fiddled with dimmers and rheostats for months at first before discovering that the ZooMed stats are just fine for short term use. They typically run about $20-30 and do a great job keeping temps once you get everything dialed in properly. Of course, you'll want to save up for the good stats (Johnson or Herpstat) ASAP, but the ReptiTemp will give you peace of mind about temps until you can get a better t-stat. The best site I know of for those stats is ReptileSupply.com.