Rat sizes

I'm trying to get into rats for breeding and was wondering about their size when they are ready to breed. I did read about females being no younger than 4 to 5 months and no later than 9 months for their first breeding, but since it's been awhile since I've had rats as pets I wasn't sure about how big they are at 4 to 5 months.
I see at Petco the tanks filled with small, medium, and large rats but the employees really couldn't tell me their age. Another reason why I won't buy them from there. lol

So if anyone could help me out that would be great.

Thanks!

April

My advice get some younger females (small size) and raise them up to proper breeding size (250 grams).

If you get larger individuals they might already be too old to breed.

Thanks! I am hoping to find a breeder in my area that is willing to part with some young rats to start up with. So far no go, but I'll keep looking. I already have tubs ready using frankykeno's post "New Rat Bin". Now I just need the cute little rats to fill them with. :)

Thanks again for the advice.

April, if you give us a vague idea of your location (or PM it to me if you prefer) there may well be a member here that has a rat colony that would get you started off right building your own.

If you do go through a pet store you want to buy young rats that are not long weaned. Keep the male away from the females until the females weight about 250 grams then let the games begin. Rats don't do well by themselves so you may want to get two males to keep each other company. If you purchase to unrelated males, then you've just given yourself a nicer genetic diversity in your rat colony. :)

Buying a healthy young rat is like checking out a puppy or kitten. Bright eyes clear of any discharge, clean ears, dry butt, good fur without scabby skin under it, good body weight - that sort of thing. With rats also check the pads of their feet and their tail for sores. You want want to make sure they are not sneezy, wheezy rats. Temperment is a concern because handling/working around big nasty rats isn't much fun and temperment in rats tends to be somewhat genetic. A young rat might be nervous of handling but should not aggressively bite at you.

To build a good feeder/breeder colony it's best to start out with good foundation stock. :)

If you are having problems sorting out sizes and need a picture of a young weaned rat of a certain size in my hands, just let me know.

Thanks so much for all the advice. :)

I live in Kansas City, MO. I thought I had a connection for some rats but the guy never did get back to me, so the search is on again. lol

Now I understand I should get not long weaned rats. Now is that for both the males and females? You mentioned the females needing to be a certain weight but do the males need to be a certain weight too?

And if I did buy them from a pet store (not a big chain store) and got say two females and then one male, then bought the other male from a different store would the two males get along ok? Just figured that would be a good way to make sure the males are not related.

I'm just trying to start out small for now and see how it goes. So I don't need too many females. At least not just yet. :)

Thanks again for all the advice!

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Originally Posted by SilverWolf

I live in Kansas City, MO. I thought I had a connection for some rats but the guy never did get back to me, so the search is on again. lol

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Hopefully if any of our members live near you and have a rat colony, they might chime in here or PM you. :)

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Now I understand I should get not long weaned rats. Now is that for both the males and females? You mentioned the females needing to be a certain weight but do the males need to be a certain weight too?

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Females should be about 250 grams which is normally around 4 months of age but go by weight and good healthy condition with the females. Males can breed as early as 5 or 6 weeks but likely do better when they aren't so tiny with a huge big female. I often put my virgin male stud rats in with a couple of experienced breeder females for their first run through the breeder tubs (the girls show him what's what and don't run off or nip when he gets "friendly" LOL).

Males or females, the reason I like to get them freshly weaned is to do with handtaming. They might not be pets but in a smaller colony you are likely to be hands on with them a lot. A big male rat can easily hit 500 or 600 grams or more. You do not want that much rat with their razor sharp teeth seeing you as anything but the Great Goddess of the Treat Bowl. :)

Even in my own colony, when I pick a rat for a future breeder I will start handtaming it even while it's still nursing on mom. Just a bit of handling every day or so. By the time it moves to the female only bin for maturing, it knows my scent. A couple of my old retired breeder females live in that tub and help further socialize my up and coming females. The males do the same in their male breeder tub when I'm bringing up a new male to replace an old one or freshen the male group.

Btw, even though my breeders aren't strictly pets, they do get names.

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And if I did buy them from a pet store (not a big chain store) and got say two females and then one male, then bought the other male from a different store would the two males get along ok? Just figured that would be a good way to make sure the males are not related.

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One of my tricks when I was first buying me rats from pet stores for future breeders was to go in one week, buy two very nice females. Wait a week or two or until they had restocked their rats, then go back and buy a nice male. Then go to another pet store and grab another nice male of about the same size.

This way I have two unrelated males and the male from the first pet store, being from a new shipment, is likely not the sibling of the first two girls. :) Even with feeder breeding you want good strong genetics with as little inbreeding as possible. In a huge rat colony you have tons of combo's but in our small home colonies you can quickly inbreed way too much.

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I'm just trying to start out small for now and see how it goes. So I don't need too many females. At least not just yet. :)

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I started out small and I liked it. It got me used to dealing with the rats and it took some of the buying snake food weekly bill away. Eventually we became totally self-supporting for our feeder needs.

Here's a sticky I did a long while back. It's about starting a small colony when you don't have a ton of space. There's also a lot of other wonderful stickies in the Feeder section if you haven't checked them out yet.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=39864

Btw, that white shelving unit you see pictured - I've had that in daily use for almost 3 years now and it's just as sturdy as the day I bought it at WalMart. Not bad for a $17.00 plastic kitchen shelving unit that didn't even need tools to assemble! :D

I love this site. Such great help from great members! :) Thank you so much!

Well, I went to this local mom and pop pet store today, didn't even know it was that close to me. But they had some really cute females that are about a month old so I picked up two. I tried taking some pictures of them real quick but the lighting wasn't the greatest in the room and the flash didn't help but make them look washed out. But they are a cream/light tan. Not sure what color it's called exactly. One is larger than the other but they are from the same litter. They both bonded with me right away. The big one even fell asleep in my hand.

Now I just need to find a couple of good males. I'll try your trick and go back in a week or two and see what they have. My bf also told me about another place not too far away that might have what I want. I'm not used to this area of town so I didn't know all the good places.

Now they just need names. Oh, and here are a couple pictures I got.
The bigger female
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ys517/rat1.jpg
Smaller female
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ys517/rat2.jpg
Both for size comparison.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ys517/rats.jpg

Well the boyfriend surprised me today with two blue males for my easter presents. Not sure if I'll use them for breeding or not. If anyone has any ideas if they would be ok for breeding or not please chime in. He's already named the solid male Templeton so just need a name for the other male and the two girls still.

Here is a picture of the boys.

Thanks!

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...atbrothers.jpg

oh and by the way...funny that the blue males are in the purple tub and the girls are in the blue one. :D

Oh very nice looking rats! They look lovely and healthy. The females are Beige Hoodeds. Well the one is - the other is sort of a Hooded but not really but not a Husky either...just a mismarked sort of Hooded I guess you'd say. The males are a Blue Hooded and a Blue Self (if he's all Blue without any white belly or anything).

Blue is a recessive gene so their offspring will not be Blues but will carry the gene for Blue (unless one of your females is by chance carries a recessive Blue gene but not likely). Blues are often a bit inbred for the pet trade so do just watch those males for illness. They do look nice though but I've had Blues die suddenly on me for no apparent reason. Not all Blues do that but it can be an issue with this popular pet rat color.

Let the girls get up to around 250 grams and you'll be set to make some nice feeders. :)

The funny mismarked hooded female looks like an amber to me ;) She if she throws any agouti's, and I would bet she is. :gj:

The boys look like an english blue, not to be confused with russian blue.

Thanks for the info on their colors. I was kinda wondering. I'll keep an eye on the males and hopefully they'll stay healthy and happy. Would you guys recommend using them as breeders or just keep them as pets? And if I do use them to breed with the girls should I just use the one or both? I mean would one be less likely to cause genetic problems than the other?

By the way, looked at the solid male rat and he has no white on him, so I guess he would be a self.

Not sure on the mismarked female, I'll try and get better pictures of her. Any ideas on getting decent pictures of fast moving rats? lol

Also, I have them in tubs one on top of the other. Should I keep them in separate rooms? Either for QT or so the males don't go nuts smelling females?

Thanks!

I've always had my males in the bachelor tub right next to all of the girls. I've also never had any males really fight. The most quarrels come from the females playing hard to get.

But yes! Quarantine is essential for rats just as much as snakes. Any little creepy crawlies, germs and viruses are easy to transmit just from short distances, and some germs can even take a short journey in our sinuses to find their way to other rats in different rooms.

I would wait till the males are bigger to think about breeding. English blue rats from pet stores are notorious for being sickly, and having low immune systems from poor breeding ethics. I would keep them separate until you know how they deal with the sniffles, any allergies and general over all health. Young rats do not show illness very well, so best to wait. Not only for quarantine but to see how robust they are and if it's what you want to base your future stock on. :gj:

Connie pretty much covered it all (good post Connie!). I also keep my adult males housed near to the females and haven't had any problems. Sexually mature male rats are ALWAYS in breed mode anyways so I doubt it makes a bit of difference to them if they can smell females close by or not. :rofl: