Respiratory Infections in Rats

What can cause a rat to develop a respiratory infection or respiratory illness?

How fast can it spread?

Will it spread to other pets in the house (cats, small mammals?)

Can it be transmitted to humans?

The reason I ask is because not very long ago, one of our rats had a fractured leg. He had no other symptoms and then two days after seeing the vet for his fractured leg, he dies. Tonight I go in to feed the rats and I hold one of Gazelle's babies. Then I hear one of the feeder rejects, to be breeder, females, is sitting in her cage, gasping and making a clicking sound when she tries to breath. I take her out and normally she would have tried to bite me but she was completely oblivious to the fact that I'm holding her. Her eyes are wide open and she's just gasping. Her heartbeat is really fast and her breating extremely labored. We take her out of the room and set her up in a small critter carrier we use to take animals to the vet.

We were just talking about the next plan of action and I tell my fiance I'm going in to feed the rest of the rodents and check to see if everyone else is ok. I look in Gazelle's cage and one of the babies is not moving. I'm not sure if its the one I held or not but his body is going cold. I know it wasn't like that when I had gone in before and picked up one of the babies because all were squirming.

When I checked all the rats and fed them yesterday, everyone was fine. Now suddenly I have a dead baby and one adult that is struggling to live. We cannot get to a vet tonight but we will be waking up at the crack of dawn to call the vet and schedule an emergency visit if the rat is still alive by tomorrow.

Rat rooms and cages need to have good ventilation due to the possible build up of amonia gasses. Do you cages have proper ventilation and are any of them in a position which could cause a dead zone of no air movement. Also do you have any kind of exhaust fan set up. Not sure how many rats we are talking about her but if you have a nice size colony, 30 or more rats you need to have at least an open window and you start getting up to 50 or more you need some kind of forced air ventilation. Odds are against this being the problem since so few seem to be affected, but it might be!

Sounds like a viral infection if it is spreading and killing the rats.

Mycoplasma is quite literally in every single rat. It flares up when the rats immune system is stressed. Mycoplasma is usually not a problem, but as the rat's age they will slowly succumb to the effects of the lowered immune system, leaving the door open for a myco flare up. Young rats do not show the effects as much as an older rat. The sneezing, poryphrin staining around the nose and eyes, these are all usually from an irritated respiratory system (no ventilation, build up of ammonia, dusty bedding, pine or cedar) further irritated by the myco. (lead to respiratory distress, etc)

Another idea, is if you had any other rodents in the same room as your breeding colony. Quarantine is of the upmost importance because the transmittable viruses and bacteria from foreign rats will quite literally kill your whole colony with efficient speed.

It could quite literally be any number of illnesses. I'm sure Becky will have better and more detailed ideas.

i have a homemade cage in our bedroom for our 2 pet rats. they have been sneezing for over a month now but it seems to have slowed down since i started using aspen instead of the horse bedding pellets.

behind the cage, the wall has a bunch of red spots which looks like blood on the wall but im assuming its not blood? the female has red crusty stuff around her nose.

the male tried to breed her a week ago and was trying to breed her again last night so im guessing she didnt get pregnant the first time or could he just be frisky? im guessing her illness may be preventing her from conceiving?

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Originally Posted by ch312

i have a homemade cage in our bedroom for our 2 pet rats. they have been sneezing for over a month now but it seems to have slowed down since i started using aspen instead of the horse bedding pellets.

behind the cage, the wall has a bunch of red spots which looks like blood on the wall but im assuming its not blood? the female has red crusty stuff around her nose.

the male tried to breed her a week ago and was trying to breed her again last night so im guessing she didnt get pregnant the first time or could he just be frisky? im guessing her illness may be preventing her from conceiving?

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The red stains on the wall are poryphrin from sneezing, along with some urine. (Just keep that in mind ;)) The stain around the nose is an indicator or stress, or illness, allergies. Most of my rats do not have the staining around their noses or eyes very often.

If your trying to breed, the male will breed her when she is in heat. They will go at quite often when she is in heat. I don't actually know if illness stops them from getting pregnant, but I don't think it would factor in that much.

Some rats just dont deal well with myco, and will never shake the initial symptoms without antibiotic treatment. Always best to choose animals that show little to no sneezing, or staining. Some rats are more resilient to the effects of myco, so practicing selectivity with hold backs is another ingredient to a successful colony.

I can name 4 rats that don't deal well with myco in my colony, two that get very sick from it and are never bred, and 2 get the sniffles often enough for me to be concerned to not hold back from them.

You have something going through your colony and it needs to be remedied quickly. Those rats need to be put on aggressive antibiotics, such as a Baytril/Doxycycline combo for a good 14 days.

People don't ever remember to quarantine rats. Rats can carry very bad viruses, such as SDA, Sendai, Staph-based pneumonia, and more. This is all contagious. Myco flare-ups are not. QUARANTINE QUARANTINE QUARANTINE! 30 DAYS MINIMUM! Or you will get sick and dying rats that may possibly be affected for life, regardless of if antibiotics are given. Their lungs scar very easily.

If you have an established colony of rats, bringing in feeders from outside sources SHOULD NOT BE DONE without a quarantine. You risk the health of your entire colony. Jay, your rats WILL die without getting antibiotics for them all. The virus or whatever is being passed around the colony will slowly keep killing them and will affect any rats you bring into the colony.

They NEED to see a vet and they need GOOD antibiotics(Amoxicillin will not cut it). Do not put Tylan in their water either, they will not drink it and will just become dehydrated.

Also, do not bring rats in from outside sources, and do not go to any pet stores and then immediately go home. You should always stay away from your home at least 2-3 hours after visiting a pet store with rats in stock, or you risk contaminating everything.

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Originally Posted by ch312

i have a homemade cage in our bedroom for our 2 pet rats. they have been sneezing for over a month now but it seems to have slowed down since i started using aspen instead of the horse bedding pellets.

behind the cage, the wall has a bunch of red spots which looks like blood on the wall but im assuming its not blood? the female has red crusty stuff around her nose.

the male tried to breed her a week ago and was trying to breed her again last night so im guessing she didnt get pregnant the first time or could he just be frisky? im guessing her illness may be preventing her from conceiving?

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WHY are you breeding a rat that is possibly sick and stressed? That's just going to put even more stress on her and she will likely just resorb the babies or have a miscarriage from it. Separate her and give her a dose of Children's Benadryl(0.1-0.2mL) every 4-6 hours. Getting them off of those pine pellets was a good thing. It's too dusty for them when it breaks down and pine affects rats more than it affects mice. Their respiratory systems are just too fragile.

Main thing is to get her away from the male so she doesn't end up pregnant. Get her on some low-dust bedding, like the aspen, and try the antihistamines. If she doesn't respond to those, then she'll need to see the vet for some antibiotics.

The rat has a vet appointment at 11 and my fiance is leaving now to take her. Her breathing is not as labored as it was last night but she's still struggling. She has been kept in a seperate room from the colony. The colony is only 8 individuals not including the babies. On the subject of babies, another pup died this morning.

How should I go about quarantining the whole colony? They share a room with my sugar gliders and snakes.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

The rat has a vet appointment at 11 and my fiance is leaving now to take her. Her breathing is not as labored as it was last night but she's still struggling. She has been kept in a seperate room from the colony. The colony is only 8 individuals not including the babies. On the subject of babies, another pup died this morning.

How should I go about quarantining the whole colony? They share a room with my sugar gliders and snakes.

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I'm not all up on rat diseases, but your worried about this spreading to the sugar gliders correct? I would just move them out of the room for now, unless it's easier to move the rats.

As to quarantining the rats, any new ones recently? I'd hate to say it, but treating 8 rats with anti-biotics, especially aggressive ones suggested by Becky will not be easy on your pocket book unless you have an extra nice vet.

I would remove the sick ones, and the ones that have been the closest to them into a separate room far away from the others. Most rat diseases are very contagious like Becky said. It'd almost be pointless, but no harm done in doing it anyways. Just practice very strict procedures when dealing inbetween them. (change of clothes and shoes, washing up strict)

I can't see very many people treating all of their rats for most illnesses (I get laughed at for it I'm sure), but hopefully you can figure out what the problem is and decide on a course of action from there.

If it is something very debilitating to your rats, you may have to start over from scratch. (knock on wood) Hopefully it's something easy to deal with.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

WHY are you breeding a rat that is possibly sick and stressed?

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because i dont have anymore enclosures suitable for a rat. im not concerned about the rats breeding too. i have over 12 adult mice to get rid of with another 8 frozen so if the rats dont produce thats fine.

i just picked up 2 more adult female rats today so hopefully they will get their groove on :D

Right.. Picked up 2 more rats from who knows where, brought them in your house and are risking the health of your entire colony. Especially when you have a sick rat, who you are allowing to be bred..

You don't care if she dies from a respiratory infection, or dies from the stress of carrying a litter, WHILE she is sick?

Wow..

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Originally Posted by ch312

because i dont have anymore enclosures suitable for a rat. im not concerned about the rats breeding too. i have over 12 adult mice to get rid of with another 8 frozen so if the rats dont produce thats fine.

i just picked up 2 more adult female rats today so hopefully they will get their groove on :D

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Go out and grab a cheap 10g tank then. Breeding a sick animal it just wrong IMO. It is not enough to be to say that you don't have a cage for it. Anytime that you have rats, mice, etc. you really need to make sure that you have extra tanks/cages around for quarantine purposes, and like in this case, to house sick inmates and give them some rest and a chance to get better. Now not only will you have a sick rat on your hands, but a pregnant and thus overstressed one as well.. :( There are other reasons to have spare housing. Suppose the male was beating up on the female, or vice versa? You can't very well say "oh they're fighting but I can't seperate them because I have no other cages."
I am really not trying to be nasty here; just thinking of the rats' best interests. In the meantime, it could be your bedding or a food allergy causing her symptoms or contributing to them as well.

The vet said its pneumonia and prescribed anti-biotics that the rat must take twice a day. We are to call the vet tomorrow and let her know how the rat is fairing. The rat's name is Chance, so lets see if she pulls through.

Thanks for all your help guys. If its pneumonia, how fast does that spread and can it be spread to my gliders or other animals, or even me?

Depends on what type of pneumonia.. If other rats have died, then it is something serious. Did you let him know that other rats have/had been affected and have died??

When it was mentioned to the vet about the babies, she said it might be litter size. This is the female's first litter and she had 14. Tonight I went in to check everyone's water and checked on Gazelle and her litter and found one dead. I removed it and then I saw a pup that looked small in comparison to its siblings. I picked it up and showed my fiance then put it back, ready to move on to the next cage. When I looked over at it not 5 minutes later, it was dead. I've noticed that the ones that are dying from the litter seem to be smaller and thinner than the others. I held up the dead pup to a live pup and there was a big difference in size. The other pups were pink and chubby, while all four dead pups were thin and pale.

Any ideas on that.

We just went up to give Chance her Baytril and she is doing so much better than yesterday! She's not gasping for breath like she was and is much more active. She is in QT in our bathroom and we'll be keeping a close eye on everyone in the Animal Room, especially her cage-mate Luck.

Oh and another tid-bit about the dead rat pups from Gazelle's litter. None of them have a milk band while the other healthy looking pups have gigantic milk bands. Should I go ahead and start checking all the pups for milk bands? What should I do if one doesn't have a milk band?

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Right.. Picked up 2 more rats from who knows where, brought them in your house and are risking the health of your entire colony. Especially when you have a sick rat, who you are allowing to be bred..

You don't care if she dies from a respiratory infection, or dies from the stress of carrying a litter, WHILE she is sick?

Wow..

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they are rats...the same rats that people stomp when they catch them in their garage. the same rats that breed like crazy in the wild when they are sick and diseased. they are snake food and nothing more so they get no pampering. if i were a serious breeder i would obviously quarantine the new rats and the sick ones to protect my breeders. i have 7 rats with 3 of those being feeders so its no big deal to wipe them out and start fresh.

i guess i dont have a soft spot in my heart for vermin...

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Suppose the male was beating up on the female, or vice versa? You can't very well say "oh they're fighting but I can't seperate them because I have no other cages."
I am really not trying to be nasty here; just thinking of the rats' best interests. In the meantime, it could be your bedding or a food allergy causing her symptoms or contributing to them as well.

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in my large 5 level cage i have 1.3 and the other tank has the 3 males in it. if there were problems i would sort it out or feed off the trouble maker. my girlfriend spoils the stupid things with treats and toys so they always have stuff to keep them busy.

im using mazuri 6f and aspen in their cage...

That depends on what your trying to compare them to. Our fancy rats are actually physically different and mentally different from wild rats from years of domestication and breeding. So, your right they are the same species, but they are less like wild rats than you would like to believe.

Respecting the life of your feeders is tantamount to breeding successfully. If you think it's easier to just start over, than you really have no clue what it takes to start a good colony.

I only have around 30 rats in my colony, and it would be a disaster to lose even 1/4 of those rats for my production. This isn't even close to what most people have for their collections.

Starting right from the beginning with strong genes, and careful selectivity and strict quarantine isn't "spoiling" by any stretch of imagination, it's making smart choices to build a strong foundation for your colony in the future.

If you choose to not practice quarantine even at a small level, you will find troubles shortly down the road. Especially if you've already shown contempt for what your feeding your snakes now, how do you expect you'll care any more when you have 30 female rats breeding?

Set some good rules for yourself now, and everything will be that much easier down the road.

You don't have to enjoy rats, but your doing a disservice to yourself by not taking time now to start right.

Just my .02 cents

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

You don't have to enjoy rats, but your doing a disservice to yourself by not taking time now to start right.

Just my .02 cents

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i really appreciate the advice. im clearly new to this :oops:

all of my rats were free so it wouldnt bother me if they all died today. i have 7 rats from 3 different places so i expected to get sick rats sooner or later. when i get serious about breeding them i will cull all of my current stock (except good breeders) and start fresh with good breeding stock from an actual breeder and use a good rack system.

these are pretty much my "test" rats to teach me about their habits and care before i put a bunch of money into a good setup to see if id like to breed in the future or not.

im working on a hedgehog breeding setup first and then the rats are next;)

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these are pretty much my "test" rats

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Well you are failing the test :rolleyes:

Breeding your own feeders mean having the opportunity to provide the BEST quality food possible for your snakes.

You are breeding sick animals, so tell me what kind of quality do you provide for your snakes?

For me rats and mice are breeders and feeders, however I make sure that they are healthy and properly cared for, why? Because in the end they end-up in my snakes belly so quality and health is important!

If you want the best for your snakes you need to start by respecting the preys.

I don't care if my rats are for breeding feeders. Some of my breeders are my pets and I love them dearly. They get great care and always have access to vet care if needed. Take for instance, Chance. Chance was a feeder turned breeder because my ball python refused her and she grew too large to be fed off. I have no emotional attachment to the rat and wouldn't mind feeding it off to a larger snake.

However! That rat developed pneumonia and off to the vet it went. $70 for the bill. That rat cost me around $3-4, and it probably would have been easier to CO2 the rat and get a new breeder, but no, I care about the health of my breeders and no rat in my colony will ever be without vet care.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Well you are failing the test :rolleyes:

Breeding your own feeders mean having the opportunity to provide the BEST quality food possible for your snakes.

You are breeding sick animals, so tell me what kind of quality do you provide for your snakes?

For me rats and mice are breeders and feeders, however I make sure that they are healthy and properly cared for, why? Because in the end they end-up in my snakes belly so quality and health is important!

If you want the best for your snakes you need to start by respecting the preys.

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because snakes dont eat sick animals in the wild right? talk to any biologist, outdoorsman, etc and they will tell you that predators target the young, old, and sick. im not saying one should strive to imitate that, but im sure a rat that is sneezing isnt going to hurt a snake. they are all eating and drinking well, look very healthy, and are full of energy so it cant be that bad.

lol i didnt think people would be so offended by a rat that is sneezing. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by ch312

because snakes dont eat sick animals in the wild right? talk to any biologist, outdoorsman, etc and they will tell you that predators target the young, old, and sick. im not saying one should strive to imitate that, but im sure a rat that is sneezing isnt going to hurt a snake. they are all eating and drinking well, look very healthy, and are full of energy so it cant be that bad.

lol i didnt think people would be so offended by a rat that is sneezing. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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You are so missing the point! :rolleyes:

Of course in the wild they eat whatever is available, this is not the wild and YOU have the opportunity to provide them with high quality feeders, but YOU chose not too.

I could buy feeders from a local place yet I chose not to, why? Because I had the opportunity to visit their place and this is in no way the kind of feeders I want to provide to my snakes.

You are failing at breeding and I can guaranty that you will have a hard time maintaining a healthy colony with that type of thinking.

Hopefully you will not breed snakes in the future because I can see how this would be going.

Anyway to each their own.

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Originally Posted by ch312

because snakes dont eat sick animals in the wild right? talk to any biologist, outdoorsman, etc and they will tell you that predators target the young, old, and sick. im not saying one should strive to imitate that, but im sure a rat that is sneezing isnt going to hurt a snake. they are all eating and drinking well, look very healthy, and are full of energy so it cant be that bad.

lol i didnt think people would be so offended by a rat that is sneezing. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Exactly. So what is the basis for the survival of the fittest?

If snakes are eating the ill ones, slow ones, ones hurt by disease or hunger or injury, what purpose does it serve besides the feeding of the snake?

It helps prolong the best genes in the species!
Don't you want the best in your colony?

I can understand where your coming from, the snake doesn't care how healthy the rat is he just wants to eat, but you should.

Providing a higher quality food source, full of an abundance of proteins, minerals and vitamins will benefit your snake more than Joe shmoe's who buys from the local feed store's undernourished rats.

Just like dogs or cats, we want to provide the best food to give the best quality of life and health to our animals.

You are what you eat! :)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Of course in the wild they eat whatever is available, this is not the wild and YOU have the opportunity to provide them with high quality feeders, but YOU chose not too.

You are failing at breeding and I can guaranty that you will have a hard time maintaining a healthy colony with that type of thinking.

Hopefully you will not breed snakes in the future because I can see how this would be going.

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1)i get all of my adult mice (sometimes small rats) from a breeder who has been doing it for over 5 years. my snake hasnt even seen this sick rat before...

2)the ONE rat with the problem just came into estrus for her first time last week. how can i fail at breeding when i just started:rolleyes: if this rat gets any worse ill just get rid of it.

3)how would it be going with breeding snakes all mighty one? did you not read my post about me not caring if these rats breed or not and i would buy breeders from an established breeder in the future? why would i waste money on breeding rats before i knew if i liked doing it or not?

its funny how you automatically assume i have some breeding operation going where i am breeding all kinds of sick rats :rofl::rolleyes:

how about ask questions before ASSuming something?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Don't you want the best in your colony?

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yes, of course. when i get serious about it ;)

i have 13 adult mice and 3 rats my ONE snake could eat so it wont phase me at all to get rid of a few sick animals.

If the sick rat JUST went into heat for the FIRST time in her life, then she's 5-6 weeks old. Why is she being bred at this age??

Read up on rat anatomy, and then maybe try breeding them. Healthy rats produce health offspring. Sick rats do not and will likely die if you try to breed them.

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Originally Posted by ch312

3)how would it be going with breeding snakes all mighty one? did you not read my post about me not caring if these rats breed or not and i would buy breeders from an established breeder in the future?why would i waste money on breeding rats before i knew if i liked doing it or not?

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Then why do you have the females in with the male right now?

Are you trying to breed or not, you are dancing around this saying something like "I'm not serious... I just want her to get pregnant, so I bought 3 more females, hopefully they take soon."

Are you actually trying to breed now or not?

If your experimenting, your most likely not going to like the results from breeding a young sick rat. She may only have a small litter now, if any. She may eat them because she can not care for them.

So exactly why are you breeding them now? You either are or you aren't.

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its funny how you automatically assume i have some breeding operation going where i am breeding all kinds of sick rats :rofl::rolleyes:

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I am not assuming nor did I say you had an operation going.

Those are not assumptions, those are your words

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Originally Posted by ch312

i have a homemade cage in our bedroom for our 2 pet rats. they have been sneezing for over a month now

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That is not called healthy!

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the male tried to breed her a week ago and was trying to breed her again last night

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That's called breeding!

Breeding sick animals whether it 2 or 200 is all the same!

This thread has gone way off the original subject and I think its really crappy that someone like you would come in here and start talking about how you are keeping young and sick rats together and letting them breed. I love my rats and even if you don't care for rats you still need to be providing them with the best possible care. Many of mine are pets and beloved members of the family. The other breeders and even feeders are treated no less than pets (we just are not attached to them). All get clean water, fresh food, and clean bedding. If they are sick, they go to the vet, no questions asked. (Unless its a feeder and then it gets euthanized)