New BP, with an attitude problem!

Ok, so I bought a few new BPs about a month ago and one of them is being very difficult to say the least. She wont eat live or frozen, but strikes at ANYTHING that moves (even me through the glass when I walk past). If I put in a live rat/mouse she repeatedly strikes at it until it is cowering in the corner and covered in blood, but she never attempts to hold onto it or coil around it. The tank is set up like all my other tanks so I dont think that is the issue. I was told she was originally a CBB holdback from a breeder that decided to cut back on normals, but her behavior makes me think she might be an import. Very nice colors and blushing along the back though so the holdback story may have some truth. she wont sit still on my scale long enough to get an accurate reading, but its hovering around the 550g range. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to cover as many possible questions as possible to save time :P Any ideas on what to do?

Just hold it for a while to get him used to being held. Usually when they know you after a while the striking will go down. Also do you just drop the pk/ft in?

Sounds like she has a "comfort" problem....

you never mentioned temps or humidity...

try reading the care sheets on this site, they help a LOT

If her temps and humidity are correct, make sure she is housed ALONE and both her hides are small enough to touch her on all sides, making her feel secure...

then "do not disturb"....for about a week or so.....

offer the prey just at the opening of the hide.....

once she's comfy, she will strike to kill and eat....


Good Luck! :)

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Originally Posted by nathaniel

Just hold it for a while to get him used to being held. Usually when they know you after a while the striking will go down. Also do you just drop the pk/ft in?

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I tried to hold her but I dont like to bleed much and Its literally strike after strike. I've never seen a BP act that way.

Maybe a pair of gloves? I dunno My little retic was a chainsaw the first week but he calmed down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhBalls

Sounds like she has a "comfort" problem....

you never mentioned temps or humidity...

try reading the care sheets on this site, they help a LOT

If her temps and humidity are correct, make sure she is housed ALONE and both her hides are small enough to touch her on all sides, making her feel secure...

then "do not disturb"....for about a week or so.....

offer the prey just at the opening of the hide.....

once she's comfy, she will strike to kill and eat....


Good Luck! :)

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Temps are ~83-89 and I am having a hard time keeping the humidity any higher than 40% due to the furnace constantly running, but switching from newspapers to paper towels seemed to help the humidity hold a little longer. She is alone, 10G tank with hides made from recycled butter tubs. She fits inside, but its definately a tight fit. I thought I was going to have to make a bigger hide for her, but decided to try it anyway. I initially left her alone for a week before trying to feed her, and had no luck. then I waited another week and a half before trying again. I tried a third time about a week later and still no luck. It shows interest but will not do anything to keep the prey once it strikes. Same results with F/T that I dangle with tongs... My spider ball takes mice right from the tongs as soon as I reach in with one. I wish they were all that easy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nathaniel

Maybe a pair of gloves? I dunno My little retic was a chainsaw the first week but he calmed down.

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Lol maybe as a last resort, which may be soon. She is starting to look thin near the tail end. I dont know when the last time she ate was, but she wasnt the most healthy looking snake when I got her. I forgot to mention that mites showed up about a week after I got her which I noticed when I first tried to feed her. I treated her and she hasnt had any since. That could be why she didnt eat fir the first couple weeks but I think its been over a month now...

She's stressed and she's displaying all the behavior to tell you so. Just because your set-ups have worked fine for the others, doesn't mean that SHE'S comfortable in it.

I'd recommend two options for you.

1) change her to a 15 quart tub set-up
2) fill her current enclosure with loosely crumpled newspaper, all the way to the brim. This will give her an additional feeling of security, and she'll feel more secure with additional cover, and the sense of something always touching her. Don't hold her - just let her be. After a week, drop in a live hopper mouse and walk away. Come back and check after 1/2 an hour - the mouse will most likely be gone.

Then start weaning her off the paper by removing a piece of paper every few days.

Ugly - but your priority is to get her settled and feeding for you.

Between the two options, I'd choose the tub - heat and humidity are perfect, and it's smaller and more closely resembling a burrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nathaniel

Just hold it for a while to get him used to being held. Usually when they know you after a while the striking will go down. Also do you just drop the pk/ft in?

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Handling a clearly stressed animal is not going to help the animal but cause even more stress - it's a baby - and you're a predator. He needs to get it settled in its enclosure and feeding before working on handling.

Robin's (rabernet's) advice is perfect. Switching to a 15qt tub will not cost you much at all, and is totaly worth it to get your cranky bp settled and eating.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

She's stressed and she's displaying all the behavior to tell you so. Just because your set-ups have worked fine for the others, doesn't mean that SHE'S comfortable in it.

I'd recommend two options for you.

1) change her to a 15 quart tub set-up
2) fill her current enclosure with loosely crumpled newspaper, all the way to the brim. This will give her an additional feeling of security, and she'll feel more secure with additional cover, and the sense of something always touching her. Don't hold her - just let her be. After a week, drop in a live hopper mouse and walk away. Come back and check after 1/2 an hour - the mouse will most likely be gone.

Then start weaning her off the paper by removing a piece of paper every few days.

Ugly - but your priority is to get her settled and feeding for you.

Between the two options, I'd choose the tub - heat and humidity are perfect, and it's smaller and more closely resembling a burrow.

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I'd go with number 2 thats just me thoe

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Originally Posted by Hotshot

I'd go with number 2 thats just me thoe

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So, you would rather appeal to your own sense of aesthetics rather than provide what's best for the snake? Some good morals right there..

Ball Pythons don't live behind cold glass in Africa, they live in warm, humid, dark burrows and termite mounds. A tub simulates this burrow-like habitat, and makes the snake feel secure and confident rather quickly. Plus, while glass may be a good conductor of heat, it's an awful insulator, so you're wasting so much more electricity heating a big tank than you do heating a plastic tub or enclosure. The glass sides are always going to try to be the same temp as the outside air. So if your room is 65 degrees, then the glass is going to be that temp, regardless of how much heat you put into the tank. I don't think I want my snakes resting on something that cold, for health's sake..

You can always switch to a small plastic tub right now, let the snake settle in and get happy about eating for a few months or a year, and then switch back to the tank if you feel it's necessary(or it's just important to you for some reason..). At that stage, the snake will be bigger and more confident, and might be able to handle the stress that living in a glass box incurs. Just my $0.52(gas prices rose..)

I've used that crumpled up newspaper idea (and it's a winner) in both tubs and tanks. Try it but don't remove it quickly, the whole idea of it is to help your snake feel safe. A snake that feels safe and secure is a snake that is far more likely to eat than not. It's not pretty, and it's not meant to be but it's for the snake, not for a human's sense of what looks nice.

I noticed you mentioned mites. Have you addressed this with this breeder who said she was a CBB? Did the mites come in on her or are they traceable to another source? If there are concerns about her not looking all that healthy and if she did come in with mites, I'd consider a fecal float being done to make sure there's not other health issues affecting her will to eat. Also, are you absolutely sure you've eradicated those mites? Mites are a suspected vector for disease in snakes so aren't something to treat lightly.

I've seen this sort of wild striking with no constriction in some of our snakes (mostly the rescues). Until we completely stopped offering prey, dealt with some tweaks in their living arrangements and allowed them to de-stress, it didn't change. After the adjustments to their housing/husbandry routines and time for the snake to adjust to those changes - the snakes ate and continued to do so from then on.

I don't believe personally that when you are striving to get a snake settled in and eating, that you should even be handling more than for simple cage maintenance. For us, handling comes only after a snake has taken at least 4 to 6 feedings.

I am courious who this breeder is and if you have contacted them about the problem

First, I would like to thank everyone for the advice. I have some of the tubs purchased for the rack that I am hoping to build sometime this month, so I put her in a 15/16qt tub and set part of it on a heating pad. I did put some newspaper in it because it cant hurt :P I will try to feed her in a few days I guess. Its starting to look a little "sucked in" near her cloaca so I really want to get a meal into her. Surprisingly she wasnt agressive today when I moved her, but its probably because she was already in a tight ball when I went into the room.

Now for the mites... She probably had them when I got her, or maybe had eggs on her, but I didnt notice anything when I checked her over. None of my other snakes have any visible mites, and her mites have been gone for a while now (maybe 2+ weeks) so I think its over. She just shed last week and I didnt see anything on the skin if that means anything.

Now about the breeder. I didnt get it from a breeder, I got it from a guy who basically buys huge quantities of various reptiles from both breeders and importers, then resells them at shows across the country. The problem is that I think he reuses his totes and tubs without cleaning them well since his excuse about the mites has always been "snakes get mites when they are taken to shows all the time" which I think is BS (can I say that here??) This isnt the first time I have gotten a troubled snake from him, but for some reason his snakes are always the ones that stick out as the more attractive ones. I actually bought a baby that had a really nice banded pattern from him for $15 because we both agreed that it was probably going to die and I wanted to try to save it because it was a nice looking snake. I have had some help from another friend who is a breeder. It has eaten 2 meals so far, but its not at the point where I can say its gonna live 100%. Im not gonna say his name because I dont like putting people out there when they arent around to defend themselves even if I dont think there is much they could say anyway. Enough rambling... Hopefully I wont be criticized for buying from him, but I feel bad leaving them behind...

I dont know how to post a pic in a thread, but I just uploaded some pics into my member gallery. The two entitled Satan Reincarnated are the snake that I have been talking about in this thread. The other two are my favorites, and also the only ones that eat f/t for me every time :D

Well, good news! I tried feeding her a f/t mouse, small rat, and AFS with no luck, but when I tossed in a live mouse, she took it about 10 min after I pretended to leave the room... Its progress, and thats good. After a couple more mice maybe she will switch to f/t AFS and eventually rats :P