I am a Shady dealer magnet (vent)

I think it's a talent of mine, really. I manage to engage in what seem like reputable deals and yet somehow, I get ripped off for what may be the second time in a six month period to the tune of $1600. Seriously.... Is there even a defendable business ethic among smalltime breeders??

Here is the synopsis.

I go looking for another adult female spider to add to the collection (sue me, but I love the lesser bees). I find what I think is a reputable deal. A guy 'getting out of the business' with a 1700g spider girl that is, and I quote, 'ready to go' and has supposedly been locked with a lesser recently (of which I tend to never believe claims of that kind). I contact the guy, ask for a solid reference and get one. Everything seems legit. I ask my standard line of questions and pay the $1600 asking price without haggling, within 48 hours of initial contact. After paying, I find another ad by the same guy which lists a few other 07 morphs that seem a bit underweight (200g at 7 months old) but the deal is done, so I wait it out.

Upon receiving said girl, she is an absolute beauty. Gorgeous coloring. She is, however, a bit on the thin side and obviously nowhere near 'thick' enough to breed (she comes in at 1675g). (For comparison, my 04 girl is 10 inches shorter in length than the new girl, but they weigh the same) She is not emaciated or scrawny, but also not in robust good health, she actually has the 'thinness' I equate with recovering mothers about 4 months after laying.

She goes immediately into quarantine to warm up from her chilly journey. Within a few days, she consistently displays a rather advanced stage of what I think of as the 'neurologic spider syndrome'. She constantly tilts her head to the right and exhibits behavior just shy of outright stargazing. *Let me digress and say that I am perfectly aware of this trait being associated with spiders, however I have made a point of staying away from this kind of stock. None of my current spiders (adults or babies) exhibit any noticeable degree of this behavior. It is a personal choice I made not to deal with this trait.* That said, I am not happy that absolutely NO mention was made of this very pronounced behavior during the transaction. Nor of her overall condition.

So I get back in touch and essentially say ' What's the deal?' I mention the behavior and ask for more details over when she was last bred, I state that I am not mad, I just want the truth of her history. I was polite, but I wanted the real story behind her. I then get a flurry of emails from my contact who goes through variations of 'why whatever do you mean?' and that she locked last year but didn't go to term and was recently locked with the lesser, then I am told that he will contact his 'partner' who is responsible for the physical side of the business. Interestingly enough, the partner uses the same email addy. The partner goes through the affronted "All spiders have this trait and it is well known' she is a great girl and we felt follicles before we shipped her to you, have a great life". It is a very strange laurel and hardy routine the 2 of them do.

By this time 2 weeks have gone by. I debate keeping the girl and just not breeding her, but, beauty that she is, that's still a helluva blow to my breeding plans. I confess to throwing a shed skin from one of my stud males with her just to see how she reacts and she quite literally 'freaks out' and starts quivering and cramming herself into a small hide. Definitely not what I would call 'receptive'. Also at this point, she has been chowing rats like no tomorrow and has literally gained 175g in a little over 2 weeks. I waver for another week over whether to fight the battle that I know by this point, will ensue.

I take the civil approach and state that I feel she was misrepresented and will not fit into any of my future plans. I also allow that she has been with me for almost 3 weeks, but I ask for a refund. At first I get a ' your money is long gone, would you take another of the morphs I have listed instead'? I refuse this offer because I no longer trust this guy at all and do not want to trade bad for worse. He then says that he can repay the money 'as soon as he sells one of the other snakes' and that it may be up to 6 weeks or so. He also will not refund his original shipping fee. I state that this is acceptable (what choice do I have, really) and ship her back (almost one month later, and literally 300g heavier). A few days later I see her relisted at her heavier weight and a higher price. I assume that surely with that many morphs listed, he will be selling something soon. That was 2 weeks ago that I shipped her back. 'They' did not even bother to let me know they had received her, I had to check the fedex signature online and send them an email asking them to acknowledge that she made it fine. The return email states only 'acknowledged'.

Tonight I sent an email asking for some kind of good-faith showing (ie a small refund) just to show that they are serious and not jerking me around. I also can't help pointing out that I noticed the ad for the 'conveniently chubbier' girl with her new price. I get a curt reply stating that her additional weight (he states it as '100g or whatever') had nothing to do with it and tells me I'll get my full refund when he sells a snake (I can almost hear the 'dammit' that goes on the end of that sentence).

So here I am, noting that every snake he had listed 6 weeks ago is still listed. and thinking that the whole thing makes me wonder if I'll ever see the money again. Maybe I should just pretend like I never got a tax refund in the first place, eh?

Sorry to vent. This thread has no serious point and I left out a great many oddities that add to my bad feeling about the deal, I just needed to flaunt my idiocy around a bit more in case anyone had missed it and thought me competent. I should have turned to drugs instead of snakes. At least when your dealer cheats you, you kind of expect it.

signed,
hopelessly naive in cali

Holy Spit that was long. My Bad.

Cheers,
Kat

WOW, I'm sorry I hope you get you're money back some how ='[

OMG kat how terrible!! please list his information on the feedback forum so no one else has to experience this! Im so sorry you have gone through this, i hope the breeder makes right. i dont think i wouldve have sent the animal back

That sucks, I'm so sorry that happen. Hopefully this guy won't turn out to be a scum bag, and return your money.

Come to think of it, I actaully saw his ads. About him getting out of snakes, and selling out. I was actually going to inquire! Good thing I didn't have the money at that time. :O

If it turns out that he does infact scam you, I can find his information for you thru our investigvation programs.
Phone numbers, addresses, his cars he has, hell his past co workers.

Just let me know, And I'm willing to help.

Doug

Oh, i'm so sorry that this happened to you. I have been very unwilling to do any deals that are not local up until recently because of stories like this. I did just make a couple of deals where shipping will be required, but with VPI and BHB I should be fine. I hope everything works out for you in this. I would not post in a BOI or anything until you are absolutely sure he scammed you. He will be none too anxious to refund your cash after you blast him.

definitely give everyone this creeps name and maybe we can throw it over to Fauna and let the snoops have at him:D sorry about your lose and i hope everything eventually turns out the right way for you.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

definitely give everyone this creeps name and maybe we can throw it over to Fauna and let the snoops have at him:D sorry about your lose and i hope everything eventually turns out the right way for you.

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I'd be considered one of those "snoops" on fauna :D;)

We run the same systems that Police use. IRB SEARCH, CrimeStar, Locate Plus, etc.

Thats terrible and he is just hurting other smaller breeders by doing this. I personally would like to know the name, so I know to avoid. If you don't feel comfortable posting it, please PM me.

I personally would post the situation on the BOI. How much more proof do you need of a scam? Even if the 'cash' you sent is gone, he could PayPal you with a credit card. There are other ways of getting your money to you without him having to have the cash in hand. At the very least I would email him again and let him know that because you feel you have no other options left to you, you are considering posting on the BOI. That might light the fire under him needed to get your money back.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope it works out for you. :)


hana

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Originally Posted by pslsnakes

I'd be considered one of those "snoops" on fauna :D;)

We run the same systems that Police use. IRB SEARCH, CrimeStar, Locate Plus, etc.

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you guys do a hellova job let me say:gj:

That blows well atleast you have been in contact and they did actually send you a snake. Better than paying and then not recieving or not being able to get in touch.

so basically
you paid him the money for a snake you never got shipped to you?

"0.1 Spider – 1777g $2500" if this is the same guy I almost bought it but after a couple of emails I decided to go with a breeder near me for a little bit more money and a lot better answers:) Best of luck hope it works out for you.

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I would not post in a BOI or anything until you are absolutely sure he scammed you. He will be none too anxious to refund your cash after you blast him.

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Thus my venting here until I know for sure which way the wind is blowing.......

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so basically
you paid him the money for a snake you never got shipped to you?

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No idea how you reached this conclusion, but no. I did receive a snake that was not what was advertised, I tend to prefer straight dealing, so I returned her (with his agreement). However his attitude and inability to move any of his stock leaves me wondering at the odds of seeing my refund.

I will, of course, post to fauna if things go completely south, but since at this time he is at least responding to my emails, I have some small hope of him doing the right thing.

Cheers,
Kat

I would have been leary about returning her without the refund. I guess that it is risky buying from people who are getting out of ths business; they probably feel like they have nothing to lose. Yikes; sounds like a crappy situation all around; sorry you have to go through that.

Wow sorry to hear about what has happened. I hope you see your money soon.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

you guys do a hellova job let me say:gj:

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Oh, no no... I said "we" as in me and my parents. :D

I repo cars, my mom is a DEA Agent, and my step dad is a PI. We all have access to that stuff, and I just happen to use it for information when I see fit. Mostly to help somebody...like in the situation of the OP.

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Originally Posted by pslsnakes

Oh, no no... I said "we" as in me and my parents. :D

I repo cars, my mom is a DEA Agent, and my step dad is a PI. We all have access to that stuff, and I just happen to use it for information when I see fit. Mostly to help somebody...like in the situation of the OP.

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how ever that works over there they really go all out to help people. i think its a nice venue to have when you are looking to buy stuff from people and being able to find out whether they are reputable or not.

That story just makes me sick to my stomach for you! I completely agree with the fact that you didn't want to keep the misrepresented spider, but I don't think I would have sent it back... your definitely in a tough spot. I hope they pay you your money. They seem incredibly rude!

Justin

Sorry to hear about that Kat, I hope you will get your money back.

8 Ball Pythons where one goes for no worries:gj:

nobody will tell you how shakey their spider really is...

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

how ever that works over there they really go all out to help people. i think its a nice venue to have when you are looking to buy stuff from people and being able to find out whether they are reputable or not.

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Oh, trust me, that's exactly what I do before I decide to send anyone money for something. ;)

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Originally Posted by bigballs

nobody will tell you how shakey their spider really is...

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My 2007 male hasn't showed one sign of shaking or spinning....

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Originally Posted by pslsnakes

My 2007 male hasn't showed one sign of shaking or spinning....

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and for that i applaud him! :clap:

I think you made a mistake in returning the snake without a definite refund time. Since you left it open to "when I sell another snake", you're kind of stuck until he decides to pay you.
I'd send him a note saying you want some or all of your refund now, or you will have to feel like he has no intention to pay, and you will take it to the BOI.
What's the time from when you returned the snake and now?
He owes you the refund No Doubt. It's the time he's taking, since you basically agreed to wait until he sold a snake. But since he OWES you the refund, he needs to pay it. A reasonable amount of time has apparently come and gone.
Best of luck.

[QUOTE=pslsnakes;730184]Oh, trust me, that's exactly what I do before I decide to send anyone money for something. ;)


me too. i always do a ton of research and try to get as many references as possible. unfortunately there are always crooks.

[QUOTE=FL0OD;730210]

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Originally Posted by pslsnakes

Oh, trust me, that's exactly what I do before I decide to send anyone money for something. ;)


me too. i always do a ton of research and try to get as many references as possible. unfortunately there are always crooks.

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There will ALWAYS be crooks and scumbags...any where you go. It's a shame that there is people that are dishonest and want to scam you. Just like the scumbag that sold my mom a car last year, said it ran fine, and it did...for 5 minutes. Drove it two miles down the road, over heated and blew up. :mad: