Eek! 111 degrees??

I have one of those Flukers digital humidity/temp gauges. I had it sitting right on top of a hide in one of my snake's cages, a full 18 inches below the heat light, and when I walked by the cage earlier it was reading 111 degrees! I immiediatly turned the lamp off, but I really find it hard to believe that it was that hot that far below the light. It is only a 75 watt bulb, for goodness sakes. I have no overheating problems when using a red heat bulb of the same wattage in the same cage with the same gauge in the same spot. I was thinking perhaps that because the gauge is black, it absorbs more of the heat and gives an innaccurate reading, given that it is one of the daylight type bulbs. Any thoughts?

Most likely inaccurate. You need to get a temp gun to be really sure.

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Originally Posted by spix14

I have one of those Flukers digital humidity/temp gauges. I had it sitting right on top of a hide in one of my snake's cages, a full 18 inches below the heat light, and when I walked by the cage earlier it was reading 111 degrees! I immiediatly turned the lamp off, but I really find it hard to believe that it was that hot that far below the light. It is only a 75 watt bulb, for goodness sakes. I have no overheating problems when using a red heat bulb of the same wattage in the same cage with the same gauge in the same spot. I was thinking perhaps that because the gauge is black, it absorbs more of the heat and gives an innaccurate reading, given that it is one of the daylight type bulbs. Any thoughts?

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Most keepers around here recommend Acu-rite temp/hygrometer's gotten at Lowes for 12 bucks. Additional to that, a temp gun so you can spot check all around the floor areas of your cage/tank/tub. Hides tend to hold the heat and so maybe that is what it was measuring- I have no idea. Get rid of the Flukers- they are not accurate and you have no way of checking the accuracy without a temp gun and a probe from the Acu-Rite. Anyone can take guesses; your snake needs you to know..... :gj:

111 is not bad if that is the basking spot go outside and point a temp gun at a rock on a hot day with the sun out it will be way more than 110 degs. as long as there is still a cool side than your snake will be fine.

hell my monitors cage has a spot that will hit 140 and he loves to sit under it for short ammount of times but then he will go in his burro and cool off.

Matt, ball pythons don't go bask in the sun - they're inside burrows during the day - so you can't say 111 isn't too hot for an animal that doesn't bask in the sun.

I've actually been planning to go get a few of those Acu-rites for everyone. I had just heard that the Flukers worked fine (on this forum I believe) so I wasn't in a huge rush. Guess I will get off my lazy bum and go to Lowes now.

Where can I find a good temp gun? Are the ones on Pro Exotics any good?

Pro Exotics are a good source :)

i use a 40 watt bulb and that occasionally gets too hot.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Matt, ball pythons don't go bask in the sun - they're inside burrows during the day - so you can't say 111 isn't too hot for an animal that doesn't bask in the sun.

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but i still can not hurt if they have a spot that is nice and cool. right????

good temp if your eating BP for dinner.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

but i still can not hurt if they have a spot that is nice and cool. right????

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So, basically, they have a spot that is nice and cool, and a spot that's way too hot for thermoregulating. Why do you think they get burned on heat rocks? According to the Barkers, their belly is not as sensitive as their dorsal scales to alert them when they are on something too hot. So, 111 degrees is too hot to have in the enclosure and risk a belly burn. To tell someone they shouldn't worry about temps that high is not good advice, IMHO.

I would suggest the PE-2 temp gun from Pro Exotics, I got it and I gotta tell ya the thing is a god send. I check temps about 5 times a day and with the gun... takes about 1 minute out of my day! Hope this helps!

Awesome, I'll probably go with that one. For some reason I thought they were way more expensive.

Yeah, I paid 53.00 with shipping. The best money I've ever spent.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

So, basically, they have a spot that is nice and cool, and a spot that's way too hot for thermoregulating. Why do you think they get burned on heat rocks? According to the Barkers, their belly is not as sensitive as their dorsal scales to alert them when they are on something too hot. So, 111 degrees is too hot to have in the enclosure and risk a belly burn. To tell someone they shouldn't worry about temps that high is not good advice, IMHO.

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the diffenence between a heat rock and a rock that is hot because a light is on it is obvious. the snake will be able to tell the heat is there when it feals it on its back. these snakes do live in holes but have been found durring the day out and about. and in africa the day time temp can get to over 120.
think about how warm 111degs isnt. that is only 12.4 degs warmer than your hands when you hold the snake. not that big of a deal.

Do you have a tstat controlling the heat sources? If not i would suggest it. Also i agree with what everyone said about temp guns. I think they are great:gj:

whats up juddb. havent crossed paths with u in a bit.

they get burned on heat rocks because usually the heat rock is too small for the animal. If provided with a heat rock that will warm the entire animal then you should be fine. I read in an article somewhere that reptiles don't have the nerve endings to be able to feel points of heat, yet respond very well to their whole bodies heating up. And i think they tested it out, and on an appropriate sized heat source of the same temperature that was thought to cause burns, the animals moved before they were burned. So it's not high temps, but too highly concentrated hot spots that are actually the problem. Now if only I could find that article.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

the diffenence between a heat rock and a rock that is hot because a light is on it is obvious. the snake will be able to tell the heat is there when it feals it on its back. these snakes do live in holes but have been found durring the day out and about. and in africa the day time temp can get to over 120.
think about how warm 111degs isnt. that is only 12.4 degs warmer than your hands when you hold the snake. not that big of a deal.

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BPs are nocturnal animals. While you might see one on occasion out and about during the days in africa, they spend most of the day in their burrows, where it is significantly cooler.

Not to mention every breeder or keeper I've ever spoken to would agree that 111 degrees is FAR too warm for a BP. They are not baskers.

It's my snake and his health involved and sorry but I DO think it's a big deal.

verry informative mike.

you are right hotspots from most heatrocks being pieces of crap are usually the problem.
the problem in this thread is that there is a hot spot under a heat lamp. wich i say is normal for heat lamps. and as long as there is a nice cool spot for the snake to thermoregulate all is well.

And no offense or anything, but it will be a cold day in hell before I use a heat rock for any of my snakes, article or no. I'm a better safe than sorry person.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

the diffenence between a heat rock and a rock that is hot because a light is on it is obvious. the snake will be able to tell the heat is there when it feals it on its back. these snakes do live in holes but have been found durring the day out and about. and in africa the day time temp can get to over 120.
think about how warm 111degs isnt. that is only 12.4 degs warmer than your hands when you hold the snake. not that big of a deal.

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Who has seen them out and about during the day? I've never heard this or seen it cited from a reputable source. Can you provide a link?

And I disagree - it is a big deal. Feel free to keep your animals at 111 degrees if you'd like, I imagine you'll be dealing with nuerological problems as well as burns. But telling someone that it's no big deal is not responsible.

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Originally Posted by spix14

BPs are nocturnal animals. While you might see one on occasion out and about during the days in africa, they spend most of the day in their burrows, where it is significantly cooler.

Not to mention every breeder or keeper I've ever spoken to would agree that 111 degrees is FAR too warm for a BP. They are not baskers.

It's my snake and his health involved and sorry but I DO think it's a big deal.

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what is the temp on the cool side of your cage and what are the temps in the hides. i am only speaking from experiance as i used to only use heat lamps. sometimes if you make the spot right under the light 85-90deg the rest of the cage can drop below the normal cool side temp. i recommend getting a uth they work a lot better for heating glass cages. and you dont have the humidity problems as much.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Who has seen them out and about during the day? I've never heard this or seen it cited from a reputable source. Can you provide a link?

And I disagree - it is a big deal. Feel free to keep your animals at 111 degrees if you'd like, I imagine you'll be dealing with nuerological problems as well as burns. But telling someone that it's no big deal is not responsible.

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all my animals are in racks with heat tape and helix controoling them.

i am simply saything that when you use a heat light to heat you cage you will have spots that usually are above the right temp to keep the rest of the cage at the acceptable temps.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

sometimes if you make the spot right under the light 85-90deg the rest of the cage can drop below the normal cool side temp.

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So what you're basically telling me is that I should crank up the warm side temps in an effort to keep the cool side temps appropriate? And then you say I should use a UTH instead...but what would that do for the cool side temps, which by your reckoning I should be cranking up the heat in the cage to raise? :confused:

I don't mean to come across as rude and I know you're just trying to help, but bottom line, I was asking about whether or not the temp gauge was misreading the temp, not whether or not 111 degrees is too hot. I already know the answer to that.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

whats up juddb. havent crossed paths with u in a bit.

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Whats up buddy. Ive been lurking around. How's the collection?

the 111 is proabbly a good reading. when i used to use glass the only thing i found that worked was useing a uth and putting towls over the top of the cage to insulate it. it keeps the temps right where they need to be. just be carefull and whatch the temps

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Originally Posted by spix14

And no offense or anything, but it will be a cold day in hell before I use a heat rock for any of my snakes, article or no. I'm a better safe than sorry person.

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um... I wasn't saying to use a heat rock. I was merely commenting on a previous statement about heating.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

they get burned on heat rocks because usually the heat rock is too small for the animal. If provided with a heat rock that will warm the entire animal then you should be fine.

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My apologies then, I took the above quote to mean that you were supporting their use.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

the 111 is proabbly a good reading. when i used to use glass the only thing i found that worked was useing a uth and putting towls over the top of the cage to insulate it. it keeps the temps right where they need to be. just be carefull and whatch the temps

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Well thanks for the suggestion. It does work well to keep the humidity up, temps aren't as much of a worry given where I live and that fact that I usually keep my house pretty warm.

Robin, although I see what you're saying and I understand it as well, I think Matt's point is kind of that if given ample areas to thermoregulate a snake won't bypass millions of years of trial and error and decide to cook itself. I feel as though the instincts and drive to live in an animal that's been surviving for so long and in so many varied conditions would be a little stronger than that. Think that if a ball is in the mouth of a burrow or under a board or whatever, and the outside temp on the ground is easily 160 or so, then i'm sure near the surface it could be around 110, but the python would be able to retreat deeper once it gets too hot. But in the case of a smaller tub set up or fear of hotspots, I think that simplifying it for our captive sakes is best, especially for those just starting out. Different keepers may over the years come up with different ways of keeping that they may feel are more suited to their animals. Most information we provide is simplified for beginners (so they don't make mistakes and kill their animals) or for our convenience.

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Originally Posted by spix14

My apologies then, I took the above quote to mean that you were supporting their use.

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my fault then. I wasn't advocating heat rocks. I was making a point on hotspots in general, hot rocks were just a convenient example. Spot lights too high wattage and too focused in on an area are also a good example. Thats why monitor keepers use a battery of lights roughly the length of a basking monitor so the animal can heat up uniformly and not burn themselves.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

Robin, although I see what you're saying and I understand it as well, I think Matt's point is kind of that if given ample areas to thermoregulate a snake won't bypass millions of years of trial and error and decide to cook itself. I feel as though the instincts and drive to live in an animal that's been surviving for so long and in so many varied conditions would be a little stronger than that. Think that if a ball is in the mouth of a burrow or under a board or whatever, and the outside temp on the ground is easily 160 or so, then i'm sure near the surface it could be around 110, but the python would be able to retreat deeper once it gets too hot. But in the case of a smaller tub set up or fear of hotspots, I think that simplifying it for our captive sakes is best, especially for those just starting out. Different keepers may over the years come up with different ways of keeping that they may feel are more suited to their animals. Most information we provide is simplified for beginners (so they don't make mistakes and kill their animals) or for our convenience.

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Well said, I guess if you have the years under your belt and you feel comfortable doing it with your animals, then go ahead...me, I'd rather not risk it.

Althouh, years aren't always an indication of expertise... a friend of mine had an uncle that we went to visit that had 20+ years of snake keeping and breeding under his belt, and he knew quite a bit...but he also had an albino monocled cobra that he kept in a glass tank, with a mesh lid, in his living room with no sort of lock on the cage and only a brick on the lid to keep the snake in the cage...and he had a four year old daughter.

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Originally Posted by spix14

Althouh, years aren't always an indication of expertise... a friend of mine had an uncle that we went to visit that had 20+ years of snake keeping and breeding under his belt, and he knew quite a bit...but he also had an albino monocled cobra that he kept in a glass tank, with a mesh lid, in his living room with no sort of lock on the cage and only a brick on the lid to keep the snake in the cage...and he had a four year old daughter.

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your story just goes to show that experience doesn't always exclude stupidity. That's just not at all smart.

Back to the point. I have a Flukers and tested against a Kenmore temp/humidity and an Accurite temp/humidity (20 bucks in Chicagoland) outside of tank. The temps were accurate to within decimals. I found the Accurite to be 4% degree higher than the Flukers in humidity. I have a PE-1 temp gun. Your Flukers may be bad (electronics can be that way) but without a control you wont know. 115 under a light I would think is possible. Hope that helps.

Directly under a light I would say yeah, but a good 18 inches? It's not that strong of a heat bulb.