First Feed and Question

Hi There!! Well, I fed Zelda for the first time last night. As a reminder, she was born Sept 11, 2007 and is such a feisty bugger that I haven't touched her since we got her on Feb 28th. With her breeder she was eating live mice and so I was really surprised when she slammed, seriously slammed, a f/t rat fuzzy of 19g. I am glad to be able to wait an additional 2 days of digestion time before the tame-training phase!!!
Anyway, I was wondering if there were any opinions as to whether I ought to up her prey size next week to a 27g rat pup. She was still hunting the area after slamming the fuzzy... I have no idea how much she weighs... She looks rather like a noodle to me, but my eyes are biased from looking at balls!!!
Any advice would be helpful and thanks so much! :sunny:

Hey back!!! I would feed her the same one more time and then slowly up her intake each week. If it's one thing I can say after buying multiple boas off Mike, they are ALL great eaters!!! Let them catch up in time, which she will, and you will have a much healthier situation. Your girl reminds me of Ruby, the SalmonPastel girl in the "prego" thread I have here. She was a mean little sucker for months and then calmed right down and hasn't been a problem at all. Good luck!

Well I'm not at all surprised hon. I don't have a ton of boa experience but what I've seen in the 4 we've had/fostered/snake sat - they pretty much consider anything warm, furry and with a heartbeat as darn good eatin! :D Heck it doesn't even need a heartbeat - warm and fuzzy will do just as well! For us, it's been a real rare thing to get a refusal or any fuss about changing prey types from any of the boa's.

I agree with Jimmi, I'd try the same next feed then gradually bump up. If it helps you any, the female baby boa we are tending for Lynne Whipple was born June 07. She eats one good sized rat pup every 7 days - I'd say a rat pup of about oh say 20 days old or so (not a brand new, just opened it's eyes sized pup). If you need me to I'll happily weigh the pup for you next week as a comparison and get a new girth and weight measurement on Morgaine the boa. We just slowly moved her up to this size. Some weeks she took a couple of rat fuzzies as she grew and moved along in her prey increases.

One thing I've noticed with some of these boa's, they do seem to be more cage protective and more willing to have a go at you when you first approach their home. Once out though, they turn into busy, gotta-check-out-everything snakes. Maybe it's a boa personality thing. We've seen it in 2 of the 4 we've managed so far.

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Hey back!!! I would feed her the same one more time and then slowly up her intake each week. If it's one thing I can say after buying multiple boas off Mike, they are ALL great eaters!!! Let them catch up in time, which she will, and you will have a much healthier situation. Your girl reminds me of Ruby, the SalmonPastel girl in the "prego" thread I have here. She was a mean little sucker for months and then calmed right down and hasn't been a problem at all. Good luck!

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Truth be told, Jimmi, I'm scared to death of this little lady; she was sooo aggressive right out of the bag.... I did ask Mike about her personality before I purchased her and he did say that he had a ton of snakes and can't be handling them everyday but....holy cow she was aggressive. I guess the anticipation of the bites are the worst... I got her because I had read all about their terrific and congenial personality...I sure hope mine chills...
So, I hear you, I will go slowly with the food and feed another fuzzy next week and then maybe a pup; we'll see. Thanks for the positive stories about your snakes...I'm such a weenie!!!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well I'm not at all surprised hon. I don't have a ton of boa experience but what I've seen in the 4 we've had/fostered/snake sat - they pretty much consider anything warm, furry and with a heartbeat as darn good eatin! :D Heck it doesn't even need a heartbeat - warm and fuzzy will do just as well! For us, it's been a real rare thing to get a refusal or any fuss about changing prey types from any of the boa's.

I agree with Jimmi, I'd try the same next feed then gradually bump up. If it helps you any, the female baby boa we are tending for Lynne Whipple was born June 07. She eats one good sized rat pup every 7 days - I'd say a rat pup of about oh say 20 days old or so (not a brand new, just opened it's eyes sized pup). If you need me to I'll happily weigh the pup for you next week as a comparison and get a new girth and weight measurement on Morgaine the boa. We just slowly moved her up to this size. Some weeks she took a couple of rat fuzzies as she grew and moved along in her prey increases.

One thing I've noticed with some of these boa's, they do seem to be more cage protective and more willing to have a go at you when you first approach their home. Once out though, they turn into busy, gotta-check-out-everything snakes. Maybe it's a boa personality thing. We've seen it in 2 of the 4 we've managed so far.

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Well, Jo, it's good to know that Zelda isn't just a crazed maniacal eater!!:O I seriously fear for my fingers and wrists, forearms....! I'll coax her out with a hook this weekend and see if this helps her to not defend her territory. Next time you feed, could you weigh the pup? The one's I have are 27g. I have no idea how much Zelda weighs; Mike said that he doesn't weigh the snakes- it's a ball python thing to weigh all the time! ;) I'm guessing she's about 2 feet long, though she seemed a lot longer when she was striking at me when she came out of the bag! :weirdface: Thanks for your help..... Like I said to Jimmi, I'm such a weenie and all my balls are sooo gentle and even when they're being snotty it's in a gentle way.... oh give me strength!!! :P

No problem, didn't even to have to wait until next feeding since I still have some of that specific litter with their mother. Allowing for normal variance in the litter, most are around the 65-70 gram range. As I said, these are rat pups around 20-25 days of age so quite good sized and well fleshed since they are both nursing off mom and eating dry food now.

You don't want, of course, to jump up that big overnight. Just a gradual increase in either prey size or total volume (you could try a couple of fat young fuzzies) would likely do that snake quite nicely. I'm always one to go slow and careful with increases until I see the snake is handling the change beautifully. :)

Remember though most boa's are known for their very strong hunting instincts and long strike range compared to ball pythons. As laid back as Severus is, I wouldn't mess with him once he smells a rat closeby and little Morgaine will wildly smack at her tub unless you are VERY fast with her rat pup.

I like to feed my young boas an item that leaves a small yet visible lump in their body when fully swallowed. It seems that they have a lot more places to put the food than the shorter, fatter ball pythons. Same goes with my carpet python. I will either feed her one item that is a little larger than her girth, or two smaller items.

I too have noticed the territorial urge around their cages. Both of the babies I have now display it (one is a Columbian, the other a Nic). Gwydion has only ever hissed, and will still do so every once in a great while, most especially when he is in shed. But Viviane the Nic went CRAZY the other night, striking at the sides of the tub, bopping herself over and over again. I was going to try to handle her---her week was up---but I stuck the hook in and she struck at it a few times. I kept the hook in there until she stopped hissing and striking like a crazy thing, then withdrew, closed her up, and walked away. The next night, I put the hook in again. She hissed once. I slid the hook under her, held her on the hook until she started doing the curious boa thing---took her neck out of the S-shape, started looking around---and gently let her crawl onto my hand herself. After that, I held her for about thirty minutes, no problems. Tried the hook on her again tonight, no hissing, though she did S herself up and give it a glare.

This is all behavior that occurs in their enclosures. Though they hiss and strike while in the cage, neither of them have ever struck or hissed while outside of it or in my hands.

Maybe your girl's still hungry and/or stressed. I have a feeling this was Viv's issue. I feel that boas work at a slightly higher intellegence level than BPs... and therefore tend to go through more mood swings. Sometimes, they really just want to be left alone, and they're willing to let you know it. Still, when I DO get them out, it's almost like they give me that look: "I'm only coming out because I want to. It has nothing to do with what you want. I am LETTING you handle me. I'm only coming out because I want to check out that lamp..." It's almost like have a cat, LOL.

Give her time, McKinsey... she'll calm down with gentle patience. I promise! :D

BTW... when Viv was doing her crazy thing, you would've laughed at how high I jumped. She is TINY being a Nic baby, with teeth that could barely be felt, but it still scared the crap out of me. I was sweating and breathing hard over something no bigger around than my index finger :P Gotta love it!

Okey-doke~ Thank you all so very very much for your insights and the sharing of your stories. Here's what I think is going on given all the info that has been shared: Zelda was never held or anything, and then is put into a bag and shipped FedEx to a new place and she was very stressed. I also believe she was very hungry!! I do not believe that the little 19g fuzzy was anything but a teaser meal for her. I did not see any noticeable lump along her noodleness as Diana suggested I ought to see! I am not going to stress her out this weekend by trying to hold her; I think she is still hungry and still uptight and I would prefer she be as settled in and confident in her surroundings as is possible. I fed on Thursday night, so I think I'll wait 5 days (Tuesday night) and feed her a 27g pup since this is much smaller than what Jo is feeding Lynn's boa who is only a bit older than Zelda. As Jimmi has said, I will stick with pups for the foreseeable future to make sure she is good with the larger prey. On Friday I will go very slowly and do as Lynn has suggested and just put the hook in and see what she does; then touch her with it, etc.
So, let me know how this sounds!! Thanks again!!!:D

Sounds like a plan! The fact is, handling and getting your snake used to you is always going to be about what's best for you and the snake so go with your own instincts. There's no rush, you've years with this snake. If you want to handle on a specific day but the snake is not receptive and your gut instinct is not to push it that day, then by all means, wait till another day. I think there's a fine line between letting a snake get the idea it can intimidate you versus knowing when enough is enough and another time would be better for both of you. :)

You could always send her to me and I'll break her in for ya... I love snooty boas! They are so cute like that, haha.

I would not bump her meal size up, but I would bump her actual meals up. Feed her ever 4-5 days for a few times. Let her defecate that all out and THEN bump her size up. This way you won't stress those organs out so much with a big ole meal. I just say this cause I have only had problems with regurg cause of new snakes being on this "maintenance" feed schedule some bigger breeders use. They just can't handle the nice sized normal meal right off the bat. They need to be built up to it.

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

You could always send her to me and I'll break her in for ya... I love snooty boas! They are so cute like that, haha.

I would not bump her meal size up, but I would bump her actual meals up. Feed her ever 4-5 days for a few times. Let her defecate that all out and THEN bump her size up. This way you won't stress those organs out so much with a big ole meal. I just say this cause I have only had problems with regurg cause of new snakes being on this "maintenance" feed schedule some bigger breeders use. They just can't handle the nice sized normal meal right off the bat. They need to be built up to it.

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Hi Jimi~ This is a good idea! I will give her 19g rat fuzzies every 4 days for the next however long it takes for her to clean herself out; she did poo the very first day we got her. Once she poos, I will try her on a rat pup and hold her there. Am I correct in thinking that when she gets bumped up to a pup I return to every 7 days?
Actually, if you lived closer to me, I would bring her over and beg for your help!! How do you handle all of the bites? My natural response will be to jerk away from the source of pain but I don't want to hurt her mouth....:rolleye2:
Zelda is such the problem child and she isn't even doing anything wrong!

Actually, till they are a year old or more, they don't hurt at all. They are all Hiss and Puff. That said, I don't want them hurting their teeth either, so I use those cheap rubber dish gloves that cover half your forearm. I just put them on and grab them up. I reach in AT the head with a gentle push down with my palm and then pick them up with the other hand. Try that out and let me know how it goes.

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Am I correct in thinking that when she gets bumped up to a pup I return to every 7 days?

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Sounds good to me. Whenever she is on a normal meal that leaves a nice lump in her belly, put her on a longer schedule. Eventually, when she hits the medium rat size mark, put her on a 10-14 day schedule.

Well, I'm going to wait to do any sort of handling at all because she's in blue. I thought her eyes looked a little clouded yesterday and today they are definitely going opaque. She's hunting around like she's hungry but I'll wait the 4 days and feed her Monday night... The legend of Zelda continues....!

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I feel that boas work at a slightly higher intellegence level than BPs... and therefore tend to go through more mood swings. Sometimes, they really just want to be left alone, and they're willing to let you know it.
<snip>
"...I'm only coming out because I want to check out that lamp..."

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BUWHAHHAHAHA! God, I love boas...:D

They certainly change as well over their lives...my boa girl used to eat anything, anywhere...now she feels the need to be hidden in the cage foliage before striking at the proffered F/T rat...but then it's velociraptor time (think the scene in Jurassic Park 1 when they lowered the cow in the raptor enclosure). =D

Any updates?

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Any updates?

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I gave her a very small pup; it was 21g. I'm going to wait 5 days and give her another and then stick to that schedule til she poos out. At that point, Jimi, I will ask you what the heck Phase 2 is!!
As for touching this she-devil-- no way!! She's digesting and in blue so I aint going near her yet!! :colbert:
I did pick up a pair of those funny dish washing gloves....haven't seen them since my great aunt used to wear them! :rofl:
Anyway, I'm ready whenever she is which I think is going to be after she feels like she is no longer on a 'maintenance feed-mode' and no longer in blue.
What do you think? Am I rationalizing my weenie-ness???? :oops:

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Originally Posted by starmom

What do you think? Am I rationalizing my weenie-ness???? :oops:

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Yes...lol

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Yes...lol

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Darn. :cool: