What makes a bumble bee?

considering the fact that a pastel, in reality of things is a het, rather than a morph from my understanding, would I need a super, or would a regular pastel work?

Regular pastel makes a bumble bee... super pastel makes a killer bee

Either would work just fine a Super pastel would just increase your odds at hitting a Bee. A killer bee is made by breeding a bee to a pastel or super pastel so a killer be is a super pastel spider. ;)

so if I bred my pastel female to a spider male I would get a possible bee?

Yep each egg would have a 25% shot at being a Bee

So am I getting this wrong... super pastel x spider does not = killer bee?

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

So am I getting this wrong... super pastel x spider does not = killer bee?

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Yea sorry. super pastel x spider doesn't equal Killer bee.
it does however give you a ratio of

50% bee
25% spider
25% pastel

Yeaaaa so i mis read your last post... super x spider DOESNT = killer bee

LOL I though the way I worded it might be a little confusing. :D

Sorry.

So to me killer bees are priced pretty low for being a tripple combo... there are some double combos like a kingpin that are priced the same as the killer bee which doesnt make much sense to me at all... Crazy market.

Killer Bee has been around longer...

Pins are newer.

It makes sense.

But if a kingpin can be produced in 1 yr and a killer bee takes atleast 2 yrs (if your lucky to get a male to breed the same yr he was born) if not it takes 3 yrs... Its like saying a recessive combo like a pastel clown is worth less than a kingpin just bc the pastel clown was produced first when in all reality the pastel clown takes longer to produce which makes less available to buy... Doesnt make any sense at all.

Now you are throwing recessives in the mix... TOTALLY different now.

Be it as it may, there is a reason for the market to be the way it is. Demand, production, etc...

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

But if a kingpin can be produced in 1 yr and a killer bee takes atleast 2 yrs (if your lucky to get a male to breed the same yr he was born) if not it takes 3 yrs... Its like saying a recessive combo like a pastel clown is worth less than a kingpin just bc the pastel clown was produced first when in all reality the pastel clown takes longer to produce which makes less available to buy... Doesnt make any sense at all.

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Pastels and spiders are a lot more common and less expensive than Lessers and Pinstripes. That should and does reduce the value of the combos based on those morphs. I'd expect the kingpin price to drop faster than recessives and supers once the component morphs become more common.

Recessive or not its still the same process and same time difference... It takes a minimum of 2 yrs to make a pastel clown if your lucky just like it takes 2 yrs to make a killer bee if your lucky... I guess to me it makes more sense that single base morphs are the least expensive... 2 combo morphs are next expensive and so 3combo morphs are even more expensive...etc... I understand supply/demand comes into play and kingpins arent all over the market it just seems odd to me that killer bees arent more expensive since they take longer to produce.

They don't take longer if you have the right ingredients :)

OK OK so ya got me there :)

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

So to me killer bees are priced pretty low for being a tripple combo

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Bees and Killer Bees are only a double combos, it's just that in the killer form, one of the gene sets is matched.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

there are some double combos like a kingpin that are priced the same as the killer bee which doesnt make much sense to me at all.

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It's all about the supplies of Platinums and Pinstripes right now, which are currently lower than Pastels and Spider.

Sorry if I missed it but if you breed a bumble bee to a pastel what are the %'s for the different morph types

Since a super pastel isnt a base morph how is a killer bee not considered a tripple combo?

Just some clarification based on previous posts (maybe it was covered....

pastel x spider =
25% bee
25% spider
25% pastel
25% normal

super pastel x spider =
50% bee
50% pastel

pastel x bee =
12.5% killer bee
12.5% super pastel
12.5% normal
12.5% spider
25% bee
25% pastel

Hope that helps!

wow I may have to get a male spider now!

maybe this site can help..

http://www.snake-zone.com/genetics/wizard/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Since a super pastel isnt a base morph how is a killer bee not considered a tripple combo?

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A super pastel is a homozygous form of a base morph, as it only takes a single morph (pastel) to produce it. Whether the gene is heterozygous or homozygous isn't pertinent to whether it is a base or combo morph.

I see what your saying... I guess its just hard for me to accept it as a base morph when its produced by breeding a pastel x pastel... I understand theres only 1 morph involved but it takes 2 of them to make the super(in a way a "different morph") so I consider that a combo. If you breed a spider to a spider you get spiders not a super spider or something different so I wouldnt consider it a combo... I guess its just like a lucy... Lesser x lesser gives you something new so I consider that a combo but in all reality its just the super form... Frickin snake genetics/naming is a whole class of its own!!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I guess its just hard for me to accept it as a base morph when its produced by breeding a pastel x pastel. ... If you breed a spider to a spider you get spiders not a super spider or something different

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Yes, but this is where the genetic descriptions of the traits (ie. recessive, co-dominant, and dominant) come into play. The nature of the gene in question describes how it expresses itself in heterozygous and homozygous arrangement, hence why there are super pastels, but no known super spiders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Frickin snake genetics/naming is a whole class of its own!!

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Genetics are the same wherever you go, so everything you learned in 5th grade (and subsequently forgot) applies.

I agree wholeheartedly on the naming conventions though, as they can be extremely confusing and contradictory. This is why I think having a good understanding of how the genetics work, and the nature of each "morph" gene, are so important.

better hope I dont make my own morph bc im gonna name it the googenheimer!!! paaaaaaaaaaah

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Yea sorry. super pastel x spider doesn't equal Killer bee.
it does however give you a ratio of

50% bee
25% spider
25% pastel

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you mean 50% spider and 50% pastel:)

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

you mean 50% spider and 50% pastel:)

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Not with a super pastel...there are no chances of plain spiders when one parent is serving up two pastel alleles.

A super pastel x spider would produce 50% bee (PS) and 50% pastels (Ps).

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

you mean 50% spider and 50% pastel:)

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You forgot about the bees?

Josh the market is based on availibilty or supply and demand. The reality it doesn't matter as much as to how hard they are to make but how many of them are there in existence. A lavender albino is as easy to make as a regular albino but there are alot fewer lavs availible therefore they are worth much more.

People have been working with the pastel morph for much longer so there are way more in existence therefore more supers and pastel combos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Yea sorry. super pastel x spider doesn't equal Killer bee.
it does however give you a ratio of

50% bee
25% spider
25% pastel

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Just to clarify:

http://www.cubeskin.com/bpnet/spaspun.jpg

That's 50% pastel and 50% bee (can't get spiders from a super pastel parent).

Opps, I meant Bees, not spiders!:oops: