I just love 800g females!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...balls1/066.jpg

Dude,

In that pic her butt looks 800! - what size is the male?

Care to share what makes you look at her and go "yup, she's safe to go"? Enquiring minds wanna know.:cool:


dr del

She's got a ghetto booty:gj:

What do I know. But isn't breeding females under 1200 grams frowned upon? Or usually end up with small to no clutches?

And isn't 1500 grams the normal weight for female breeding?


I don't doubt you. Like said above, what makes you think she is ok to breed? I'm actually interested.

Hope I don't sound mean. I'm just going off of what seems to be the norm in breeding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...balls1/066.jpg

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Dude,

In that pic her butt looks 800! - what size is the male?

Care to share what makes you look at her and go "yup, she's safe to go"? Enquiring minds wanna know.:cool:


dr del

---

Shame on you for looking at her butt :8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmartin2347

She's got a ghetto booty:gj:

---

See above comment for yourself :rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2kdime

What do I know. But isn't breeding females under 1200 grams frowned upon? Or usually end up with small to no clutches?

And isn't 1500 grams the normal weight for female breeding?


I don't doubt you. Like said above, what makes you think she is ok to breed? I'm actually interested.

Hope I don't sound mean. I'm just going off of what seems to be the norm in breeding.

---

The Jas man has a secret power over them :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2kdime

What do I know. But isn't breeding females under 1200 grams frowned upon? Or usually end up with small to no clutches?

And isn't 1500 grams the normal weight for female breeding?


I don't doubt you. Like said above, what makes you think she is ok to breed? I'm actually interested.

Hope I don't sound mean. I'm just going off of what seems to be the norm in breeding.

---

Well, She is a proven breeder.. Who said they have to be 1500g? I never said that. They breed when they want to breed..

Joe! Thanks LOL!!

that jasballs is no good with his breeding ways! shame on you! ;)

Quote:

---

What do I know. But isn't breeding females under 1200 grams frowned upon? Or usually end up with small to no clutches?

And isn't 1500 grams the normal weight for female breeding?

---

As a general rule of thumb, yeah... But snakes don't read the rules and they tend to breed whenever they're ready. I've got a couple of females that I'm breeding this year that are between 800-900 grams. I've had them for three years, and I suspect judging by the condition they were in when I got them, that they had been young wild caught gravid imports that were sold after they dropped their eggs. They haven't grown an inch since I've had them, but they are looking nicely plump and healthy and are receptive breeders. I just have to wait to see if they drop any eggs for me.

Would you consider them dwarf ball pythons or just small animals? Thats weird how some stop growing at 800-1000g???

I saw the title and knew it was you!!! Ahhh:rofl::taz:

Congrats getting those little kids going, but be careful because if they were people you can get in trouble for that sort of thing.:8:

Just out of curiosity have you ever had a snake become egg bound?

Just out of curiosity what are the genetics of those two? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

Just out of curiosity have you ever had a snake become egg bound?

---

I have, she was under 1200 grams, but she was also 6 years old. I was discussing with Jas before whether or not she became egg bound because she was small, (I've gotten eggs out of smaller females) or because she started breeding so (relatively) late in life. And I guess I don't know but I tend to lean towards the latter.

see if figured i was going to wake up this morning and people would have just slaughtered you by now.:D congrats:gj: on a another good lock up and like every one else asked. what are they.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

I have, she was under 1200 grams, but she was also 6 years old. I was discussing with Jas before whether or not she became egg bound because she was small, (I've gotten eggs out of smaller females) or because she started breeding so (relatively) late in life. And I guess I don't know but I tend to lean towards the latter.

---

Interesting, how did you fix her? Did you have to drain the egg with a needle or how did you get her to pass the eggs? Also did you lose the clutch and how did they turn out?

Sorry for the questions, but I am relatively unfamiliar with this area:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FL0OD

see if figured i was going to wake up this morning and people would have just slaughtered you by now.:D

---

I would have expected the same. Its refreshing that people around here are being a little more openminded. I remember when I first joined here it seemed that everyone saw things in black and white- that there was only one way to do things. Congrats on the lockup.

I think everyone has to keep in mind that this is not the norm and although this animal is small in weight that it is an adult.

Age to me is a big factor.

I say this because I don't want to see young inexperienced people trying to breed juviniles because Jas did it. Jas has lots of experience and knows what he is doing.

In other words "Dont try this at home kids". I think the title is a little misleading.

I am sure this is not an 07 or 06 800 gram female.

In the future Jas maybe you should give some more info on the snake so as not to give newbies false hope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

As a general rule of thumb, yeah... But snakes don't read the rules and they tend to breed whenever they're ready.

---

Well put. =)

Research and read everything you can get your hands on, listen to experienced breeders, know your animals, be flexible. =) :gj:

Sweet Jas!! Good Luck!!! (not that you'd need it)

Quote:

---

Interesting, how did you fix her? Did you have to drain the egg with a needle or how did you get her to pass the eggs? Also did you lose the clutch and how did they turn out?

---

I palpated the eggs out of her (squeeze gently down towards the vent until you can move them out) once the first one passed the others came easily. There were 4 eggs in total and they were very hard. They had already gone too long and the albumen had solidified so I wouldn't have been able to aspirate anything with a needle. They were also stained dark almost black in color. She's eating and pooping fine, but I'm holding her back from breeding this year.

Mark

John,
Do you think you can bottle me up some of that water out of your tap and ship it to me? How many eggs did she give you last year?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

John,
Do you think you can bottle me up some of that water out of your tap and ship it to me? How many eggs did she give you last year?

---

That Jersey water...I love it, metallic taste and all!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I think everyone has to keep in mind that this is not the norm and although this animal is small in weight that it is an adult.

Age to me is a big factor.

I say this because I don't want to see young inexperienced people trying to breed juviniles because Jas did it. Jas has lots of experience and knows what he is doing.

In other words "Dont try this at home kids". I think the title is a little misleading.

I am sure this is not an 07 or 06 800 gram female.

In the future Jas maybe you should give some more info on the snake so as not to give newbies false hope.

---

I did say she was a proven breeder..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

John,
Do you think you can bottle me up some of that water out of your tap and ship it to me? How many eggs did she give you last year?

---

LOL! Tim she gave me 3 awesome little balls. 1.2.. Two of them are way bigger then she is now and one male:( is going to take after momma..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rapture

Just out of curiosity what are the genetics of those two? :)

---

YB male x with a clear belly female.. :gj:

JAS you are my hero.

Quote:

---

I am sure this is not an 07 or 06 800 gram female.

---

I wouldnt be so sure, lol. jk, jk.

Way to go Jas, good luck with that girl, and keep us posted!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I did say she was a proven breeder..

---

John, it's always exciting to me to see how you think outside the box with regards to these animals, and I know that you often advise members to learn to read their animals.

But for someone new to keeping ball pythons who doesn't have the experience that you do in reading their animals, what do YOU look for to determine if a 800 gram female can safely be bred? I am concerned that some of our more eager members might see this and think that their females will be just fine at a year old and 800 grams - that 800 is the new 1500.

What's so great about this site is that we can help guide newer keepers and at the same time, provide new and exciting information for more experienced members.

It would be really cool when you post these that you give a little more back ground so that we can learn more from you! :D

I agree I'd love to come and study with Jas for one season to see how he rolls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

John, it's always exciting to me to see how you think outside the box with regards to these animals, and I know that you often advise members to learn to read their animals.

But for someone new to keeping ball pythons who doesn't have the experience that you do in reading their animals, what do YOU look for to determine if a 800 gram female can safely be bred? I am concerned that some of our more eager members might see this and think that their females will be just fine at a year old and 800 grams - that 800 is the new 1500.

What's so great about this site is that we can help guide newer keepers and at the same time, provide new and exciting information for more experienced members.

It would be really cool when you post these that you give a little more back ground so that we can learn more from you! :D

---

I admit, I'm not much of a poster.. Meaning I dont wright much with my posts.. Breeding a yearling female at 800g grams would be Very dumb.. So I breed my yearling females at 1000-1200g. I never believed the old 1500 to begin with LOL! But I'm just a poser anyway..

Hi Ralphie!!:P

Yah! But you still didn't answer my question - I'm going to make you write! :P

So - no yearlings at 800 grams - agreed it would be dumb:)

What do you look for from an older female who is smaller than the "norm" to determine for YOU that she's good to go? Body tone? Feeding reliably? Stopping feeding signaling she wants to breed?

I myself have a 5 year old female (Originally an import 3 years ago) that is around 1000g, maybe less. Have had her lock up a few times, hope to see a result. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Yah! But you still didn't answer my question - I'm going to make you write! :P

So - no yearlings at 800 grams - agreed it would be dumb:)

What do you look for from an older female who is smaller than the "norm" to determine for YOU that she's good to go? Body tone? Feeding reliably? Stopping feeding signaling she wants to breed?

---

All about there feeding responce before breeding begins. If she eats Strong for me for a few months strait I know she is going to breed. If she stops feeding I could care less. I know she will eat after she lays.. If a small girl is 3 years old or more she will produce for you year after year.. Again If The SNAKE is happy with her size then you should be happy with her size! Dont try to make her bigger then she wants to be.. And dont be affraid to let her do what she does best!

See! Told you I'd make you write! That's good information to know! I have a smaller '06 female, that I likely will not breed in the '08/09 season, but if she continues to stay small well into her third year, not only will I have your experience to call on, but more experience under my belt to give it a go! I love thinking outside the box! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

See! Told you I'd make you write! That's good information to know! I have a smaller '06 female, that I likely will not breed in the '08/09 season, but if she continues to stay small well into her third year, not only will I have your experience to call on, but more experience under my belt to give it a go! I love thinking outside the box! :D

---

Can you say Box here? LOL! I'm sure other breeders will chime in and say I'm crazy, But thats how I do it.. And it works! No books no youtube vids. Just a 1.1 End of story!!:gj:

I have never heard of a snake being happy at a weight and staying there if they are good eaters. If they are not good feeders and stay small would you not want to move this female out of your breeding program and replace her with a good feeder that gets bigger year after year? I would think that you would not want to produce more animals that are " Happy to stay small ". Maybe I am wrong but I try and keep only good strong feeders for my breeder females so my offspring could have a chance to carry on the same strong feeding response. If a female weighs 800 Grams while breeding what would she weigh after she lays the eggs ??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harold

I have never heard of a snake being happy at a weight and staying there if they are good eaters. If they are not good feeders and stay small would you not want to move this female out of your breeding program and replace her with a good feeder that gets bigger year after year? I would think that you would not want to produce more animals that are " Happy to stay small ". Maybe I am wrong but I try and keep only good strong feeders for my breeder females so my offspring could have a chance to carry on the same strong feeding response.

---

Happy Harry is here!! HoWS JON?? Do what you Guys do.. I'll do what I do.. K? Harry?

And if she is a strong producer for me even though she is small Why would I get rid of her? I see you are all about the $ I'm not.. I'll breed her for the next 20 years Bro!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harold

I have never heard of a snake being happy at a weight and staying there if they are good eaters. If they are not good feeders and stay small would you not want to move this female out of your breeding program and replace her with a good feeder that gets bigger year after year? I would think that you would not want to produce more animals that are " Happy to stay small ". Maybe I am wrong but I try and keep only good strong feeders for my breeder females so my offspring could have a chance to carry on the same strong feeding response. If a female weighs 800 Grams while breeding what would she weigh after she lays the eggs ??

---

I think the point Jas is making is age. Some animals just dont get as big as others, some get way bigger. If you see an animal is staying at a certain wieght after X amount of years, thats probably as big as she is gonna get. Not all BP's are gonna reach 4000 grams.

Now if the snake is a poor eater and isn't growing than that is not a good canidate for breeding.

Thats how I hear it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I think the point Jas is making is age. Some animals just dont get as big as others, some get way bigger. If you see an animal is staying at a certain wieght after X amount of years, thats probably as big as she is gonna get. Not all BP's are gonna reach 4000 grams.

Now if the snake is a poor eater and isn't growing than that is not a good canidate for breeding.

Thats how I hear it.

---

Thats right Raul, If she wasnt ready why would she breed and give me eggs? Must be my poor judgement call?? LOL..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

But I'm just a poser anyway..

Hi Ralphie!!:P

---

Classic!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monk90222

Classic!

---

Shhh He is watching me!:rolleyes:

I was to understand that they should be around 1200 grams. thats what i as told by people on these forums. Not saying you cantdo it earlier but i thought it wasnt safe for the animal. Oh well I was misinformed i guess. Well good luck on the projects and make sure to post lots of pics of those little babies when they hatch. I love baby bp's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I was to understand that they should be around 1200 grams. thats what i as told by people on these forums. Not saying you cantdo it earlier but i thought it wasnt safe for the animal. Oh well I was misinformed i guess. Well good luck on the projects and make sure to post lots of pics of those little babies when they hatch. I love baby bp's

---

Yea, Some people arent caught up with the facts.. It takes years to write a book. Only 5 minutes to pair up some snakes! Books Suck!! LOL..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Yea, Some people arent caught up with the facts.. It takes years to write a book. Only 5 minutes to pair up some snakes! Books Suck!! LOL..

---

lol I hear that i was thinking about trying my hand at breeding this year. My females 1100 grams and growing like a weed lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Yea, Some people arent caught up with the facts.. It takes years to write a book. Only 5 minutes to pair up some snakes! Books Suck!! LOL..

---

On the contrary - I think books, especially Kevin's and the Barker's are good guidelines for those without a lot personal experience to go on. As a new breeder, I know that I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, because I don't have the experience that you do under my belt. In the next few years, with more experience and all the "first" hurdles of my first year breeding behind me, I'll feel more comfortable in being able to better read my animals and maybe breed lighter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

On the contrary - I think books, especially Kevin's and the Barker's are good guidelines for those without a lot personal experience to go on. As a new breeder, I know that I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, because I don't have the experience that you do under my belt. In the next few years, with more experience and all the "first" hurdles of my first year breeding behind me, I'll feel more comfortable in being able to better read my animals and maybe breed lighter.

---

:gj:

:gj::gj::gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

On the contrary - I think books, especially Kevin's and the Barker's are good guidelines for those without a lot personal experience to go on. As a new breeder, I know that I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, because I don't have the experience that you do under my belt. In the next few years, with more experience and all the "first" hurdles of my first year breeding behind me, I'll feel more comfortable in being able to better read my animals and maybe breed lighter.

---

What ever floats your boat!:gj:

Here I go posting my HUMBLE opinion again...

I think that with all the threads on all the forums and all the chapters in all the books that say a female should be __ years old and _____ grams before breeding (usually the third winter and 1500 grams), there shouldn't be much harm in a few threads made by John about breeding smaller animals. Even novices are perfectly capable of gathering information from many sources and weighing the advantages and disadvantages before deciding what to do with their animals.