immaculate birth (Parthenogenesis)

first off, let me say hello, I am new.

A little back story is in need, I have had my ball for 7 years, and have known her since she was a baby 14 years ago. We always thought she was a boy and her previous owner even had her sexed. She has never been kept with another snake, and 5 weeks ago I walked in to see her roosting on 5 eggs. i noticed all of the signs she was gravid but since i was sure she was a male (and kept alone) I didn't pay any attention, I had her out to play 5 days before she popped. Well anyway, 5 weeks later the 2 of the 5 eggs are still healthy and fertilized. Has anyone had any experience with Parthenogenesis? I have 2 happy and healthy baby balls in egg (candle lit them last night and saw a tail move!!!!!!!!!) i built my own incubator on the fly with some failure (the 3 dead eggs) but just wanted to get some opinions on Parthenogenesis and how often it happens in Ball pythons.

That's really cool.. I've only heard of it one other time on this forum (do a search for parthenogenesis and I'm sure it'll pop up)

I can't remember the outcome though..

the lord sent his one begotten son to earth etc... he hath returned in the form of a ball python rejoice :bow:

on a semi related note, i did see a picture of a snake in a tortilla.

do you have any photos?? ive heard of females having eggs without breeding but they werent fertilized I have never heard of parthenogenesis actually resulting in healthy offspring.. how interesting. shes never been paired up.. like ever??

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Originally Posted by Moriar

the lord sent his one begotten son to earth etc... he hath returned in the form of a ball python rejoice :bow:

on a semi related note, i did see a picture of a snake in a tortilla.

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hahahahaha:rofl:

I can see this on an episode of Maury..

sometimes (not saying now) there have been reports of females storeing sperm for a couple years. i have herd of a female bread to a lesser one year then a pastel then next on the year she was bread to the pastel 1 lesser poped out. keep in mind this is what THEY have told me so take it for what it is worth.

I talked to a breeder at a show last month and he told me he bought an adult het albino female. He had her for a while, then bred her to his male albino one time, and that's it. She laid eggs and he hatched out an albino, 2 normals, 2 mojaves and a pastel? She was obviously storing sperm from the previous owner, but that's one hell of a clutch. I don't know what to tell you about you girl?

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Originally Posted by Moriar

the lord sent his one begotten son to earth etc... he hath returned in the form of a ball python rejoice :bow:

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:rofl::please::rofl:

i hope your baby snakes dont start a up riseing to return all captiv snakes back to africa

Got any pictures?

She has never been housed with another snake since i have had her, but when she was less than a year she was housed with another ball (from what my friend tells me) but that was 13 years ago when she would have not been mature. I also think the other snake was a female, so not too sure if it were a male if sperm could be held for 13 years? either way pretty cool. I will take some pictures of the eggs soon.

Please keep us posted!!!!
This is the only case I've heard of... http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...arthenogenesis

So COOL!!! If you saw a movement, they might be close to hatching!?!?!? :O

http://picasaweb.google.com/treyoffr...85984573126930

candling them

http://picasaweb.google.com/treyoffr...85971688225026

in the light

i believe they are due march 14-17, just gestimating though

scientifically proven in Burmese pythons... I posted a link to the study somewhere here. Most of the debate has always come down to retained sperm vs actual parthenogenesis. In this case genetic testing proved it true.

Here's the post I put up referencing the scientific study:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=61478

Are there any links to care for the young on this forum? I am sure it is obvious but I can't seem to find a care sheet or suggestions on what to do after they breech.

thanks

This is Adam's and it's GREAT!

http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal/...ingseating.htm

Hope that helped! :D

thanks a lot, that seems like some good info

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Originally Posted by zombieflesh

thanks a lot, that seems like some good info

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No problem :)

Since this is so rare, would you consider contacting research groups in your area? You'd probably have little difficulty finding a geneticist or herptologist interested in doing the genetic testing to confirm if it is a true case or not (They just see if all offspring are the same sex, and genetically identical) because it's something so rare.

I have some contacts with the University of Tennessee and When they are looking healthy I will probably do that, and then maybe write a paper, though I'm not much on writing.

I've heard that this could happen but....wow! It's not like it happens everyday!:snake:

Any update!?!?!? :)

wow that is awesome i was honestly just thinking about this the other day. any update on how they are doing?

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Originally Posted by Laooda

Any update!?!?!? :)

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How bout now? :oops: I'm really so curious about this!

I have one head poking out of the egg!!!!!!!! woot!!!!! very scared i will mess somehting up, any tips?

TIP ONE!
TAKE PICS!

hahaha

pics are being taken, tip two?

Post said pics..... quick!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by BalloonzForU

Post said pics..... quick!!! ;)

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YES!

Pics Must See Pics!

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Originally Posted by zombieflesh

I have one head poking out of the egg!!!!!!!! woot!!!!! very scared i will mess somehting up, any tips?

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WOW Congrats!!!!! :banana: I'm also wanting those Pix! lol :P

This is Adam's link on getting babies started... great info! :gj:
http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal/...ingseating.htm

here is a link to my web album of the pics i have taken, the first one looks great!!!!(from what I know and can tell..gestimation)

The second one was peeping out of his egg this morning, when I moved him to his new home he hid back in the egg. I hope this wont be an issue. :snake:

http://picasaweb.google.com/treyoffroad/Snakes

Amazing! and what a little cutie! Good luck with them, you must be very excited :)

What a DOLL!!!! Here's the $1,000,000.00 question....

Does it look JUST like it's mother??? You gotta post pix of #2!!!

Oh, and I really would read over this care sheet... http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal/...ingseating.htm hatchlings do best on damp paper towels until their first sheds... you don't want any shedding problems with you wee-littles! :)

Congrats again! :D

Not a breeder or anything, but aren't the paper towels supposed to be damp for the umbilical cord? At least that's how I always see them :confused:

Edit: Laooda beat me to it! Slow chubby fingers of mine. :(

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Not a breeder or anything, but aren't the paper towels supposed to be damp for the umbilical cord? At least that's how I always see them :confused:

Edit: Laooda beat me to it! Slow chubby fingers of mine. :(

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Hahaha... girl, I haven't had my second cup of coffee... and I KNOW you don't type slower than me! :P

paper towels are now moist, but the one that is out of her egg is all piss and vinegar, snapped at me twice while i was adding water to the towels, is this the norm for hatchlings?

congrats on the miracle babies! very cool!

That's so cool! Like the pics!
Will you post momma too?

so one of the babies is still staying in the egg, has been about 48 hours, she will move around and react to me being near her, but stays in the egg, is this ok?

i will post pics of momma and babies soon, should be pretty sweet

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Originally Posted by zombieflesh

so one of the babies is still staying in the egg, has been about 48 hours, she will move around and react to me being near her, but stays in the egg, is this ok?

i will post pics of momma and babies soon, should be pretty sweet

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Babies will stay in their eggs while they absorb the remainder of their egg yoke... I think 48 hrs. is fine! I bet it comes out real soon...

Can't wait to see pix of all 3! :D

it looks different than an normal. it's pattern on the sides are connected and it looks like the majority of it's back is black.............thinking about selling them?lol

Confused... :weirdface Are you also Zombieflesh?

no. i'm just replying to the pictures of the babies.

it has now been 72 hours and she is still in egg, but has emerged just a bit, and it is looking good.

As for the pattern/color, i am waiting for the the 2nd to come out of her egg so I can compare the two,

I do not plan on selling any of them, I want to keep one and I plan on giving the other to a friend of mine who used to have the mama.

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Originally Posted by KCBALLer

no. i'm just replying to the pictures of the babies.

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My bad! I read it like the second came out... :rolleyes: Sorry! lol

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Originally Posted by zombieflesh

it has now been 72 hours and she is still in egg, but has emerged just a bit, and it is looking good.

As for the pattern/color, i am waiting for the the 2nd to come out of her egg so I can compare the two,

I do not plan on selling any of them, I want to keep one and I plan on giving the other to a friend of mine who used to have the mama.

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Can't wait to see the pix! :D I'm soooo curious to see if they look just like their mother!

I like baby #1 something different

More pictures!!!