anyone got any info on these

http://photos.imageevent.com/royalpy...e/DSCN4275.JPG
picture credit to J. Hornstein @ royal python reptiles


just seen this on another forum and wanted to ask about it.

from what ive read its black pastels and to a lesser extent cinnys that throw out deformed babies.

i know theres a few people working with these morphs so whar are your thoughts on it. or can you dispel anything to do with this?? what are your breeding experiances. is it that common??

i was thinking of getting into black pastels and cinnys in the future but im starting to re-considder.

I have never seen Cinnies or Black pastels throw out those babies.

I've never seen that particular trait happen at all.. Looks like the cleft palate in humans.

In the super form of Black Pastel/Cinny, they have a "duck bill", as in the face is flatter and wider, but not like that...

Maybe someone with more experience with that can chime in, but in my personal experience, I have never had any babies like that.

this is a direct quote that ive read.

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CLEFT LIPS

This is a good example of what happens in cinny's and more so in black pastels. That's why there are not many black pastels for sale. Breeders are abandoning black pastels in favor of cinny's. Fewer facial deformities.

I have seen many that were far worse and frozen at hatching.

This little guy was produced by J. Hornstein.

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I just had the chance to see visit a good breeder friend of mine that lives a few hours away. He breed two black pastels together and had 3 litters total over the years. Used two different males. In each clutch all the supers had messed up faces and were put down.

He also had a pair of BHB cinny's lay twice and in both clutches the supers were perfect. They had the typical stubby nose but no clefts.

He is ditching his black pastels now and only keeping his BHB cinny's. He talked to a few other breeders that have all experienced the same ill effects and have all come to the same conclusion. Black pastels are only good for making combos not supers.

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ive seen the super and it looks like a duck billed plattypus....quite scary really.

I believe Heather is correct - the super form of the black pastel/cinny have a tendency to look a little odd (some not all) - like they have a duck bill. I don't think anyone has noted the difference in "normal" or the co-dom version offspring.

That (pictured) is just a deformity - the heat pits don't even look like they are all there. Without further info on the snake it would be hard to pass on anything other than speculation as to what happened.

That snake doesnt even look like a black pastel to me.

I've hatched out a snake looking something like that from breeding a normal to a normal. It's a deformity, they happen sometimes. Both the cinnys and the black pastels will throw homozygous animals with the duck billed look, which does NOT look like that picture.

The quotes that you posted sound more like someone spreading rumors trying to dump on the black pastel projects in order to sell more cinnamons. I'd be leary of listening to them unless a whole lot more evidence was forthcoming.

I've never heard of deformities from a non-homozygous form of the black pastel or cinnie. If you produced a snake with that deformity, what would you do with it?

JonV

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've hatched out a snake looking something like that from breeding a normal to a normal. It's a deformity, they happen sometimes. Both the cinnys and the black pastels will throw homozygous animals with the duck billed look, which does NOT look like that picture.

The quotes that you posted sound more like someone spreading rumors trying to dump on the black pastel projects in order to sell more cinnamons. I'd be leary of listening to them unless a whole lot more evidence was forthcoming.

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Amen to that Mark...

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

I've never heard of deformities from a non-homozygous form of the black pastel or cinnie. If you produced a snake with that deformity, what would you do with it?

JonV

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Freeze it...

BT

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

In the super form of Black Pastel/Cinny, they have a "duck bill", as in the face is flatter and wider

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I've heard of this, but have never seen it. Does anyone have any pictures to add?

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I have never seen Cinnies or Black pastels throw out those babies.

I've never seen that particular trait happen at all.. Looks like the cleft palate in humans.

In the super form of Black Pastel/Cinny, they have a "duck bill", as in the face is flatter and wider, but not like that...

Maybe someone with more experience with that can chime in, but in my personal experience, I have never had any babies like that.

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that is exactly what i was thinking

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Freeze it...

BT

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why freeze it over co2 chamber? freezing seems like it would suck.

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Originally Posted by jdmls88

why freeze it over co2 chamber? freezing seems like it would suck.

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Which ever method works for you - Needs to be put down is all I was saying...
BT

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Which ever method works for you - Needs to be put down is all I was saying...
BT

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That's what I was thinking as well.

JonV

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've hatched out a snake looking something like that from breeding a normal to a normal. It's a deformity, they happen sometimes. Both the cinnys and the black pastels will throw homozygous animals with the duck billed look, which does NOT look like that picture.

The quotes that you posted sound more like someone spreading rumors trying to dump on the black pastel projects in order to sell more cinnamons. I'd be leary of listening to them unless a whole lot more evidence was forthcoming.

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that could be a possibility...and they are working with the cinnamons.

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Originally Posted by Icatsme

I've heard of this, but have never seen it. Does anyone have any pictures to add?

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http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...clutch_2_1.jpg

Quote from ralph davis

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Originally Posted by Ralph Davis

As you can see the little "Super" female has "that look"..........that duck-billed platypus look......I'm not sure that there is any hope for the super form of the Cinny or Black Pastel? I call it like I see it.......and I see deformities all over the place with this mutation ( super ). I think anything ( cross / morph ) that has the super cinny visible is gonna look tweaked.........

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So did anyone ask Jarred about that animal (i.e. is it even a black/cinnamon pastel and has he really seen problems in them or only in the homozygous)?

I had not heard of either the nose problems or the kinking in the heterozygous animals (i.e. the cinnamons or the black pastels) but I wouldn't necessarily know as I don't have either.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've hatched out a snake looking something like that from breeding a normal to a normal. It's a deformity, they happen sometimes. Both the cinnys and the black pastels will throw homozygous animals with the duck billed look, which does NOT look like that picture.

The quotes that you posted sound more like someone spreading rumors trying to dump on the black pastel projects in order to sell more cinnamons. I'd be leary of listening to them unless a whole lot more evidence was forthcoming.

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Right on, pure common sense there!