Big Problem!!!

Always been a lover of snakes, not a fan of the feeding. I got my first bp this Saturday on impluse after a trip to Gamestop one day. I got so attached to it my boyfriend was getting jealous and wanted one of his own. Therefore, Sunday we ended up getting a pastel bp that is really beautiful. Get him home and the first thing that I saw was a few very tiny bubbles around the entry way of his tongue. We also started to noticed that he would start to wheeze and make a sharp and very scary open and closing snaps with his mouth. After researching online it sounded like RI. Called the reptile store relying my concerns. I was told that he was starting to lay in his water dish and that he just needed to "dry out" and in a couple of days he should be fine.

Today, I took both snakes to one of my local vets that used to be the main dr. for the Palm Beach Zoo. He said that a culture must be done and a he is going to start him on shots of antibotics that may or may not work depending on what RI he has. I was also told to separate my bps because even though it might be "closing the door after the cow ran out of the barn" my healthly bp could get the RI too. NOW VERY CONCERNED, I went back to the reptile store and explained what the vet told me. The guy insisted that a small RI is completely normal and I just wasted my money and stressed out my snake with him getting a shot. He also informed me that I could have possibly set up my bp to be stressed enough not to eat from the ordeal. After him getting on the phone to the vet and clashing heads. I came to the resolution that since my vet is getting the results in 5 days for the culture and the reptile shop guarantees my bp should be over it in 7 days, that I would leave my bp there to be healthly again and wait. So heres my questions if anyone can help.

Is RI contagious?

Should my bps be separated?

Is the reptile shop guy correct that this is something that they can get over naturally?

Did I make the right decision in letting the reptile shop house my bp to make sure he's healthy?

Like I said, this is my first time with snakes and any help in getting my babies to be healthy and stay healthly would be apprecaited.

~Shannon

Your snake needs a vet and medical attention. DONT try and just "let him get over it", he will die if he doesnt get the medical attention he needs, and even then he might still not make it. I had a snake in a similar situation, who got the meds and still died, RIs are serious stuff. I dont think they are contagious though, I could be wrong. Still, I would keep the snakes apart just to be safe.

If you have already taken the snake back to the store, and he dies, I would ask for your money back, because if it was a reputable store they would have never sold you a sick snake.

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Is RI contagious?

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Yes, through cross contamination.

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Should my bps be separated?

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Yes, BP should not be house together to start with and each individuals should have been quarantined away from each other (different room)

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Is the reptile shop guy correct that this is something that they can get over naturally?

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No RI do not heal on their own, RI require to be treated with anti-biotics.

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Did I make the right decision in letting the reptile shop house my bp to make sure he's healthy?

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No obviously from the answers that were given by them show that they are not that knowledgeable.

If the BP you just purchased has a RI you should return it to the, it is completely unacceptable that someone would sell a sick animal.

An RI can be contagious. They actually recommend you clean the tank after a ball gets over it as it could catch it again. Quarantine is needed anytime you bring another snake home to protect the others in the house. I do one month minimum after the vet has given them a clean bill of health including poop test. If you don't do the vet I would make it a minimum of 3 months at least. RI is a life threatening infection to snakes, it can and probably will kill them if it goes untreated. We had one that came in with an RI and we had to give it daily injections for 7 days after the vet did the initial for a total of 8 days. She went to her follow up and the vet believes the RI is gone, but now she has extra syliva according to the vet. The vet wants to see her again on the 24th and if the extra syliva is still there he plans to do a culture. Trust your vet and not some syco at a pet store with a high school diploma or worse!

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

Is RI contagious?

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Yes it can be, especially since you housed two snakes in one enclosure. Two snakes can equal double the vet bills as you may well find out. You'll need to be watching your other snake now for signs of an RI there.

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Should my bps be separated?

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One snake = one enclosure, two snakes = two enclosures. They can be housed together, the real question is should they be. I think you likely know that answer by now though.

You should also always quarantine new snakes away from any existing snakes you own for at least 30 days (lots of people go much longer than that though).

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Is the reptile shop guy correct that this is something that they can get over naturally?

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No he's not. We have over 20 snakes, some of them rescues. I have never had an RI in our collection, nor mites, nor ticks. This stuff is NOT "natural" or "just part of keeping snakes". That's just the pet store guy's way of not accepting responsibility for this snake's condition.

If you had years of snakekeeping experience that's one thing, but as a new keeper the only responsible advice anyone should really give you is to follow the treatment plan of an experienced herp vet as far as I'm concerned.

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Did I make the right decision in letting the reptile shop house my bp to make sure he's healthy?

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No, in my opinion, you didn't Shannon. They sold you a snake with an RI (or at least one brewing). They have the nerve to tell you to not treat your snake and argue with your experienced herp vet. Sad to say but my best advice is to contact them and demand a full refund then buy another snake from a much more informed supplier or good breeder. You now have no control over how they are treating this snake, or lack of treatment. You have no control over whether they are quarantining it or much of anything else.

I'd get my money back before any guarantee expires.

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Like I said, this is my first time with snakes and any help in getting my babies to be healthy and stay healthly would be apprecaited.

~Shannon

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This has been a hard start for you Shannon. Unfortunately unless you are buying from the very few top speciality reptile stores out there, pet stores in general sell very poor quality snakes that are often sick, not eating, have mites or intestinal parasites. That's a sad situation and you aren't the first to end up like this.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Yes, through cross contamination.
Yes, BP should not be house together to start with and each individuals should have been quarantined away from each other (different room)
No RI do not heal on their own, RI require to be treated with anti-biotics.

If the BP you just purchased has a RI you should return it to the, it is completely unacceptable that someone would sell a sick animal.

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

An RI can be contagious. Trust your vet and not some syco at a pet store with a high school diploma or worse!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

One snake = one enclosure, two snakes = two enclosures. They can be housed together, the real question is should they be. I think you likely know that answer by now though.

I'd get my money back before any guarantee expires.



This has been a hard start for you Shannon. Unfortunately unless you are buying from the very few top speciality reptile stores out there, pet stores in general sell very poor quality snakes that are often sick, not eating, have mites or intestinal parasites. That's a sad situation and you aren't the first to end up like this.

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Agreed, on all accounts. I hope your luck turns around and you put that poor seller in his place. :gj:

Well right now, I'm stuck because I gave the snake back to the reptile shop to "get over" his RI. If in 7 days he is still syptomatic they did offer to exchange for a different snake. But I hardly think that it makes up for the fact that I would be out $159 for treatment of a sick snake. I'm can just see a confrontation and possibly having to go through the legal system if this gets ugly as it was when he was bashing my vet that has worked with exotic animals for over 20 years. I just feel bad to leave a sick snake in a situation where if I take him its possible he might live vs. dieing.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

Well right now, I'm stuck because I gave the snake back to the reptile shop to "get over" his RI. If in 7 days he is still syptomatic they did offer to exchange for a different snake. But I hardly think that it makes up for the fact that I would be out $159 for treatment of a sick snake. I'm can just see a confrontation and possibly having to go through the legal system if this gets ugly as it was when he was bashing my vet that has worked with exotic animals for over 20 years. I just feel bad to leave a sick snake in a situation where if I take him its possible he might live vs. dieing.

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Hold on here, they have the snake, they are doing his care but you are paying for the vet treatments that they may or may not even do? Perhaps I'm confused?

Is this a chain type store or a privately owned store?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Hold on here, they have the snake, they are doing his care but you are paying for the vet treatments that they may or may not even do? Perhaps I'm confused?

Is this a chain type store or a privately owned store?

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This is what happened. I bought the one snake that was fine the very next day I bought the pastel. Both about 6 months old. I was told I could put both in the same cage and I wouldn't need another cage. I trusted what the reptile guy told me since within two consecutive days I bought two snakes and trusted his knowledge over my own. When I saw the bubbles I called right away and he told me that the snake would be fine in two days and he just needed to "dry out" because he was in his water dish and he developed a "cold." I wanted to make myself at ease so I took him to my vet to get his opinion. The two snakes stayed together for one night, and they stayed in two separate hide boxes from what I uncovered. After I got the news from the vet and he gave the pastel a culture and a shot (that may or maynot be the right medication), I went straight to the store to figure out what the next course of action, compensation, exchange, see if they stand behind their snake. From the feeling I was getting they would exchange the snake but they weren't going to compensate me for the dr.s visit because they deemed it "unnecessary and that its completely common that they get minor RIs and its normal." Dealing with that type of situation and no extra cage to put the pastel, I was stuck between buying another cage incuring about another $100.00 expense and/or figuring out another arrangement. So right now what seems has been agreed by my vet and reptile store is that the reptile store will house the snake for 7 days unmedicated. In 5 days my dr. will have the culture back determining what RI the snake has. At that time, if my snake is still showing symptoms after the 7 days is still up for debate. I really didn't know what to do!!

This sounds really horrible, but if its still symptomatic in 7 days than I feel like it might be in my best interest to ask for a full refund and compensation towards a bigger tank for Esmeralda (the non symptomatic snake), but if not I see this becoming an uphill battle. I'm just feeling really crappy that this poor snake could have had a really good home if it was taken care of properly. And what happens if Esmeralda gets sick because this reptile store sold a sick snake? The place was not a chain and they seemed perfect. The animals look really healthly and their living conditions look perfect. I feel so bad and upset about my snake right now, what should I really do now?

Hi,

Has the vet spoken directly with the store?

I don't see how they can justify selling you a sick animal if that turns out to be the case once the culture is back.

If it is sitting in the conditions it got sick in for 5 days with no treatment it is almost certainly going to be symptomatic at the end of it if it is indeed an RI.

I have no idea on the procedure over there but if the vet said it is sick and the store disagreed and wouldn't refund/replace after only 24 hours I'd be contacting the animal welfare people, the trading standards people and the police if it came to it. :mad:

But until the vets results are in I don't know what would be the best course.


dr del

If they are the reptile experts they are promoting themselves to be, I'm a bit amazed they told you to house them together quite honestly.

Just make very sure they aren't leading you on trying to get to the end of that guarantee (not saying they are, but still it's not unheard of). If there is a time concern for test results, insist on the guarantee being extended or get your money back immediately.

Whatever you do end up doing I'd be quarantining those snakes in seperate rooms until you are absolutely sure everyone's healthy and then keep them housed seperately. You don't need to spend a fortune on a fancy setup. BP's do very well in reasonably priced plastic tub housing. Even if you prefer to do a glass tank down the road, plastic is best for QT as far as being easy to sterlize and easy on the wallet.

Check into the caresheets and threads on appropiate sized enclosures for ball pythons as well. "Getting a larger cage" is not always a good thing, so please check into that.
A pet as a impulse item is not a good thing. It's sad that you trusted someone that SHOULD have given you good advice, but instead chose to give you poor husbandry advice, and seems to not be concerned that they are selling ill animals.
I'd insist on a immediate refund for the purchase price. You will not get a compensation on the vet bill. That was your choice(even if it was the correct choice, unfortunately). Then make sure your first python has a correct enclosure, and then think about getting a second one from a more reliable source with a second enclosure.

Good luck, and welcome to keeping herps.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Has the vet spoken directly with the store?

I don't see how they can justify selling you a sick animal if that turns out to be the case once the culture is back.

If it is sitting in the conditions it got sick in for 5 days with no treatment it is almost certainly going to be symptomatic at the end of it if it is indeed an RI.

I have no idea on the procedure over there but if the vet said it is sick and the store disagreed and wouldn't refund/replace after only 24 hours I'd be contacting the animal welfare people, the trading standards people and the police if it came to it. :mad:

But until the vets results are in I don't know what would be the best course.


dr del

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Yes, I had the guy at the reptile store speak directly to my vet. He proceeded to tell my vet that he basically doesn't know anything and that my vet may only see one snake vs. him who sees them every day. I received a call from the owner of the reptile store asking for my dr.s contact information. I gave him the information and I'm going to call him tomorrow to see why he needed the information as well as his explanation and plans on guarantees with his snakes if its not cured in 7 days. As serious as I'm getting a feeling about RIs I do not think this problem will be rectified nor do I think they can do anything to quick fix the snake. :tears:

I'd love to know the name of this store, etc. Might save someone else a lot of grief.

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Originally Posted by bsd13

I'd love to know the name of this store, etc. Might save someone else a lot of grief.

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Dark Forest Reptiles. And apparently they have a bad reputation with sending live animals since they are a mail order company as well. The only advantage I have is that they are right around the corner from my house.

You do not need to buy a whole separate tank for your other snake. In fact, you'd be better off housing him in a nice low sterilite tub. Depending on the size of your snake, which I'm assuming is small, a 12 qt (yes 12) would fit him very nicely.

You put a heat pad like Desert Heat on one half of the tub, and control the temps with a thermostat or rheostat.

You can buy an accurite thermometer/hygrometer from walmart for 12$, they come with a probe that you can put on the hot side to make sure the temps are always around 90 degrees F.

The unit itself should go onto the cool end, and it will measure the air temps and the humidity.

Hot side: 90
Air (ambient): 83
Humidity: 60%

You can give them 1 hide, and put the water bowl on the cool side. You snake will be warm and very comfortable. When you do this, leave him to adjust for a week, and offer him some food.

This same set up will work very well for a sick snake, so no need to go and buy a cumbersome tank that can be hard to control the temps in.

Having dealt with one or two RI's my self I can tell you that most treatment lasts for at least 10 days and the animal must be reevaluated after that period. If I were you I'd say run very hard and very fast from that pet store and seek out a reputable breeder to purchase you pastel from. You will get a healthy happy snake with none of these issues.