Not intent on breeding?

I have noticed a growing trend in the last two or three years of keepers that get their first Ball python. After as little as a few weeks or even a few months of keeping these wonderful animals this new keeper feels drawn to breeding. I think this has to do small in part to how easy many breeders make things look. The other factor is that there are so many morphs out and many of them so expensive that most people think the only way to aquire them is to breed for them. For many of the masses it is true.

I do how ever worry that many new keepers rush to the breeding side of things. Without truly understanding what they are getting themselves into. Where have the keepers gone that simply enjoy them and have no drive to breed.Where have the keepers gone that can say I have a Ball python and I really don't want to breed.

You see it all to often where people get the urge to breed pick up a couple of projects and then their excitement fizzles cause they come to understand that there is work involved in breeding.

So with all that said I want to hear stories about people a their Ball pythons that have no intention of breeding.

So please it can even be a morph but Only people that do not want to breed.

How about maybe not balls, but boas?

I just picked up a great RTB this weekend, and while I think breeding is a great and all, I have absolutely no desire to breed boas. Just not what I want. I bought this animal as a display and companion animal. I may get a few others... but I just have no urge to breed my own. I'd rather just buy a great looking animal if it speaks to me that much.

Having a rack full of balls is great, but I also want to enjoy my animals too. Having a room full of BP's is a dream, but I don't see it happening.

I would rather get a nice collection of different species of snakes and lizards over racks and racks of one species with the intent on breeding.

Now bloods on the other hand.... I can't get enough of them! I dream of the day I could get a room full of all 3 species like Kara's!

I guess it depends on how enthusiastic you are for whatever you want to work with. For me, bloods are definitely my absolute favorite species, and I really want to breed my own, and for those suckras... patience seems to be the key to everything. :gj:

**great post btw Ed** ;)

I know you said keepers and not breeders but I would like to share my 2 cents.

I did 3 years of volunteering and researching before even purchasing my first ball with no intentions of breeding. Once i got everything set up and he was happy and feeding normally I picked up a spider female. I had no initial intension's of breading but I got kind of bored keeping snakes after a short time. I learned all I needed to know about husbandry before keeping and I applied it. But cleaning once a week and feeding once a week loses its reward pretty quickly. Now I intend to learn everything needed to breed. Besides a little mishap that recently happened I am excited for the 08 season. I feel like i've gone way beyond the average keeper in these parts. Breeding my own rats, building my own racks. Even offering husbandry techniques to people on CL. I am not breeding to make money, but to trade what I have to diversify my collection. Id trade a killerbee if I had one to someone with a cinni if I needed it. I think its all a state of mind followed by responsible action. Turning your nose up to people who people who backyard breed then flake out before there first clutch is one thing I guess. But to me none of this matters. As long as people arnt breaking laws that will make them even tougher later on or people hurting animals is all I really care about. And even then I don't sweat it. I figure whatever happens in my house is none of anyones buisness.

I'm a non-breeding pet owner!

I can see the appeal of breeding animals - it's exciting! However, I don't want to add to the population of animals.

In a case where there isn't enough domestic supply of a certain animal to fill the demand, I would condier breeding in order to move the trade toward captive bred and away from wild caught. However, with ball pythons I don't see that as the case. There may always be some economic reason that wild caught is cheaper, but it's not supply that's the issue.

I've bred other animals in the past solely to create a domestic supply of a species....I may join in those types of efforts in the future. I don't breed for me - I breed for sustainability.

I also don't have the 'one of every color' collecting urges with animals, so I won't be breeding for my own collection either.

I don't fault people for choosing to breed their animals though, as long as it's done responsibly and the animals and their young are well cared for. More power to those people :gj:

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I did 3 years of volunteering and researching before even purchasing my first ball with no intentions of breeding. Once i got everything set up and he was happy and feeding normally I picked up a spider female.

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Your the type of keeper I am looking to hear from the kind that spends time learning about the animals before even trying to keep them. Bravo!

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I had no initial intension's of breading but I got kind of bored keeping snakes after a short time. I learned all I needed to know about husbandry before keeping and I applied it. But cleaning once a week and feeding once a week loses its reward pretty quickly.

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How can it get boring if you love ball pythons enough to learn all that about them prior to keeping them where does boring come to call. Was it visually looking at the same animals every week or was it that once the new wore off now keepers feel the need to move to the "next step".

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Now I intend to learn everything needed to breed. Besides a little mishap that recently happened I am excited for the 08 season. I feel like i've gone way beyond the average keeper in these parts. Breeding my own rats, building my own racks. Even offering husbandry techniques to people on CL.

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Fantastic the hobby needs more people like you willing to learn first then do.

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I am not breeding to make money, but to trade what I have to diversify my collection. Id trade a killerbee if I had one to someone with a cinni if I needed it.

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I understand expanding your collection 100% and have no problem with that in fact I have no problem with breeding for money hell I do it.

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Turning your nose up to people who people who backyard breed then flake out before there first clutch is one thing I guess.

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Not turning my nose up at it by any means. It just saddens me to see the new keeper get bored with their animals so quickly and feel that breeding is the only solution to fill the "New and Exciting" void. See I think once people get a routine of feeding and cleaning and handling and every thing is going smooth most will look at their pet and say "This is it theres got to be more to it than just this." Then they see breeders and go "Aha thats what I want to do" Fine great but what stops the "New and Exciting" from wearing off of that.

Where are the keeper that are content with their "pets".

I am one of them I have a Pet ball python. I have had this animal for years and years I don't even know the animals sex..don't care. I have no intent of ever breeding this animal for any reason. It is my pet and if I had to sale all my breeders it would be the one I would never even consider getting rid of. I spent years falling in love with the animal and thats what sparked me wanting to breed I wanted more I wanted to see the different personalities, I wanted to be surrounded by them have rooms full of them. I have spiders, mojos, several pastels, hets out the butt, but I still handle my pet every morning and even loads on the weekends. It is my favorite and my friend. My breeders are that breeders but the new has never worn off not even off my first one.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

How can it get boring if you love ball pythons enough to learn all that about them prior to keeping them where does boring come to call. Was it visually looking at the same animals every week or was it that once the new wore off now keepers feel the need to move to the "next step".

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Well I put him in a tub. and handled him once in awhile. They are not like a dog, so there isnt much of a thrill other than feeding day. I guess I was looking for that next step. I think I love the community as much as I love the animals. I like the whispers about new projects and new imports. I love the people involved. In order to maintain some sort of relevance in this community I feel like I might need to bring something to the table. Sure I would love to be the first to produce something, but that means a lot less to me than the excitement of babies piping and people on the forums just as eager as I am. Feel like breeding is what separates the pet owners from the Ball Python enthusiast. At least in my book. Its the not being able to sleep around day 54 that I am most eager for.


Not turning my nose up at it by any means. It just saddens me to see the new keeper get bored with their animals so quickly and feel that breeding is the only solution to fill the "New and Exciting" void. See I think once people get a routine of feeding and cleaning and handling and every thing is going smooth most will look at their pet and say "This is it theres got to be more to it than just this." Then they see breeders and go "Aha thats what I want to do" Fine great but what stops the "New and Exciting" from wearing off of that.

Where are the keeper that are content with their "pets".

I am one of them I have a Pet ball python. I have had this animal for years and years I don't even know the animals sex..don't care. I have no intent of ever breeding this animal for any reason. It is my pet and if I had to sale all my breeders it would be the one I would never even consider getting rid of. I spent years falling in love with the animal and thats what sparked me wanting to breed I wanted more I wanted to see the different personalities, I wanted to be surrounded by them have rooms full of them. I have spiders, mojos, several pastels, hets out the butt, but I still handle my pet every morning and even loads on the weekends. It is my favorite and my friend. My breeders are that breeders but the new has never worn off not even off my first one.[/QUOTE]

I have my first snake that I am very attached to. I would never sell him. He is what got me started and I can't wait to see him as an old fart. I look at it like this. Having a ball python is like having a really nice car. And breeding your ball is like driving that car. Sure it looks great in the garage, but you dont know how to drive it until its on the road. Sure you own a ball python, but you are not the entire keeper until you understand all aspects of the species including breeding.And the best way to learn is research then personal trial and error.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I have noticed a growing trend in the last two or three years of keepers that get their first Ball python. After as little as a few weeks or even a few months of keeping these wonderful animals this new keeper feels drawn to breeding. I think this has to do small in part to how easy many breeders make things look. The other factor is that there are so many morphs out and many of them so expensive that most people think the only way to aquire them is to breed for them. For many of the masses it is true.

I do how ever worry that many new keepers rush to the breeding side of things. Without truly understanding what they are getting themselves into. Where have the keepers gone that simply enjoy them and have no drive to breed.Where have the keepers gone that can say I have a Ball python and I really don't want to breed.

You see it all to often where people get the urge to breed pick up a couple of projects and then their excitement fizzles cause they come to understand that there is work involved in breeding.

So with all that said I want to hear stories about people a their Ball pythons that have no intention of breeding.

So please it can even be a morph but Only people that do not want to breed.

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I agree with you to the max! but what makes a new ball python owner unfit to breed? If they do their research and know their stuff why shouldnt they be allowed? I mean if they are in it for the money then they wont succeed mainly because they havent gained the friends most of us "usuals" have in this industry. You have to take in to consideration that all these new people are keeping this industry alive. You think adam, Brian, or ralph have customers buying 20 pastels? No each customer buys one maybe 2. If we didnt have newbies who would buy the rest?:confused:

I'd like to play devil's advocate and suggest that forums like this are part of the drive to breed.

You mentioned 'making it look easy'
but there's also the shared excitement WB mentioned
AND there's the natural escalation of mastery, which WB also mentioned. I have seen and felt it in every hobby I've enjoyed - the feeling that you have not truly arrived until you are indulging every aspect of that hobby. The same thing that makes me want CO2 for my aquarium and 40" tires for my jeep also drives me to want to breed my animals. I resist that urge but I have to bear the feelings of inadquacy and lack of expertise I feel as a result. poor me!

I must say I am very interested in the idea of breeding and I will purchase an albino girl this year, but I don't plan to simply because I will be moving in spring of 2010 and I don't have the extra money sitting around to ensure I have the proper set up to incubate.

I would love to breed to add to my own collection and because the whole process is incredible to me, but I spend enough time fussing over my bp now as it is. Once I have a steady job and have moved and settled, then maybe I'll go for some babies, and when I do, I want to keep them. (Time for a rack!) But for now, my little dude is plenty to keep me happy!

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

I'd like to play devil's advocate and suggest that forums like this are part of the drive to breed.

You mentioned 'making it look easy'
but there's also the shared excitement WB mentioned
AND there's the natural escalation of mastery, which WB also mentioned. I have seen and felt it in every hobby I've enjoyed - the feeling that you have not truly arrived until you are indulging every aspect of that hobby. The same thing that makes me want CO2 for my aquarium and 40" tires for my jeep also drives me to want to breed my animals. I resist that urge but I have to bear the feelings of inadquacy and lack of expertise I feel as a result. poor me!

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I totally agree with you. I knew if I was going to do this I was going to do it to the max. Like I do with everything I am interested in. Its why I started hiking, then I learned about the applachian trail. Now I plan on doing the AT in 09 ( was planned for 08 but messed up my knee real bad) After that id like to start doing winter mountaineering. It just goes on and on and on.

I don't have any plans to breed BPs. Auryn's my first BP and he's a Lemon Pastel. I adore him, and I'd love to have one of the more expensive morphs, but I'm not going to breed my way there. When I'm ready for another BP, I'm hoping my dream morph's price has dropped a bit. I'm in LOVE with Honey Bees, and I'll probably add one to my collection some day. I like the simplicity of having one snake, and maybe two eventually...but I just can't see myself with incubators and racks upon racks of snakes. Auryn's my pet, and any future snake I have will be a pet, too :)

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Well I put him in a tub. and handled him once in awhile. They are not like a dog, so there isn't much of a thrill other than feeding day.

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I disagree there is the thrill of knowing you have taken what you learned and successfully housed, fed and maintained an African species of snake.

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I guess I was looking for that next step. I think I love the community as much as I love the animals. I like the whispers about new projects and new imports. I love the people involved. In order to maintain some sort of relevance in this community I feel like I might need to bring something to the table. Sure I would love to be the first to produce something, but that means a lot less to me than the excitement of babies piping and people on the forums just as eager as I am. Feel like breeding is what separates the pet owners from the Ball Python enthusiast. At least in my book. Its the not being able to sleep around day 54 that I am most eager for.

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The community aspect is fantastic I agree but I can tell you from experiance you don't have to breed to bring something to the table. And breeding isn't what divides the enthusiast from the pet keeper any more than not driving a NHRA Top fuel dragster makes me any less of a car lover. It is merely the level we wish to express it. But you would take a 16 year old new driver and encourage them to drive NHRA saying "Oh it's really easy you just do this then do this then do this and boom your an NHRA racer"

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I have my first snake that I am very attached to. I would never sell him. He is what got me started and I can't wait to see him as an old fart. I look at it like this. Having a ball python is like having a really nice car. And breeding your ball is like driving that car. Sure it looks great in the garage, but you don't know how to drive it until its on the road. Sure you own a ball python, but you are not the entire keeper until you understand all aspects of the species including breeding.And the best way to learn is research then personal trial and error.

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No it would be more akin giving a new born a car and then saying you have everything you need now go drive.

The line from Jurassic Park fits best here.

They were so preoccupied as to where or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should.

i have an Amel corn snake. she was my first snake and i do not plan on breeding her. shes is in a display in the snake room on top of some of the rack systems.

I have zero interest in breeding. My animals are strictly "pets".

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I agree with you to the max! but what makes a new ball python owner unfit to breed? If they do their research and know their stuff why shouldn't they be allowed?

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Nothing what so ever in fact.

But I'm talking about someone that has barely gotten their snake to eat 40 times wanting to jump off head first into breeding that I don't understand. Is it boredom, is it money, or is it the possibility of breeding their way to that dream morph that causes it.

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But I'm talking about someone that has barely gotten their snake to eat 40 times wanting to jump off head first into breeding that I don't understand.

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My honest opinion?

You've said "they think breeding is easy...."
BP morphs cost thousands retail...
easy breeding + thousands of dollars = EASY MONEY.

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The same thing that makes me want CO2 for my aquarium and 40" tires for my jeep also drives me to want to breed my animals. I resist that urge but I have to bear the feelings of inadequacy and lack of expertise I feel as a result. poor me!

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Inadequacy?? Why would not having indulged in every aspect make one feel inadequate. That is what I am trying to understand where contentment lies and why being content has gone (for so many new keepers)from the idea of years of doing it right to "if I'm not breeding" so there for I have yet to truly enjoy Ball pythons.

If the government said tomorrow you couldn't breed for what ever reason would the new keepers still have their pets 15 years from now?

i picked up a boa this month and have no intents on breeding him hes a pet and a pet alone

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I disagree there is the thrill of knowing you have taken what you learned and successfully housed, fed and maintained an African species of snake.


The community aspect is fantastic I agree but I can tell you from experiance you don't have to breed to bring something to the table. And breeding isn't what divides the enthusiast from the pet keeper any more than not driving a NHRA Top fuel dragster makes me any less of a car lover. It is merely the level we wish to express it. But you would take a 16 year old new driver and encourage them to drive NHRA saying "Oh it's really easy you just do this then do this then do this and boom your an NHRA racer"




No it would be more akin giving a new born a car and then saying you have everything you need now go drive.

The line from Jurassic Park fits best here.

They were so preoccupied as to where or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should.

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I dont agree. People get involved in racing not from owning a car but being pushed by a dream. People start racing carts and pit bikes long before they touch anything over 150cc. Well not everyone but a lot of top racers today. Owning my bps are like racing a cart. Been there done that, now im ready for the next step. I'm ready to be all I can be in this hobby.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

My honest opinion?

You've said "they think breeding is easy...."
BP morphs cost thousands retail...
easy breeding + thousands of dollars = EASY MONEY.

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It is hard not to think that at first when you see the prices on some morphs, but people who are fairly new to the world of BPs (including myself) do not always do all the calculations before they jump in. Such as the price to construct or buy an incubator, the space and equipment to care for the juveniles, vet bills, time, patience knowledge, ect.

I can't wait to breed but I won't be doing it for some time. I may not even have an interest in breeding by the time I am ready for it.

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

i have an Amel corn snake. she was my first snake and i do not plan on breeding her. shes is in a display in the snake room on top of some of the rack systems.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I have zero interest in breeding. My animals are strictly "pets".

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

I don't have any plans to breed BPs. Auryn's my first BP and he's a Lemon Pastel. I adore him, and I'd love to have one of the more expensive morphs, but I'm not going to breed my way there. When I'm ready for another BP, I'm hoping my dream morph's price has dropped a bit. I'm in LOVE with Honey Bees, and I'll probably add one to my collection some day. I like the simplicity of having one snake, and maybe two eventually...but I just can't see myself with incubators and racks upon racks of snakes. Auryn's my pet, and any future snake I have will be a pet, too :)

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Originally Posted by Monty

i picked up a boa this month and have no intents on breeding him hes a pet and a pet alone

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See I love reptiles and I hate to see them merely thought of as a "Cash Cow" and I think that is my fear that new keepers see the value of Morphed anything and say that can't be that hard jump in head first and if they fail it the animals that suffer the price.

So to here people buying even normals just for pets really warms my heart. :D

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

See I love reptiles and I hate to see them merely thought of as a "Cash Cow" and I think that is my fear that new keepers see the value of Morphed anything and say that can't be that hard jump in head first and if they fail it the animals that suffer the price.

So to here people buying even normals just for pets really warms my heart. :D

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Do you breed?

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Originally Posted by WellyBelly

now im ready for the next step. I'm ready to be all I can be in this hobby.

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Great bravo! I will even sell you some breeding stock. Now a question. How long did it take you get to a point that you were ready to move on?

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Originally Posted by WellyBelly

Do you breed?

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This is my first year. So yes I did start breeding this year

Ok, I understand breeding is a task, but c'mon.. it's really just a lot of work. I'm pretty sure a lot of the high level breeders aren't rocket scientist. I'm not saying you don't have to be smart, but really it's understanding what the animal needs and providing it to them.

And I'm also thinking your getting your ideas from this forum. People that spend enough time here are of course going to want to breed. But if you asked you general BP owner, I'm sure they wouldn't want to, and I bet most of them have never heard of this place.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Great bravo! I will even sell you some breeding stock. Now a question. How long did it take you get to a point that you were ready to move on?

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I knew I wanted to breed before i ever owned a ball. But I knew the first step to doing so was being an experienced keeper. I would have been ready this year as far as what was needed but I did not feel the need to rush. The first time I saw a Pied in a store I started buying books. Once I realized the culture behind it and the newness of it all is when I realized it was something for me. Genetics are what really keep me interested, then applying the rules of genetics to said animals. Trust me if it was a type of flower that got my attention instead of the high white wonder I doubt id be even on this forum. And I bet i'd have a lot more cash in my wallet.

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Originally Posted by Skoalbasher

Ok, I understand breeding is a task, but c'mon.. it's really just a lot of work. I'm pretty sure a lot of the high level breeders aren't rocket scientist. I'm not saying you don't have to be smart, but really it's understanding what the animal needs and providing it to them.

And I'm also thinking your getting your ideas from this forum. People that spend enough time here are of course going to want to breed. But if you asked you general BP owner, I'm sure they wouldn't want to, and I bet most of them have never heard of this place.

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I love your snakes names. PF is my favorite movie.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

This is my first year. So yes I did start breeding this year

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Then what got you from keeper to breeder?

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Ok, I understand breeding is a task, but c'mon.. it's really just a lot of work. I'm pretty sure a lot of the high level breeders aren't rocket scientist. I'm not saying you don't have to be smart, but really it's understanding what the animal needs and providing it to them.

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No that is keeping them. Breeding is far more than that. Its being able to tell when and if there is medically something wrong that might endanger the animals involved. Its being able to not only provided for the breeders but the baby's which 99.995% of all new keepers have a hard time with to start with. There is far more than most people understand. Or even I understood when I got started I spent 2 years researching with some of the top breeders and still feel unprepared.

My first reaction to your question, why is it that so many new keepers get hot on breeding...well the peer pressure isn't great. =)

I mean, look at this place...no offense, but the vast majority of people who are wonderful and beloved regulars on b-p.net are breeders, from big-time, big name breeders to future and hobbyist breeders and everything in between. We talk about and worship plastic tubs, racking systems, breeding plans, what should morphs I should start my colony with, etc.

I sometimes feel like an outcast since I am resolutely a pet owner who keeps snakes in display vivariums. (no worries - you ain't gettin' rid of me that easily) =D

Anywho, "should I breed?" easily is an early question a new BP or any species snake keeper will ask themselves since most snake forums (I certainly don't want to single out this place =D) since so many people engage in some level of breeding.


So...pet owners unite! Have you hugged your pet snake today?! :D

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Originally Posted by WellyBelly

Then what got you from keeper to breeder?

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My love of the animal. I had kept Balls for 4-5 years before ever even thought about breeding. Then when I did I spent 2 more years learning everything I could about the reproduction of Balls. From egg binding to follicular retention. I then just this year started slow with two females. I have 8 ready to go but I am still learning and why would I risk my animals safety for my haste.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

My love of the animal. I had kept Balls for 4-5 years before ever even thought about breeding. Then when I did I spent 2 more years learning everything I could about the reproduction of Balls. From egg binding to follicular retention. I then just this year started slow with two females. I have 8 ready to go but I am still learning and why would I risk my animals safety for my haste.

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Yeah thats how i feel. I feel like I have A LOT to learn about the reproduction aspects and I spend about 6 hours a day reading as much as I can on the subject.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

My first reaction to your question, why is it that so many new keepers get hot on breeding...well the peer pressure isn't great. =)

I mean, look at this place...no offense, but the vast majority of people who are wonderful and beloved regulars on b-p.net are breeders, from big-time, big name breeders to future and hobbyist breeders and everything in between. We talk about and worship plastic tubs, racking systems, breeding plans, what should morphs I should start my colony with, etc.

I sometimes feel like an outcast since I am resolutely a pet owner who keeps snakes in display vivariums. (no worries - you ain't gettin' rid of me that easily) =D

Anywho, "should I breed?" easily is an early question a new BP or any species snake keeper will ask themselves since most snake forums (I certainly don't want to single out this place =D) since so many people engage in some level of breeding.


So...pet owners unite! Have you hugged your pet snake today?! :D

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There thank you so you feel like for you it's seeing many people on here that cause you to want a little piece of that pie. Ok now we're getting somewhere.

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Originally Posted by WellyBelly

Yeah thats how i feel. I feel like I have A LOT to learn about the reproduction aspects and I spend about 6 hours a day reading as much as I can on the subject.

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Then your the keeper I applaud but its those just getting in to balls and 3 months later declare their intentions to breed. Whats the rush ?

I am/was thinking about breeding, but the only reason would be to get a bumble bee. Right now they are just waaay out of my price range, but I want one more than I can even say. I have a male pastel and I would love a female spider so I can make my own bees, it would be much cheaper and more exciting. But I know that I am not ready to breed, I have only had my snakes about 4 months, and they are too young and too small to breed anyways.


SO....
If someone wants to give me a bee.....
lol just kidding

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I am/was thinking about breeding, but the only reason would be to get a bumble bee. Right now they are just waaay out of my price range, but I want one more than I can even say. I have a male pastel and I would love a female spider so I can make my own bees, it would be much cheaper and more exciting. But I know that I am not ready to breed, I have only had my snakes about 4 months, and they are too young and too small to breed anyways.


SO....
If someone wants to give me a bee.....
lol just kidding

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Breeding to expand your collection is fine its great its what I live for. Breeding because your bored or think its just what you do with ball pythons turns my stomach

This is my frist year breeding but I just want to share a little..

I remember when my step sister bought her first ball python. She lived with my grandma along with me. I didn’t have permission to get a snake and she wouldn’t allow me to “play” with hers. She housed him in a basic 10 gal with only newspaper, no heat element was present.
Every day when I got out of school (5th Grade )I would run into her room and hold Shorty. (She was at work at this time) I would always put him up when her car was pulling in.
One day I was at a friend’s house and was telling her about “the” awesome Shorty. That then sparked an interest in her getting one. I was looking for a care guide for her when I stumbled upon TSK website. That is when I saw the piebald and other morphs. I wanted one. It had to of been the most amazing thing I had witnessed. I rushed over to the for sale page and died when I seen the price.
Ever sense then I always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to raise/breed these beautiful creatures. But until I was able to get a job the thought stayed locked away. During this waiting period I also was able to learn the proper way to care for Ball Pythons. My sister then had her first child and didn’t care about Shorty any longer and he was given to me when she moved out.
Talk about the proudest day in my life! ! ! ! !
I have Ball Pythons that I have no interest in breeding (Mainly Normal Males / Shorty included) but I could never trade or sell them off. I love them just too much. Even the females and morphs that I have that are or one day will be breeders I consider them my babies. Again I love them so much. I know I could never get rid of them.
Even though I have plans on breeding them I still consider them my pets…I am stunned every time I look at them…Before my day can start I rush into the snake room either to clean or merely stare that them. They are all so gorgeous!

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch Art

This is my frist year breeding but I just want to share a little..

I remember when my step sister bought her first ball python. She lived with my grandma along with me. I didn’t have permission to get a snake and she wouldn’t allow me to “play” with hers. She housed him in a basic 10 gal with only newspaper, no heat element was present.
Every day when I got out of school (5th Grade )I would run into her room and hold Shorty. (She was at work at this time) I would always put him up when her car was pulling in.
One day I was at a friend’s house and was telling her about “the” awesome Shorty. That then sparked an interest in her getting one. I was looking for a care guide for her when I stumbled upon TSK website. That is when I saw the piebald and other morphs. I wanted one. It had to of been the most amazing thing I had witnessed. I rushed over to the for sale page and died when I seen the price.
Ever sense then I always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to raise/breed these beautiful creatures. But until I was able to get a job the thought stayed locked away. During this waiting period I also was able to learn the proper way to care for Ball Pythons. My sister then had her first child and didn’t care about Shorty any longer and he was given to me when she moved out.
Talk about the proudest day in my life! ! ! ! !
I have Ball Pythons that I have no interest in breeding (Mainly Normal Males / Shorty included) but I could never trade or sell them off. I love them just too much. Even the females and morphs that I have that are or one day will be breeders I consider them my babies. Again I love them so much. I know I could never get rid of them.
Even though I have plans on breeding them I still consider them my pets…I am stunned every time I look at them…Before my day can start I rush into the snake room either to clean or merely stare that them. They are all so gorgeous!

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:bow::bow:

Also what I like to hear. You fell in love not got bored..

10pts

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No that is keeping them. Breeding is far more than that. Its being able to tell when and if there is medically something wrong that might endanger the animals involved. Its being able to not only provided for the breeders but the baby's which 99.995% of all new keepers have a hard time with to start with. There is far more than most people understand. Or even I understood when I got started I spent 2 years researching with some of the top breeders and still feel unprepared.

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Shouldn't you know that when you're keeping them as well?

I agree, someone shouldn't just jump in and start breeding. But that is any business. I'm not trying to disagree with you, because this thread wasn't even started for this reason, but it had to be expected.

This thought is cut short due to work.

But, like I was saying, a lot of people here probably love their animals and want to do so much more with them. Most people I know that have BPs don't even know what a morph is, much less want to breed them.

I keep a ball python with no intention of breeding him. However, that was not always the case. My perspectives have changed as I gained more reptile keeping experience and understanding of the reptile industry.

I realize that I am a HOBBY reptile keeper....I am not a business/commercial breeder.

Some hobby keepers seem to have a problem understanding the difference between the two and get wrapped up in keeping and breeding their reptiles like a commercial breeder.

The line separating the practices of hobby level reptile keepers and commercial level breeder seems to have faded away in some aspects and in my opinion that the lack of differentiation between the hobby and business is hurting the reptile community.

I agree with the original Post, and alot of the ones that followed it.

I think another problem is the draw, Just human nature, to go bigger and bigger, If we didnt have the desire to be like birds and fly, we would have never invented the airplain, Same applies to everything.

I Love my snake, Hes my pet, Maybe one day id love to breed, I love genetics, Its just really interesting to me, But i understand the flip sides, For me there are more set-backs then things that push me foward. A few are health problems with babies, could i cull? Would my snakes sell? Would I have the time and energy to feed all the babies, clean the water, tanks ext? And my big one is would anyone buy from me? (more of a age thing). Those in itself tell me to wait.

Also Would i loose the interest in it as a pet? I see many large breeders of any animals, Once you get to the level of not being able to name every animal, the pet quality is lost and they are just a monitary value, Not a sentimental. And animals should never be viewed as cash.

Forums play there part to in encouraging this, Alot of i just did this, or are getting this, but also you cant forget about parroting, Someone reads alot, And answers alot of posts, with id assume good information, but not something they have learned themselves, giving them the sense of knowing many things they have not tried themselves. They may feel higher and more knowlegable because of this. Yes maybe in terms of context and knowlege in general, but not experience, and it does give a false sense of readyness.

Anyway, For the next few yeas, my guy stays a pet, and probably will never touch a female. If i do breed, it will be because i want to and am ready,I am willing to do it with care, instead of as money and everything is set up.

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So...pet owners unite! Have you hugged your pet snake today?!

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I would but he hugged 2 adult mice a 2 days ago, Givin him some space:weirdface:D

Anyway, good thread,
Ben

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Inadequacy?? Why would not having indulged in every aspect make one feel inadequate. That is what I am trying to understand where contentment lies and why being content has gone (for so many new keepers)from the idea of years of doing it right to "if I'm not breeding" so there for I have yet to truly enjoy Ball pythons.

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my 'inadequacy' comment stemmed from comments like this:

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Originally Posted by WellyBelly

Having a ball python is like having a really nice car. And breeding your ball is like driving that car. Sure it looks great in the garage, but you dont know how to drive it until its on the road. Sure you own a ball python, but you are not the entire keeper until you understand all aspects of the species including breeding.And the best way to learn is research then personal trial and error.

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and not to pick on WB - this is a common sort of comment you see all around in various hobbies. It's human nature :D

but again, I am not breeding. peer pressure exists though - it's out there and on hobbyist forums we're soaking in it. it's not good, nor bad - it just is a factor that people respond to differently.

as for reasons to breed though - you'll find as many different reasons as there are participants.

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Originally Posted by Skoalbasher

Shouldn't you know that when you're keeping them as well?

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Yes you should! My point exactly how many new keepers could tell the difference in an RI and a nasal scale causing a "wheeze" when the animal breaths.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

There thank you so you feel like for you it's seeing many people on here that cause you to want a little piece of that pie. Ok now we're getting somewhere.

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But I don't like pie; I like cake. =) Seriously, the breeding pie is just something I'm not interested in, kinda like team sports, keeping spiders and American Idol. Just not for me.

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

my 'inadequacy' comment stemmed from comments like this:



and not to pick on WB - this is a common sort of comment you see all around in various hobbies. It's human nature :D

but again, I am not breeding. peer pressure exists though - it's out there and on hobbyist forums we're soaking in it. it's not good, nor bad - it just is a factor that people respond to differently.

as for reasons to breed though - you'll find as many different reasons as there are participants.

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:gj: Agreed. I also feel that the wealth of info has lead to an increase in people trying their hand at this. Which is great it helps further the hobby in my mind.

My concern is the rushed manner in which some people focus on breeding without (what seems to me) first enjoying the animal for being itself.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

:My concern is the rushed manner in which some people focus on breeding without (what seems to me) first enjoying the animal for being itself.

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Ok not concern..but rather it saddens me to see

you are the "entire keeper" when you can provide a single bp with everything it needs to live a happy, healthy life and love to do so. breeding them is a bonus but not necessary. if you dont love them you shouldnt breed them whether you have one or one hundred pairs. i think new keepers who breed too soon may be excited but not in love. its exciting to think of all the future breeding possibilities but to get there it takes more effort than expected and to get there youll find out that you have to be in love.(or crazy...)

My first bp was sort of an impulse buy in the fact that it happened within a course of a weekend.

Friday I decided I wanted one, saturday i researched snakes and husbandry, and sunday I bought my first bp.

I like many others was hooked; not on breeding, but rather owning more. Reptiles were very new to me and I just became completely absorbed with the vast amounts of information to take in. The genetics, colors, patterns, the prospect of creating your own combo morph, watching the snakes grow; it all became very rewarding and one of my few passions.

Did I always know I wanted to breed?

Not from the get go but soon after I knew it was something I had to try at least once. So I picked up VPIs book and I continued my quest for knowledge on bps.

While I will have some girls ready for breeding next year I'm still not sure if I'm going to. I still want to make sure that I'm financially ready for the expenses associated with breeding. Along with the time commitment it will take to make sure eggs, hatchlings, etc. are taken care of properly.

I'm in no rush to breed yet at the same time I can't wait for the first pastel I ever see pip out of an egg. I've waited 4 years to breed and I just want to make sure that when I decide to do it that its done the right way.

i bought Lennie out of a long time love for reptiles in general, specifically snakes. although my roommates don't understand why i would spend so much money on an animal that sits under a log all day, i love it. my goal isn't to get to the point where i would breed balls, but to get to a point where i have the experience to own more exotic and 'advanced' species (by advanced, i mean snakes that are comparatively harder to keep) like an emerald tree boa:D. after having lennie for a little while, i realize that while i had a good idea what i was getting myself into, it is still much harder and time intensive than i thought. that just makes the purchase of that tree boa so much more exciting- i'm really looking forward to it!

What an excellent topic Ed! My thoughts....

For me it's about lines we make and want to cross (sometimes far too quickly). It's about comments like "my snake is just an normal" like a member has to feel sorry they have a lovely pet snake that happens to be exactly and perfectly perfect as it is!

It's about breeders that do share wonderful morphs and of course we all get excited but the reality is their hours of chipping snake crap off tubs. None of us want to read posts about exactly how many pounds of urates Kara has moved this year but that is the reality and it isn't all that exciting. It is in fact boring to clean snake poop but you do it as a part of the responsible care of the snake.....one snake or 1,000 snakes....normal or morph.

Lines are in the end things that seperate a group of people. They do sometimes encourage people to cross a line too fast in order to be "in" a part of that group they perceive as more valued or more interesting. In the end though, your 1 pet snake or NERD's 1,000's of snakes, your lovely normal or Kev's lastest blow your mind morph.....it's a ball python. Enjoy it for that, enjoy the people here who love this type of snake, don't give a spit for lines anyone else draws, draw your own.

Okay who wants to come help me clean up some urates! :D