The facination with Tubs???

Alright, I must know. Why is everyone so thrilled with tubs??

I now have a bit of experience with them, as I use them for QT and was keeping my older BP in one for the winter, and I just do NOT see the appeal. The only pluses I see are:
Yes, they do keep the humidity very level most of the time.
Yes, they are lighter and cheaper than tanks or display cages.

Other than that...
They aren't as clear as tanks, so it's harder to see the temp readings.
The dips and curves of the plastic make cleaning a bit harder IMO.
I still have to insulate the back and sides to keep the air temps high enough.
They aren't really ever the right dimensions. You either get too short and too tall but a good length, or way too long and too low with a good width.
It's far easier to latch a tank screen top than a tub lid! For the screen, you just use strong clips, but for the tubs I have to use bungees that are a pain to take off and put on.
The temps can be just as hard to regulate, if not harder, since opening the tub lets out all the heat, but opening a tank doesn't seem to release the heat that fast.

So, maybe I just have really bad luck with them, but I don't see the wonderful qualities everyone talks about...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

Other than that...
They aren't as clear as tanks, so it's harder to see the temp readings.
The dips and curves of the plastic make cleaning a bit harder IMO.
I still have to insulate the back and sides to keep the air temps high enough.
They aren't really ever the right dimensions. You either get too short and too tall but a good length, or way too long and too low with a good width.
It's far easier to latch a tank screen top than a tub lid! For the screen, you just use strong clips, but for the tubs I have to use bungees that are a pain to take off and put on.
The temps can be just as hard to regulate, if not harder, since opening the tub lets out all the heat, but opening a tank doesn't seem to release the heat that fast.

---

Serilite, and Rubbermaid make tons of tubs that are the proper size, and most people who use tubs, use them in a rack system not just simple tubs stacked on top of each other.

Try Iris brand instead of Sterlite or Rubbermaid. They are glass quality clear plastic, have a totally smooth interior, come in a good range of sizes and Iris doesn't constantly change their tub dimensions on you. A lot of rack manufacturers use them for these reasons.

We have a few Iris tubs and will slowly be changing all our snakes over to this brand as we build our own racks. I love my Iris tubs! :)

All i use is the 41qt Sterlite tubs for my ball pythons...
i have mine in a rack so its not hard to latch =] i just push um right back up =]

How many Ball Pythons could you fit in this space using glass enclosures?
http://mysite.verizon.net/david_amon...s/P2150002.JPG

How about ten adults, twelve babies, nine clutches in the incubator, a humidifier, a weight scale, working surface, storage for equipment, and more if I wasn't worried about making it look nice with trim wood and all later! Also it could all be run from one Herpstat pro and two ranco's if I had wanted, but I like more control and back ups so it will have two Herpstat Pros and three rancos.
http://mysite.verizon.net/david_amon...derstairsA.jpg

Oh, I understand their function in a rack when you have tons of snakes... but I don't have the money for a rack and don't really like how short the tubs in them are. I like giving my snakes space to roam with some head room, and 6" is not enough IMO.

If the tub is surrounded on all sides by the rack, there's the insulation... and I did look around at racks online, but they're all outside my ability to buy. And I don't just want to make a wooden one due to warping issues...

And BTW GloryHound: That is one excellent use of space. I envy you for that...
All the room I have is a bit of wall space in our bedroom. That's it. I'm thinking of building a 4 unit display cage for my corns to save room.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

And BTW GloryHound: That is one excellent use of space. I envy you for that...
All the room I have is a bit of wall space in our bedroom. That's it. I'm thinking of building a 4 unit display cage for my corns to save room.

---

Thanks! It still has a ways to go before it is completely done.

This was my first housing project took me 3 days to build! It is what actually got me thinking their has to be a better solution.
http://mysite.verizon.net/david_amon...s/P2030029.JPG
It now dominates our living room and makes our 75 gallon fish tank look small, but it does give us a nice view of our highly visible morphs when they come out to play!

By the way I love AD&D also as long as it is the first edition! I still have all my old first edition books and will not get rid of them until I am dead!

Oooo.. Nice. That's kind of what I want to make for my corns, but mine would have to be four stacked up due to major space constraints. Someone here made a unit like that...and I think I still have the link. :)

Now the only problem is seeing how much the materials would cost... money is a huge problem right now. :(

Get a laminated book case and then you can just modify it with plexiglass and stuff. Just make sure the back panel is a solid panel and not a piece of card board. Mine came to $282.01 without including the T-stats and heating. Mine also started as a 24" multi purpose cabinate for $75 at LOWS. At $75.00 per enclosure which is just slightly smaller than a 40 gallon breeder it was ended up being cheaper than trying to buy and set up four 40 gallon breeder tanks and takes up a lot less room.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

And I don't just want to make a wooden one due to warping issues...

---

If you buy thick enough wood it won't warp. Warping usually happens when people use wood that's too thin to try and make a huge rack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

Oooo.. Nice. That's kind of what I want to make for my corns, but mine would have to be four stacked up due to major space constraints. Someone here made a unit like that...and I think I still have the link. :)

---

Here's one I made for corns; it's only two high, but could easily be made to be 4 high. Was about $100 to make it - wouldn't be that much more to build it higher. Here are plans: http://www.blueappleherps.com/page13/page5/page5.html
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/P1010046.jpg

Ah cool. Thanks, BlueApplePaste. :) Much appreciated. I was thinking of going with 3/4 exterior ply as recommended by the head set tech of my theatre department. :) Those plans will help a lot.

Once I have a 4 cage setup for the corns, I can just stick with tanks for the BPs until they're bigger. Already have one 4x2 display cage for the female, might build a 3x2 for the male once he needs it. :)

My wife asks the same question everytime we go to Target or Walmart. I always have to make a stop on the rubbermaid/sterilite aisle to see whats new or discontinued.............

I can't get enough of them for some reason. I think if you are not making a display cage, then these are the hands down best option for housing small to medium snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

Alright, I must know. Why is everyone so thrilled with tubs??

---

Number one reason is ease of cleaning. It's a plastic tub, so you pull it out, dump it in a bag, spray with chlorhexadine, wipe out, refill. Having extras on-hand also makes the whole process easier, since you only need to move each animal once.

Beyond that, they are cheap and easy to acquire, and just as important, lines of readily available consumer models meet the standard floor-space requirements through each life-cycle stage (hatchling @ 6q, juvenile @ 27q, adult @41q), which saves the small animals stress associated with living in a large enclosure because it's owner was planning ahead for when it eventually becomes a 2500g adult.

You cant bash on tubs, when your looking for a display cage... I dont want 30 fish tanks/display cages in my house :) Id be cleaning full time.

Oh believe me, I'm not bashing just to bash. I have used tubs, and in fact have two in use right now for corn QT, and I just don't see the appeal. To me, tanks work better and display cages are nicer and (usually) lighter than tanks, so that's what I'm looking to use. :)

ive wondered about this too. when it comes to breeding or housing alot of snakes i can understand all the way. but i see alot when someone as about just one snake everyone wants to tell them to stay far away from tanks and only use tubs.

so why tubs with if just one snake and have plenty of space in your home?

I completely agree. When keeping more than 5 snakes, it's practical space wise to have racks with tubs. But when you only have 1-3, those tubs just sit alone without the insulation of the rack and surrounding tubs and, IMO, look ugly. :)

Also, and PLEASE don't be mad at me for this it's just what I see, unless you are a big time breeder getting a good income from your collection, these animals are companions. And, since most people wish to view their companion (even if it's only for an hour late at night) without pulling out a drawer-like tub, they set up tanks or display cages.
True, tanks require a bit more effort to get going and stay where they should... but they do work! It just takes patience and a bit of innovation. :) And, in the end, that effort is worth it when you have a happy snake in an attractive environment.

I started using tubs waaaaay back when I just had two snakes. They fed better, they shed better, the temps were much easier to keep stable, they were easier to clean and no problems at all with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

Also, and PLEASE don't be mad at me for this it's just what I see, unless you are a big time breeder getting a good income from your collection, these animals are companions. And, since most people wish to view their companion (even if it's only for an hour late at night) without pulling out a drawer-like tub, they set up tanks or display cages.
True, tanks require a bit more effort to get going and stay where they should... but they do work! It just takes patience and a bit of innovation. :) And, in the end, that effort is worth it when you have a happy snake in an attractive environment.

---

Nobody's going to be "mad" at you. Like with feeding, everyone has their own ways and that should be respected.

Where the problem comes in I think is the challenge that tanks can present. For a new keeper, that may have gotten the snake on an impulse or been given poor pet store advice (or gawd help a not really healthy well started snake), the additional challenge of trying to get a big glass enclosure dialled in can be a real headache.

We all need to remember that while we are fiddling away with the enclosure, the snake is stuck in there having to deal with less than ideal conditions. I think there can be a compromise if you want to use a more display type glass enclosure (remembering BP's make pretty poor display animals). If you haven't planned ahead and got that tank tweaked and set up properly before you even got the snake, then perhaps put the snake into a tub for now. It's not expensive, it's faster to get stable, etc. Then spend the time messing about with the glass tank until you've learned all the tricks to deal with it. For me that makes sense.

I think building or buying a display rack like this is the best way to go rather than a glass tank.

http://mysite.verizon.net/david_amon...s/P2030029.JPG

It gives the view you want, but is also easier to control temps and humidity. To keep it simple to clean put a piece of vinyl in the bottom and then a sheets of news print for substrate. Change paper as needed clean and disinfect vinyl and rest of the inside of the enclosure once a month.

Oh I agree with both Joanna and Gloryhound. A tub can be a great quarantine enclosure (that's how I use the ones I have) or "for now" enclosure while you get the final one tweaked in properly.
Tubs have their uses. I just think they aren't the best permanent housing unless you have the insulation and support structure of the rack as well. Even then, I don't like how short rack tubs are. :)

And I do intend to have vinyl flooring in my display cages to keep cleaning easier as well as to cover the flexwatt so it doesn't have to heat through wood.

With only a few snakes, tubs are not always the best way to go. Tanks though, are made for fish and NOT reptiles. If you don't want to go with tubs, building a display cage or purchasing a premade one is a much better idea than using a tank.

I have two tanks now that I will end up not using once I purchase pre-made cages for the animals. I find them much more secure, easier to heat and maintain humidity and they look nice (and stack, for when you have a few animals and need the space).

I'll still have my tubs for the ball pythons, though. I have had quite a few that just do better when in tubs than anything that is open or exposed.

I have 6 snakes in various places on my floor in my apartment, 4 Ball Pythons, 1 Sumatran Short Tail female, and 1 8ft female boa. Everyone except for the boa is in 32qt tubs with either bungee cords, suitcase straps, or in the black blood's case, a tied Science Diet leash :) To me, I could care less if they look tacky on my floor. Because honestly, if the snakes are thriving, eating, shedding completely, breeding, defecating/urinating, and doing everything they should be doing on a regular basis, then who cares what the enclosures look like.

I also have the rest of the Ball Pythons in rack systems, either 6qt, 15qt, 32qt or 41qt, and they are doing exactly the same. Eating, thriving, breeding, shedding, defecating/urinating, etc etc. If they weren't, then I would change their housing.

To me, display cages are for animals who are actually out during the day(sleeping or not). Beardies, Uros, Green Tree Pythons/Emerald Tree Boas(any tree boas), corn snakes, active diurnal snakes/lizards/etc that will actually be seen.. I don't want a display cage that has a "pet hide" or a "pet water dish" inside.. There's no point.. Not to mention glass enclosures are awful, they are fragile, heavy, expensive to buy/setup/maintain. Glass is a HORRIBLE insulator, and you'll spend so much money on electricity trying to heat the thing, it's just futile. The glass will always try to be the temperature of the room. It's just how it is..

Plastic now.. Plastic is a great insulator as well as being a fairly decent heat conductor. Plastic tubs are also readily available in about any size you want, they come with lids(GASP!) unlike most tanks, they have tons of floor space and not much height(the good ones) which is easy to heat. When I'm setting up a tub, all I do is get the soldering iron out(a cheapy $3 one ONLY for this purpose) and melt a few holes along the sides. I then set it up with heat and a thermostat depending on what size tub it is, I add newspaper, a waterbowl and a hide, and I find a bungee cord or something similar to hold the middle of the lid down. Put the thermometer probe under the hide and you're good to go. Let it heat up for 15 minutes or so and that's it. Add snake. No tweaking, no buying $200 worth of equipment to actually get temps and humidity where they should be, no covering the sides to make the snake feel less exposed, no soppy substrate to raise humidity which can cause belly rot and just a sesspool of bacteria if not completely cleaned out each and every time the snake eliminates.

For me, it takes about an hour or 2 to clean over 40 tubs, even Sonja the boa's big VE-175 tub. If I had to clean that many tanks, I would be cleaning for more hours than I have in the day. It's just not feasible for someone who wants to have a life, or a job :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I have 6 snakes in various places on my floor in my apartment, 4 Ball Pythons, 1 Sumatran Short Tail female, and 1 8ft female boa. Everyone except for the boa is in 32qt tubs with either bungee cords, suitcase straps, or in the black blood's case, a tied Science Diet leash :) To me, I could care less if they look tacky on my floor. Because honestly, if the snakes are thriving, eating, shedding completely, breeding, defecating/urinating, and doing everything they should be doing on a regular basis, then who cares what the enclosures look like.

I also have the rest of the Ball Pythons in rack systems, either 6qt, 15qt, 32qt or 41qt, and they are doing exactly the same. Eating, thriving, breeding, shedding, defecating/urinating, etc etc. If they weren't, then I would change their housing.

To me, display cages are for animals who are actually out during the day(sleeping or not). Beardies, Uros, Green Tree Pythons/Emerald Tree Boas(any tree boas), corn snakes, active diurnal snakes/lizards/etc that will actually be seen.. I don't want a display cage that has a "pet hide" or a "pet water dish" inside.. There's no point.. Not to mention glass enclosures are awful, they are fragile, heavy, expensive to buy/setup/maintain. Glass is a HORRIBLE insulator, and you'll spend so much money on electricity trying to heat the thing, it's just futile. The glass will always try to be the temperature of the room. It's just how it is..

Plastic now.. Plastic is a great insulator as well as being a fairly decent heat conductor. Plastic tubs are also readily available in about any size you want, they come with lids(GASP!) unlike most tanks, they have tons of floor space and not much height(the good ones) which is easy to heat. When I'm setting up a tub, all I do is get the soldering iron out(a cheapy $3 one ONLY for this purpose) and melt a few holes along the sides. I then set it up with heat and a thermostat depending on what size tub it is, I add newspaper, a waterbowl and a hide, and I find a bungee cord or something similar to hold the middle of the lid down. Put the thermometer probe under the hide and you're good to go. Let it heat up for 15 minutes or so and that's it. Add snake. No tweaking, no buying $200 worth of equipment to actually get temps and humidity where they should be, no covering the sides to make the snake feel less exposed, no soppy substrate to raise humidity which can cause belly rot and just a sesspool of bacteria if not completely cleaned out each and every time the snake eliminates.

For me, it takes about an hour or 2 to clean over 40 tubs, even Sonja the boa's big VE-175 tub. If I had to clean that many tanks, I would be cleaning for more hours than I have in the day. It's just not feasible for someone who wants to have a life, or a job :)

---

Excellent post! Couldn't agree more on every point you made!

About a month ago I switched my BP from a tank to a tub. I used to wonder the same thing about tubs, since they're so ugly and tanks really showcase the animal. However, all I was showcasing was a snake stuffed into a hide, like SatanicIntention said. Plus, I was using heat lamps which were making her miserable. She used to get eye dents all the time and never came out to explore, even at night on feeding day. Now she is much happier and healthier with the tub. For me, I can't afford a nice custom display tank, so tubs are the best and healthiest option for my snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Entropy

I started using tubs waaaaay back when I just had two snakes. They fed better, they shed better, the temps were much easier to keep stable, they were easier to clean and no problems at all with them.

---

I second that. I had BP's in display tanks and BP's in tubs. The tubs allowed me to keep husbandry requirements on the button, whereas with the display tanks there was way too much variation. I have IRIS tubs so they are very transparent, and they have no grooves in the bottom which makes cleaning very easy. You can get a 4 slot for $240 from Rich at Reptile basics shipped, that's $60 per enclosure. The tubs from Rich have a little peg you put in to be sure 100% they are closed, I can't tell you how long I fiddled with clamps on display tanks.

Not to mention, my BP's in the display tanks would try and climb up the sides, overextend, and then fall over with a thud. Doesn't sound bad, but they would do that a couple hundred times a night. I'm glad I learned all I did from tanks, but I'm tubs 100%

JonV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argentra

I like giving my snakes space to roam with some head room, and 6" is not enough IMO.

---

The question that I have is do the snakes want the head space and space to roam? Mine seem to love to just hide in the corner, under a hide box, or under the liners. I beleive that they love the tubs, becasue they are tight and dark. IMO. :cool:

Well, it's like I've said many times: Every snake is different.
My pet keeping luck always gives me the oddball animals. You know, the ones that defy the 'normal' ways of their species. As such, both my BPs love to roam up a bit as well as along the floor. Also, my female normal was in a tub for about 2-3 months and absolutely hated it. She wouldn't cruise and she wouldn't eat. I recently moved her back into her tank and she's a happy girl again.
The way I see it, you have to do whatever works for your particular snake. Often, when a newbie's snake isn't doing well in a tub, they think they're doing something wrong when it may just be that the snake doesn't like their home. I like to make it clear to others, especially first time snake owners, that they have multiple choices when it comes to housing.

As for the rack thing... RBI is great but I can't afford $200+ for a 4 tub rack where the tubs aren't the height I like anyway. I have two of my corns in 26x15x10 tubs now and just don't like them...alone or in a rack.
In fact, I dislike stand alone tubs so much I just went out and spent $98($100 was all I could spend) on the materials for 4 stacking 30x16x12 display cages for my corn snakes. I'll be sure to take pictures of the construction and finished products. :)

I switched to tubs back when I had one snake and I never looked back. Easier to clean - FAR easier to clean, a snake that fasted for 8 months started to feed within 2 weeks (kicked myself for not changing sooner), and visibly relaxed in a tub.

If I want to look at my snakes, I take them out - I know that they like the burrow effect of a lower ceiling enclosure, which makes tubs the perfect enclosure, IMHO.

I've also taken in several ball pythons that were surrendered to my local pet store or through Craigslist that were reportedly not eating for their previous owners and were all kept in glass enclosures that were too big for them. Within 2 weeks of being set up in tubs have eaten for me each week with no fasting.

I have no trouble keeping proper temps (I have 11 free standing tubs as well as a rack for the others), and I keep my apartment pretty cool year round.

It cost me far more money modifying the tank to keep temps and humidity correct than it ever has for a tub. My snakes are thriving, eating, defecating, breeding - they're happy so I'm happy! :D

I figured that I would chime in. I had kept my snakes in glass tanks for years, before we built our rack. I had my adult female in a 40-g low long breeder tank, with a screen lid.. and my others were in 30g and 20g tanks.. I also used a 10g tank for a time. But the big thing is, that my room was heated around them. I could never let my snake room get below the lowest temperature that I wanted for the snakes in their tanks. As long as this rule was kept, I guess that things would be fine. Sure, this was no big deal, as it still holds true for my tubbed snakes now. But.. I always had to wrap saran wrap over their screen lids for humidity retention, as the heating element I used (space heater) made the room Uber Dry. (danged thing still does! But it's just in our bedroom, with no snakes, and just gives me horrific bloody noses overnight if I forget to fill the humidifier..) So the animals being harmed are just me and my husband; nothing important ;)
Now, I use a rack; homemade out of melamine, with 41-quart tubs (smaller ones in the top shelf that hold a juvi and small adult male.) I have a gas fireplace in their room, which keeps the temps stable outside if for some reason we turn down the central heat of the house. It dries out the air negligibly, so if I had tanks, it'd be a rip to keep the humidity up especially when I jack it up in shed times. The tubs retain it very well..
But the biggest draw for them, to me, is the ease of lifting for cleaning. Granted, I am not a lightweight; I have a farm-girl giant-calves body. But lifting is not my thing. Lifting tanks to completely sanitize them would kill my back. Lifting tubs is simple.
Now, I am not saying that something is right for me because it is easy; that would be omitting out the health of the animal contained within. I like the tubs because of their opaque nature; the snakes don't need to be gawked at by my cat walking around all day :) I do have my BCI living in a display-type setup with glass walls and a sliding front door; it is a rip to clean!
I think that the main thing is to do what works for you, consistently and with right-n results for temperature, humidity, and space. I won't slam anyone for using tanks, or homemade display showcases, as long as the animal is not being overstressed by passers-by and glass tappers (this could happen in tubs anyway..)

There are many different ways to house your snake. Some people like stackable front entrance enclosures and others like the racks. If you have enough room i would say stacks bc there is more room and you can just look through the front and see everything thats going on in a glance. Racks are a better way to go if you have a ton of snakes and as well not a lot of room. You can go from constructing your own to purchasing online. Its just a matter of time you want to put into a project and what your price range is. Racks can range from 200 on up depending what the size it. With stacks you can use some and then always just keep buying stackable as you purchase or produce more reptiles. I like racks or my hatchlings and then I keep all my breeders in 3*2*2, 4*2*2, on up to 8*2*2. That is what I have found works the best. Its just all in the eye of the beholder. Im with you i like keeping my adults in enclosures rather then tubs.

CB-70 tub is PERFECT! for BPs. Fyi, they like less space, so they feel "sheltered" so I prefer to house my BPs especially in racks. Sometimes people have grand ideas about making a palace for a ball python, but they would rather something much smaller I promise.

Glass or plastic baby!

I'll take glass, thanks...=D

(Note: photo is from our apartment and before we had Lourdes in situ, but it gives you an idea of how our display cages are organized.)
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...jgray/cage.jpg

....:tongue2:

WOW! Those are beautiful display cages! What color stain is that? I want some for the cages I'm building...

Amen to glass! Just takes a bit more work and looks a lot nicer! :D

FOr all you tub folks...what UTH pad do you use?
I think the Cobra is the only one that says it can be used with plastic...but it gets way too hot.
I suppose that is where a rheoastat comes into play, but then i worry if the rheo fails...
Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cam

FOr all you tub folks...what UTH pad do you use?
I think the Cobra is the only one that says it can be used with plastic...but it gets way too hot.
I suppose that is where a rheoastat comes into play, but then i worry if the rheo fails...
Thanks.

---

Flex Watt is what we use as I build racks to keep the tubs in. With Flex Watt I can built a 12" X 11" heat mat for around $5. In our display type enclosure we use Zoo Med type UTH's since they are in the cage and thus are required to be water proof.

Get a Thermostat as the rheostat will require daily tweaking if not more! I have rheostats in a drawer that I can use as an emergency back up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gloryhound

Flex Watt is what we use as I build racks to keep the tubs in. With Flex Watt I can built a 12" X 11" heat mat for around $5. In our display type enclosure we use Zoo Med type UTH's since they are in the cage and thus are required to be water proof.

Get a Thermostat as the rheostat will require daily tweaking if not more! I have rheostats in a drawer that I can use as an emergency back up.

---

Great information. Thank you. I was not happy with the rheostat when I tried it, esp here on MN where the temps are fluctuating so much lately...even within the house.
I am going to try to find an IRIS distributor around here....
Thanks.