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dif between corns, kings and rats?????
I was just wondering whats the difference between the different colubrids? Thanks I am having a heck of a time finding any info online.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Well, colubrids are a huge group of snakes.. they include not only kings, milks and rat snakes.. also rear fanged venomous, including the deadly boomslang.
Cornsnakes are considered a rat snake species.
Kings and milks are pretty closely related.. there are more tri-colored milks than kings, but there are tri-color kings as well.
Not sure exactly what you want to know about them.. if you have a more precise question, I can try to help you out.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
ohhh.... That Albino Nelsons is SMOKIN!! Gorgeous snake there...
Here are my four corns for comparison:
2 year old Ghost male
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...pdate_3_08.jpg
1 year old Amel male
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._08_apollo.jpg
7 month old Anery female
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...le_1_29_08.jpg
9 month old(really) HypoBloodred female
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._comp_4_08.jpg
Picture from the breeder(SerpenCo) website to show her colors better:
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._hypoblood.jpg
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentra
Awww they are beautiful!!! hypo blood has rockn cool colors!!!
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Thanks. :D They're my babies...especially the Ghost. And I can't wait to see what that hypoBlood is going to look like as an adult...*drool*. She's my big hope for making some Ghost Bloods.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
I'm sure there's certain anatomical differences that separate these species; scale count, body shape, keeled/unkeeled scales, etc etc. Of course, on the genetic/DNA level, thats where you really compare.
I think corns are somewhere inbetween kings/milks and the other U.S. rats. I mean, they have smooth scales unlike their rat kin, and they seem to breed more readily with kings/milks than with other Pantherophis/Elaphe; hence all the hybrids. Of course, they have been some occasional P. obsoleta/guttata crosses, but they're few and far between compared to the "jungles" (Cal king x corn), "sinacorns" and etc.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiuchus
I think corns are somewhere inbetween kings/milks and the other U.S. rats. I mean, they have smooth scales unlike their rat kin, and they seem to breed more readily with kings/milks than with other Pantherophis/Elaphe; hence all the hybrids. Of course, they have been some occasional P. obsoleta/guttata crosses, but they're few and far between compared to the "jungles" (Cal king x corn), "sinacorns" and etc.
Do you have any idea if this is because those crosses are easier, or just because kings/milks and corns are the more popular species, while most of the rat snakes aren't as popular?
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
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Originally Posted by Shelby
That speckled face is so cute!
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
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Originally Posted by kc261
Do you have any idea if this is because those crosses are easier, or just because kings/milks and corns are the more popular species, while most of the rat snakes aren't as popular?
I dunno....popularity may be the dominant factor, but I have read/heard in a few different places that they are considered more closely related to Lampropeltis than Pantherophis.
But then again, people will cross anything if they remotely thinks it possible, popular or not. Lol...corns do appear to sleep with pretty much anything though.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Corns and Rats are very closely related, and are both part of the Elaphe species. I don't know much about Kings but I do know that they are quite different in range and in species. That's the species difference between them, if you want to know the difference in care, it's not much. Most of those species will do well with a standard colubrid setup-the only difference there is is the enclosure size. The only exception to this are arboreal ratsnakes, which require higher cages with branches for climbing.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
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Corns and Rats are very closely related, and are both part of the Elaphe species
This has pretty much been established already. The question now is, what makes a cornsnake a ratsnake? Its not just because someone a hundred years ago said so.
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don't know much about Kings but I do know that they are quite different in range and in species. That's the species difference between them
Hmm...not really, no. :colbert: Members of both groups (Pantherophis and Lampropeltis)can be found in the same environments and even the same species (split into subspecies) can be found in different environments. For example, the cornsnake and the Great Plains ratsnake are technically the same species, yet found in very different habitats and ranges.
There's more to determining these things than just range and behavior.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Very true. Another factor is body build, size, scale orientation, head shape... these things also set them apart. Most Rat snakes I've seen, for example, are prone to bug-eye and seem to have slightly smaller heads than corns and most Milks seem to have more rounded heads.
Range and habitat type are an important factor, but normally are not definitive ways to tell species apart. The main thing, genetics, is screwed up by cross breeding... so someday there may not even BE a way to tell them apart for sure. :)
Sorry if that was rambling... it's been a long and snowy day here. (wish the damn weather would settle).
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
The "Ratsnake" name has been tradicionally attributed to all snakes of the former genus Elaphe at least since the "bible" of Fitzinger was published. Nowadays, they both belong to the genus Pantherophis. So, to that extent, a corn is a ratsnake (also used to be called red ratsnakes).
Kings, on the other hand belong to the genus Lampropeltis (with the milksnakes). So they´re a totally different story. Their body shape is totally different (to start it, they don´t have a distinguished head), the scales are smoother, etc.
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Re: dif between corns, kings and rats?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiuchus
This has pretty much been established already. The question now is, what makes a cornsnake a ratsnake? Its not just because someone a hundred years ago said so.
Hmm...not really, no. :colbert: Members of both groups (Pantherophis and Lampropeltis)can be found in the same environments and even the same species (split into subspecies) can be found in different environments. For example, the cornsnake and the Great Plains ratsnake are technically the same species, yet found in very different habitats and ranges.
There's more to determining these things than just range and behavior.
Hey, range detail just isn't my thing. I meant that the Kingsnake's range was different from the Rat snake's range. And I don't think the locations really matter to anyone unless they're herpers.
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