Setup Question

Hi,
I got my BP 2 days ago and I just wanted to make sure I got everything as close as possible as optimal.

I've been following this guide (as well as others) and I think I got things correct, but I wanted to double check.

-I've got 2 hide spots that are the same, one on the cold side and one on the hot side.
-I've got a branch he can climb on to get to the fake plants that are ~ 2 inches from the heat lamp.
-The basking spot near the top light is ~93F
-I'm using a 20 gallon tank. (my BP is ~22 inches)
-I'm using a UTH
-2 CHE with 50W infrared bulbs on 24 hours.
-Cold side (probe is on the substrate) is 82F. (as seen in the pic)
-Hot side (probe is on the substrate) is 92F. (as seen in the pic)
-I'm using the ambient lighting as day/night. (I have 3 other cages setup on a timer 8am to 8pm.
-The humidity is ~50-60% (It's 55% right now).
-Ambient temp is around 80F.

Here's a pic of my viv...
http://evillair.net/tmp/MysterySetup.jpg

Am I good to go with this setup (until he gets bigger)?
And what are the ranges in temp for the cold and hot sides? ie 2-4 degrees?

Thanks in advance.

Everything looks pretty good. Ball pythons are pretty clumsy, so all those things for your BP to climb on may be counterproductive as he will be falling down all the time and possibly injuring himself. I would bring their height down a bit.

It seems like humidity is going to be difficult with an open top. You might think of covering the top to keep some humidity in, but if you're somewhere like Florida it may be good to go as is.

Temps can vary a couple of degrees no problem. 80-84 cool side and 88-low 90's hot side is the generally accepted range of temps. Well known breeders such as the Barkers let temps go to high 70's at night, but you can't go wrong keeping them at 80ish.

Do you have any thermostats on there??

JonV

My only question is with the temp probe on the substrate, the glass beneath can become too hot for the snakes and they can wind up with a belly burn. I would suggest that you place the probes on the glass under the substrate.
I think it's really terrific that you have taken the time to really research and model your environment on what has worked for countless others! Great job!!

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Everything looks pretty good. Ball pythons are pretty clumsy, so all those things for your BP to climb on may be counterproductive as he will be falling down all the time and possibly injuring himself. I would bring their height down a bit.
JonV

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I'm going to say the bp will most likely not fall off of something that small, and if it does it would most likely not injure itself.
As for the Humidity you might want to put some tin foil over the top or something. I find that a moist towel works great.

Jon has a great point regarding the height of your cage. A lot of the heat and humidity will be rising to the top where the ball python will seldom be. How tall is your tank? Male royals tend to climb more frequently than females though they are not arboreal by any stretch. Jon is correct in wondering if the climbing branch is too high.

Thanks for the quick replies!

nevohraalnavnoj,
- I lowered the plants to half the cage. I defiantly don't want my BP to hurt itself. I had it the way it was to make sure it could get close enough to the heat lamp to get enough heat if it wanted it.
- I only have those 2 digital thermostats. I don't have a way to lower the UTH right now. I should have a chance to go tomorrow and get something for that, no one at the pet store mentioned it but I've been reading lots of posts here and it seems like it's the way to go.

starmom,
-I put the probe right on the glass over the glass where the UTH is, the temp was 100F. :O
But I have ~1.5 inches of reptile bark. I was told that they don't borrow with this as substrate, should I be worried?
-The cage is 18"x18"x18".

Shouldn't the humidity be around 50%-60% though?

I have that exact terrarium and let me tell you, it turned into a nightmare!! I did have everything about right along the lines of temps and humidity but I was CONSTANTLY misting, adjusting temps, and my bp fell HARD a few times. He does not need anything to climb on to fall, he can simply creep up the sides (which he will) and will fall backward and bonk his head when he gets too far up. I enjoy the look of terrariums but eventually gave up on this exo-terra.

Don't get me wrong, this tank will work but it takes a lot of tweaking. Also, the Under Tank Heater you have plugged in without a control will get higher than 100 degrees, guaranteed. Unfortunately your best bet is to unplug it until you purchase something to control it. It is very easy for your bp to burrow to the hot glass and you do not want to risk a sever burn.

And in regards to your humidity, yes 50-60 is correct, but with the height of the tank, don't be surprised if it does drop. That is when you will need to cover the screen. If you need any tips on controlling that terrarium I would be happy to share my experience with it further.

1.5 inches is, in my opinion, a lot. But, to answer your question: Yes, I would be concerned that the python will burrow and burn. These snakes do burrow and I have no idea why they would not burrow into your substrate. I would decrease the amount of substrate and decrease the temps. :)
Also, I would strongly suggest that you get a thermostat right away to control the temps of your UTH. Popular brands include Helix, Herpstat and Ranco (?). I use both Helix and Herpstat and have found them both to be reliable and easy to use. ;)
Humidity should be between 50-60% per most members on this forum. I use to bump humidity to 72% for shedding until one of my snakes surprised me with a shed (didn't even know she had been in blue!) Her humidity had been 56% the entire time! So, I am now keeping my humidity at around 55% and bumping to 60% for sheds. I have 2 more in blue right now so we'll see how that works; I am expecting successful and perfect sheds! :rolleyes:
Anyway, there you go. There are lots of ways to keep these snakes but the true basics are proper temps (thermostat), proper humidity, and proper hides. After that, your snake will let you know what he likes specific to his own personality~ and this just takes time and observation!

Ok, I unplugged my UTH, it shouldn't be a problem it being unplugged until tomorrow morning?

missi182, can I ask what you are using now?

Thanks for all the help!

Nice setup! I also usa a glass tank, mostly for the atmosphere. I like to display my tank and snakes for my own enjoyment. I agree with getting a adjustable thermostat. I got mine from www.beanfarm.com That will help you get control over the heat issues. Also I bought Kevin Mccurly's book "complete ball pyhton" is a must for a new owner. Good luck Mitch

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Originally Posted by YvesA

Ok, I unplugged my UTH, it shouldn't be a problem it being unplugged until tomorrow morning?

missi182, can I ask what you are using now?

Thanks for all the help!

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I switched him to a 15 gallon tank, and it looks better than my exo if you ask me:) and everything is much easier to control with more ground space and less height:)

He should be O.K with the UTH unplugged until tomorrow as long as his temps don't drop below 80. But as soon as you can, get a lamp dimmer or rheostat (same thing really, except a rheostat from a pet store costs more, and the zoomed rheostats reallllly suck from my use with them) The thermostats suggested (helix, ranco or herpstat) can be bought online so if you get one it may be a few weeks before you actually can use it.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...tup_338329.jpg

Hey Missi~ your set-up looks awesome!!
Yves~ If you live close to the west coast you can get a helix in about 2 days ordering from the Helix web site. If you live close to the east coast you can get one in about 2 days ordering from Reptile Basics. If you go with the Helix you can order from their web site (spyder robotics) and get it in about 3 days. Don't know about ranco.....

Haha well everything I have shipped takes up to 2 weeks lol, but thats because I am in Canada I suppose...But that is a good point, if you can get a thermostat shipped fairly soon that would be the best thing to do, but to warm you, you are looking at about $70-$200 for a thermostat depending on what you get, but spyder robotics is where you can find the recommended thermostats.

And thanks starmom!

I totally forgot I had a thermostat :weirdface
It's a Zoo Med Remote Sensor Thermostat. I know it's not the best but at least I have something for now. I don't know how I forgot I bought one last month, I must be getting old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

I totally forgot I had a thermostat :weirdface
It's a Zoo Med Remote Sensor Thermostat. I know it's not the best but at least I have something for now. I don't know how I forgot I bought one last month, I must be getting old.

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Haha well there ya go! Just make sure you get your sensor right on the heat pad under the substrate so you know he can't get burned. I've looked at the remote sensing zoomed thermostats but never used them, but it should work for ya! If you have any questions about it once it's set-up or while your setting it up just ask:)

Use the probe temp as a reference to double check the thermostat is working.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

I totally forgot I had a thermostat :weirdface
It's a Zoo Med Remote Sensor Thermostat. I know it's not the best but at least I have something for now. I don't know how I forgot I bought one last month, I must be getting old.

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YEA!!!!!!!! :banana: Nope, not getting old~ you're just very prepared! ;)

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Originally Posted by missi182

Haha well there ya go! Just make sure you get your sensor right on the heat pad under the substrate so you know he can't get burned. I've looked at the remote sensing zoomed thermostats but never used them, but it should work for ya! If you have any questions about it once it's set-up or while your setting it up just ask:)

Use the probe temp as a reference to double check the thermostat is working.

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I put both the Zoo Med and my digital themostst under the substrate on the glass where the heating pad is and I waited until it got to 96F then turned down the dial on the zoo med slowly till it shut off.
Is 96F a ok shut off temp for the UTH?
I'll keep an eye on the temp a while in any case.

Nice setup Missi!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

YEA!!!!!!!! :banana: Nope, not getting old~ you're just very prepared! ;)

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haha yeah, I'll use that excuse, thanks! ;)

I'd set it at 93, but how long does it stay off for? Just until it drops to a selected minimum?

You're from Canada too- hey Missi- you reading this?!?! :rolleye2:
96 is a bit hot for the pythons- 92-94 is good!!

Haha oh boy Im dumb eh? I commented on shipping times being slow for Canada, well there ya go! I didn't even notice, YvesA we're both in Ontario! Isn't that handy. Well at least now I can GUARANTEE you will have to battle humidity sometime soon;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

You're from Canada too- hey Missi- you reading this?!?! :rolleye2:
96 is a bit hot for the pythons- 92-94 is good!!

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96 is the temp right on the glass, right now the temp on top of the substrate is 89F.
Perhaps I'll remove some substrate and set the Thermostat to a lower temp to make sure even if he's on the glass there's no issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

Haha oh boy Im dumb eh? I commented on shipping times being slow for Canada, well there ya go! I didn't even notice, YvesA we're both in Ontario! Isn't that handy. Well at least now I can GUARANTEE you will have to battle humidity sometime soon;)

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Don't worry, I edited my info afterwards, you didn't miss it.
I had forgotten to edit it before posting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Jon has a great point regarding the height of your cage. A lot of the heat and humidity will be rising to the top where the ball python will seldom be. How tall is your tank? Male royals tend to climb more frequently than females though they are not arboreal by any stretch. Jon is correct in wondering if the climbing branch is too high.

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Thanks! The only reason I say so is because my first cage was 12" high and I had some of those Exo-terra plants with suction cups on the walls. My male spider would climb and ultimately fall with a reasonable thump MANY times each night. I figured it couldn't be good. It was probably more because of the plants though, they slant down and away from the walls and are pretty slippery as a result. A branch may not have been so bad.

JonV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

I totally forgot I had a thermostat :weirdface
It's a Zoo Med Remote Sensor Thermostat. I know it's not the best but at least I have something for now. I don't know how I forgot I bought one last month, I must be getting old.

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Hey, that's alright! You're doing the right thing in seeking out advice here, it's a great community!

JonV

And you guys responded very quickly :)

Thanks for the help.

I just placed an order for a Herpstat Proportional Thermostat, should be here in 6-10 days.
I'm just not thrusting my Zoo Med for a long duration.

Better safe then sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

And you guys responded very quickly :)

Thanks for the help.

I just placed an order for a Herpstat Proportional Thermostat, should be here in 6-10 days.
I'm just not thrusting my Zoo Med for a long duration.

Better safe then sorry.

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Awesome!! I just got my ranco not to long ago and I feel much better:)

I finally found a Canadian store, it's actually near where I live, so all the better.
I got carried away and ordered this, should be here in a few days.
I don't want the risk of my BP falling down in a tank that's too high. Plus I like how it slides/locks and theres a place for the wires to go in.

Great deal! I was checking out that same tank at a store near me and it was $119. The 15 gallon I just bought identical to that was $41 but the lid was $49! So of course I made my own lid with locking latches and a opening hinged door for a lot less:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Humidity should be between 50-60% per most members on this forum. I use to bump humidity to 72% for shedding until one of my snakes surprised me with a shed (didn't even know she had been in blue!) Her humidity had been 56% the entire time!

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Yes! My spider, Jules was in shed, and I couldn't keep his humidity up past 55%-60, and he shed PERFECTLY, eye caps and all. I had Vincent's at 70% the whole time and had to manually remove his head skin.

It may be because I had to soak him during shed.. I dunno.

To the OP, Thermostat is not Thermometer. Those look like thermometers. My suggestion would be get a Herpstat. Dion is awesome... www.spyderrobotics.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

And you guys responded very quickly :)

Thanks for the help.

I just placed an order for a Herpstat Proportional Thermostat, should be here in 6-10 days.
I'm just not thrusting my Zoo Med for a long duration.

Better safe then sorry.

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Good choice!!!!! You will be EXTREMELY happy with it. Did you get it directly from Spyder Robotics? Any question you have, Dion will answer quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missi182

Great deal! I was checking out that same tank at a store near me and it was $119. The 15 gallon I just bought identical to that was $41 but the lid was $49! So of course I made my own lid with locking latches and a opening hinged door for a lot less:)

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They just emailed me and said it's out of stock but they will get it in 2 weeks, I have the option of getting a 30x12x18 for $20 more, but then I'll have the height problem again. The one I ordered was 30x12x12.
I might just wait the 2 weeks.
With shipping/GST etc the price comes to about to what you mentioned though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skoalbasher

Good choice!!!!! You will be EXTREMELY happy with it. Did you get it directly from Spyder Robotics? Any question you have, Dion will answer quickly.

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Thanks, I ordered it from beanfarm since I didn't see a credit card option from Spyder Robotics, only paypal. Shipping was a bit high though at $71! It better last a while haha!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YvesA

They just emailed me and said it's out of stock but they will get it in 2 weeks, I have the option of getting a 30x12x18 for $20 more, but then I'll have the height problem again. The one I ordered was 30x12x12.

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Excellent decision! I had some 18" tall acrylic tanks that I ended up cutting down to 12" anyway...I wish I had known before I bought them!

JonV