My First BP.... Please Help

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting here. I recently bought a baby ball python from Petco (on Valentine's Day). When I bought him he was in the middle of a shed cycle (his eyes were blue). He shed went pretty roughly, it was all in pieces, but I helped him through it, due to some useful posts I came across here. Now that he's got almost al of his old skin off, I tried to feed him, but he seemed afraid of the mouse. I think it was the first live one he's ever encountered. So I took the mouse out and tried offering him some thawed pinkies (I'm pretty sure that's what he got at Petco). So far he's just hiding in a corner of his enclosure and completely ignoring them. I have about 50% humidity, 93 degrees on the hot side. He's in a 20 Gallon Long glass aquarium. He's about 23 inches long. Any advice? Please? I really really really don't want my new baby to die! Also, I think he might be dehydrated? This is my first ball python, and my second snake (the first one died due to my own lack of knowledge =[ ). Thanks for reading this, and please help me out.

~Riya

I am assuming there is a bowl in the tank? He might just be getting used to the new surroundings.

he might be stressed....i would give him a few days to calm down and try again.

He might eat F/T you never know,,,,,,,,:snake:

Make sure you thaw the pinkie in hot water for about 25 minutes and then put it under a heat lamp for about 30 seconds. That worked for me. Don't leave it in there more than 10 minutes because it cools down enough that the snake looses interest.

OMG. Reptiles need water?! Just kidding. Yes yes of course there is a bowl of water in his tank, haha, forgot to mention that.

Are you talking about a pinky mouse? If the bp is just under 2 feet long it will eat bigger prey than that. If you did not handle it during the first week of having it then you should be in good shape as long as husbandry is good. Petco feeds f/t, so it may have been intimidated by the live one. Try covering the enclosure with a towel or shirt to make it completely dark at feeding time. Good luck and keep us posted:)

50% humidity is a little low. Like was said though, leave him to relax without bugging him for about a week. That should let him settle. Make sure he has plenty of hides and the tank isn't too open, so he doesn't think he's a sitting duck.
Congrats on your new snake.

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. I don't think I've left the poor guy alone since I got him, what with me fretting over his horrid shed. I just raised the humidity to about 60%, and I'll leave him be for another week or so before trying a frozen/thawed mouse, not pinky, in his enclosure, in the dark. Hopefully that will cover everything and SARS will eat and grow and be healthy =D. Thanks so much everyone.

~Riya

You didn't mention any hides, snakes need hides, you should have at least 2 hides in your tank, or else the snake will feel to exposed. Gl ^^
Also you should keep bugging the snake, let them be for a bit. Is it a baby?

How big is he? An adult mouse is big for a baby.

First, i would crumple up some newspaper and put it in the tank so he's got alot of cover and will feel more secure.

Then give him a few days to a week to just settle in and down.
Then, if he is a small baby you should be giving him a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy(live preferebly). You could leave them in ther overnight, at that size the rodent cant harm snake. If you were soaking him in water to help with shed he shouldn't be too dehydrated.

If you tried to do too many things at once(bring him home, assist with shed, handle, etc..) this will stress him out before he even got a chance to settle in, that could cause him to go off feed.

Give him a nice hide and leave him alone for about a week before offering him another meal.

You've already gotten some good info... I'd just like to say congrats on having done so much of the research on your own and getting the majority of the basic husbandry sorted out and settled for him :D

Sounds like he's still a little stressed is all, give him a bit of time and things should work out!

If it's 23 inches long, then an adult mouse should be just fine. It depends on how thick he is at his widest point. Give him a few days without bothering him at all and you should be in good shape....and I second that you need two hides.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

How big is he? An adult mouse is big for a baby.

First, i would crumple up some newspaper and put it in the tank so he's got alot of cover and will feel more secure.

Then give him a few days to a week to just settle in and down.
Then, if he is a small baby you should be giving him a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy(live preferebly). You could leave them in ther overnight, at that size the rodent cant harm snake. If you were soaking him in water to help with shed he shouldn't be too dehydrated.

If you tried to do too many things at once(bring him home, assist with shed, handle, etc..) this will stress him out before he even got a chance to settle in, that could cause him to go off feed.

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Hey just thought id say, don't leave a LIVE mouse with him overnight, F/T sure, but a live mouse unattended can cause damage to a snake so extensive it will need to be put down. You can chose to feed live or thawed but with a live mouse watch carefully the entire time he is in with your snake (in his enclosure of separately) and if it is not eaten within half an hour, or as long as you want to monitor it, remove it and try again later.

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Originally Posted by missi182

Hey just thought id say, don't leave a LIVE mouse with him overnight, F/T sure, but a live mouse unattended can cause damage to a snake so extensive it will need to be put down. You can chose to feed live or thawed but with a live mouse watch carefully the entire time he is in with your snake (in his enclosure of separately) and if it is not eaten within half an hour, or as long as you want to monitor it, remove it and try again later.

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Wrong. Fuzzies and pinkies are ok to leave, as they have no teeth. Raul has been breeding for a while and knows his stuff:gj:

Ah! Silly me, of course he has a hide also. Just one but seeing as two are required I will get him another one very soon. I assume he's a baby as he seems small and when I compare him to pictures of the grown-ups he's definitely dwarfed. He's not very thick either, so I guess mouse hoppers is the best choice here. And no live mice with him unattended, gotcha. Thanks ever so much! I've only had him (or her I guess) for a whole week and I love him already!

Can you get pics of him? I don't think my bp is 23 inches, I feed him 2 hoppers every week.

I can take pictures next week when he's no longer off limits :P

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Originally Posted by missi182

Hey just thought id say, don't leave a LIVE mouse with him overnight, F/T sure, but a live mouse unattended can cause damage to a snake so extensive it will need to be put down. You can chose to feed live or thawed but with a live mouse watch carefully the entire time he is in with your snake (in his enclosure of separately) and if it is not eaten within half an hour, or as long as you want to monitor it, remove it and try again later.

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Thats why I said mouse hopper or rat fuzzy. It's done all the time to get babies to eat for the first time.

OK well i will agree to disagree:) I don't think leaving live mice regardless of size overnight is intelligent but I can understand why you would say it is o.k. Im just saying this to be sure that people who are new to ball-pythons are better off safe than sorry.
I apologize if I seemed rude but like I said, safer than sorry, its better to teach good habits right from the start than introduce bad ones(not that feeding live is a bad habit, I just don't agree with it, but no argument needed, my snake is not fussy and if he was Im sure I would need live eventually)

Also the breeders in my area (Ontario, Toronto) stress to every customer they have not to feed live. Around here it is highly frowned upon. I have noticed opinions on this are very different on this forum, and there is nothing wrong with that!:) It is actually quite amazing to see the differences in what people will suggest when it comes to care and husbandry between local breeders and the online community. Like I said, I did not mean to be rude and I SHOULD have said it was my opinion, not fact. I was not aware that it was indeed safe to feed small mice (fuzzys) without supervision as I had been told continously never to feed live. I learn so much everyday and enjoy everyones opinion on this forum.

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Originally Posted by missi182

OK well i will agree to disagree:) I don't think leaving live mice regardless of size overnight is intelligent but I can understand why you would say it is o.k. Im just saying this to be sure that people who are new to ball-pythons are better off safe than sorry.
I apologize if I seemed rude but like I said, safer than sorry, its better to teach good habits right from the start than introduce bad ones(not that feeding live is a bad habit, I just don't agree with it, but no argument needed, my snake is not fussy and if he was Im sure I would need live eventually)

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I have started many non eating hatchlings this way and have learned this technique from other larger breeders. I don't not give out information that is unsafe or unproven by experienced keepers. The purpose of this thread is to help the OP with the problem at hand and I am providing her with proven methods that I have used sucessfully many times. The only bad habit I see is giving advice to people when you have no experience with the problem and give info based on your opinion not experience.

missi182,
a hopper mouse or rat fuzzy does not have the jaw strength or teeth hardness to hurt a BP of any age. Their teeth are still soft, and the chances of breaking the skin are non-existant. Also rat fuzzies eyes aren't even open yet, they are only a week old.

Check out this site before you bring on the disagreements with veteran BP keepers and breeders about the safety involved with young mice and rats.
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_rats

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Originally Posted by missi182

Also the breeders in my area (Ontario, Toronto) stress to every customer they have not to feed live. Around here it is highly frowned upon. I have noticed opinions on this are very different on this forum, and there is nothing wrong with that!:) It is actually quite amazing to see the differences in what people will suggest when it comes to care and husbandry between local breeders and the online community. Like I said, I did not mean to be rude and I SHOULD have said it was my opinion, not fact. I was not aware that it was indeed safe to feed small mice (fuzzys) without supervision as I had been told continously never to feed live. I learn so much everyday and enjoy everyones opinion on this forum.

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I live about an hour from you and I've got no clue who you're talking to but it's certainly not frowned upon feeding live. Most of the people I've spoke with feed live and breed their own rats because it's more cost effective, and they sell of the excess that they don't use personally as frozen rats to pet owners.

Wow guys, let's not start another f/t vs. live arguement. The point of this thread is supposed to be helping this person with their snake, not bickering. Pretty please?

Not trying to sound all bossy or anything, I know I'm not a mod, but it seems like this happens a lot on here and then the whole thread goes off track.

Ariesearth, what kind of heat source are you using? Do you have a thermometer/hydrometer? What kind of bedding are you using? Just trying to get an overall picture so we know if your setup is ok or not. Good luck with your baby! :D

I think it's important to let others know their experiences and facts about non-eating snakes, and the above comments are in no way derailing it, but instead making this thread more valuable because of the broad range of issues related to live feeding. One being if it is ok or not to leave a hopper mouse or rat fuzzie in with the OP's non-eating snake. Which for many keepers is OK. :)

Well yea, I understand that. it just seems every time someone mentions something about live feeders being dangerous all the keepers that feed live jump on them in masse.

I only commented because I take great issue with some generalizing a very large area saying that everyone in it would tell you not to feed live when I know for a FACT that they breed their own rats and sell off the surplus as frozen... While I do appologize to the poster if it interferred with the topic of their thread, I just felt the need to point out that this geographic local is not biased against live.

If you're having issues with a baby eatting, leaving a live hopper or fuzzy over night and adding extra security to the enclosure - often crumpled newspaper - is a great way to get them started. If you want to switch over to frozen later you can do that once started, or try right from the get go, also leaving them over night.

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Originally Posted by missi182

Also the breeders in my area (Ontario, Toronto) stress to every customer they have not to feed live. Around here it is highly frowned upon. I have noticed opinions on this are very different on this forum, and there is nothing wrong with that!:) It is actually quite amazing to see the differences in what people will suggest when it comes to care and husbandry between local breeders and the online community. Like I said, I did not mean to be rude and I SHOULD have said it was my opinion, not fact. I was not aware that it was indeed safe to feed small mice (fuzzys) without supervision as I had been told continously never to feed live. I learn so much everyday and enjoy everyones opinion on this forum.

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Isnt it illegal to feed live where your from? I may be wrong, or maybe its the uk.. I know it is one or the other though.

Im seriously fed up with this forum. I appreciate EVERYONES opinion!!! and when a question is posted answers are OPINIONS! I give up, everytime I make a mistake I get ripped out. I am learning as well but at the same time I believe I have some knowlege that could help but I guess I dont. And for the record, every breeder I have spoken with in the peterborough, cavan and toronto area ( so like 11 breeders, not all of them every single one) has told me not to feed live. Girdance, where were you when I was asking for help from locals on this forum? I don't think it is worth me getting stressed out over it anymore, Im very tired of people being so aggressive with methods, which I do not disagree with , i just dont personally use.

And I do apologize to the original thread starter for arguing. I hope you do find the information you need to help set up your bp and give him everything he could need. There are very helpful people on this forum, it is just difficult to find a topic that will not cause debate.

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Originally Posted by AriesEarth

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting here. I recently bought a baby ball python from Petco (on Valentine's Day). When I bought him he was in the middle of a shed cycle (his eyes were blue). He shed went pretty roughly, it was all in pieces, but I helped him through it, due to some useful posts I came across here. Now that he's got almost al of his old skin off, I tried to feed him, but he seemed afraid of the mouse. I think it was the first live one he's ever encountered. So I took the mouse out and tried offering him some thawed pinkies (I'm pretty sure that's what he got at Petco). So far he's just hiding in a corner of his enclosure and completely ignoring them. I have about 50% humidity, 93 degrees on the hot side. He's in a 20 Gallon Long glass aquarium. He's about 23 inches long. Any advice? Please? I really really really don't want my new baby to die! Also, I think he might be dehydrated? This is my first ball python, and my second snake (the first one died due to my own lack of knowledge =[ ). Thanks for reading this, and please help me out.

~Riya

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Hey Riya,

Welcome to the site, nice to see another long islander!

Everyone has given you great advice but just wanted to welcome a fellow neighbor to the site. Best of luck with your little friend. :)

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Isnt it illegal to feed live where your from? I may be wrong, or maybe its the uk.. I know it is one or the other though.

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UK is not illegal but feeding live is a last resort after F/T. And I think , I'm not positive, that you need a vet to help you get the live feeders. Hopefully Derek can shed some light on this if he sees.

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Originally Posted by missi182

Im seriously fed up with this forum. I appreciate EVERYONES opinion!!! and when a question is posted answers are OPINIONS! I give up, everytime I make a mistake I get ripped out. I am learning as well but at the same time I believe I have some knowlege that could help but I guess I dont. And for the record, every breeder I have spoken with in the peterborough, cavan and toronto area ( so like 11 breeders, not all of them every single one) has told me not to feed live. Girdance, where were you when I was asking for help from locals on this forum? I don't think it is worth me getting stressed out over it anymore, Im very tired of people being so aggressive with methods, which I do not disagree with , i just dont personally use.

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I sent you a PM to not hijack this further... Either way, didn't mean to make you feel attacked, but wanted to correct what I see as a falsehood, and if that is what you were advised I'm sorry that you were and would love to know their reasons for it.

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Originally Posted by missi182

Im seriously fed up with this forum. I appreciate EVERYONES opinion!!! and when a question is posted answers are OPINIONS! I give up, everytime I make a mistake I get ripped out. I am learning as well but at the same time I believe I have some knowlege that could help but I guess I dont. And for the record, every breeder I have spoken with in the peterborough, cavan and toronto area ( so like 11 breeders, not all of them every single one) has told me not to feed live. Girdance, where were you when I was asking for help from locals on this forum? I don't think it is worth me getting stressed out over it anymore, Im very tired of people being so aggressive with methods, which I do not disagree with , i just dont personally use.

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Missi please dont be upset. I have nothing personel against you and hope you stay around and enjoy the site.

New people come to this site everyday when they have a problem with a snake and we want to help. Very often people who have had a snake for a month or two start giving advice about situations they have never encountered and are many times wrong and the problem worsens. When experienced keepers see this they chime in (usually loudly) and give proven cures that have worked for them before.

The reality is what's best for the snake comes first and stepping on toes second. I once saw a guy who hatched a snake that still had a large yolk sack attached, people were telling him to cull the animal because his organs were exposed and he would only die and suffer. Luckily an experienced keeper chimed in before the snake was put down. All the snake needed was to be on a damp paper towel untill it falls off.

You may think this isn't as serious but if that snake doesn't eat it will die.

My advice if you don't know a proven cure, don't confuse the issue:)

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

UK is not illegal but feeding live is a last resort after F/T. And I think , I'm not positive, that you need a vet to help you get the live feeders. Hopefully Derek can shed some light on this if he sees.

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Hi,

It is definately not illegal in the U.K. as you say but you have to be able to justify it if asked I believe.

They obviously would not expect you to let our snake starve to death if it would not accept F/T (and indeed would prosecute you if you did) but equally may decide to prosecute you for cruelty to the prey animal if your responce was "cos it looks cool to see it die" or something equally vacuous.

They are sensible, reasonable people for the most part who share our love of animals at the end of the day. :)

On the getting the feeders part it is illegal to sell a live mammal under six weeks of age from what I can find out so some sizes of prey item will be difficult to get unless you breed them yourself.

This may only apply to pet shops however and I am far from a legal expert on any of this. :oops:


dr del

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Originally Posted by missi182

OK well i will agree to disagree:) I don't think leaving live mice regardless of size overnight is intelligent but I can understand why you would say it is o.k. Im just saying this to be sure that people who are new to ball-pythons are better off safe than sorry.
I apologize if I seemed rude but like I said, safer than sorry, its better to teach good habits right from the start than introduce bad ones(not that feeding live is a bad habit, I just don't agree with it, but no argument needed, my snake is not fussy and if he was Im sure I would need live eventually)

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I understand the concern in this post and it is much appreciated. I do however have to point out that maybe some of your being fed up with this site is based on differences between the 11 breeders you've spoken with, and the general ideas of this online community.

The major one being that feeding live is comparable to a bad habit. You may have had a short disclaimer, but the way you worded it made it very well sound like the MOD was recommending a dangerous and bad habit of feeding. It's almost an insult, and I wasn't pleased to see it as we feed a majority of our snakes live with no problems.

No one is out to get you Missi, rather we are trying to help educate everyone on some very general accepted methods for keeping and breeding.

As always, we are all a very close group and welcome many new keepers to this site as well as old pro's, me being one of those rookies. We are passionate about these animals and I personally enjoy helping others on the road to successful acclimations and set the base for many years to come of herp keeping.

I would hope one thread doesn't sour this entire community for you. Instead allows you to embrace your hobby with a broader horizon than what you first came with.

I was silly enough not to read WHO had posted the the suggestion of feeding a live fuzzy or pinkie before I spoke. Besides that point, after discussion with a few members here privately, I can understand the error I have made. I have recieved some incorrect information from a number of 'breeders' in this area which infact are not likely to be actual breeders.

I have apologized to those I feel I may have insulted. I think I will hold my toungue (or fingers heh) in the future unless the advice I am giving has been proven to work for myself and others, in which case I am sure others will have the same advice.

I am lucky that my baby bp eats F/T and I have never been in a situation where he would not (with the exception to sitting next to his enclosure with a set on hemostats hoping a dead mouse around for half an hour before he is interested....thats always fun....) and I am sure if he stopped eating i would now feed him a live meal as compared to continously attempting a F/T meal. I learn every day on here and although at times it may feel a little irritating that I am wrong about something for the millionth time, that is the point of this forum. I will make mistakes and learn.

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Originally Posted by missi182

I was silly enough not to read WHO had posted the the suggestion of feeding a live fuzzy or pinkie before I spoke. Besides that point, after discussion with a few members here privately, I can understand the error I have made. I have recieved some incorrect information from a number of 'breeders' in this area which infact are not likely to be actual breeders.

I have apologized to those I feel I may have insulted. I think I will hold my toungue (or fingers heh) in the future unless the advice I am giving has been proven to work for myself and others, in which case I am sure others will have the same advice.

I am lucky that my baby bp eats F/T and I have never been in a situation where he would not (with the exception to sitting next to his enclosure with a set on hemostats hoping a dead mouse around for half an hour before he is interested....thats always fun....) and I am sure if he stopped eating i would now feed him a live meal as compared to continously attempting a F/T meal. I learn every day on here and although at times it may feel a little irritating that I am wrong about something for the millionth time, that is the point of this forum. I will make mistakes and learn.

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Very cool Missi! We all blow it, or are misinformed, or type faster than our neural net is firing! It's always nice when we realize our error and then take steps to correct it! You rock!! :gj: