Is my tank too big?

I have a 40 gallon breeder that I plan on keeping a ball python. The little guy is about 6 months old and maybe a foot and a half long. is this going to be too big?

I also have a 10 gallon that I was planning on keeping mice in (buy them at the beginning of the month, feed as I go) but I guess I could keep the ball in there while he's still small.

yes that's a bit big for your size snake.easiest thing to do is put a divider in the 40 gal. tank.

you could use a piece of cardboard or plastic taped in place,as your snake grows you can increase the size of the enclosure.have fun !

40 gal is WAY too big for almost all BP's, also you won't be able to properly regulate temps in that huge thing without putting a few hundred dollars into the tank. Go with a tub from walmart for $10.

40 gal is a little large for a baby... if it was an older BP it would be fine but for a baby it doesnt make sense. Its also very challenging to get temps/humidity in the right area in glass so a tub is your best bet. A66qt snap top tub at lowes or home depot is about the same size as glass 20L and only costs like 10$... I use these for my babies until they are about 500g then I move them to larger tubs.

I would say thats to big.

Like stated, get yourself a tub from Wal-mart, or some where like that. Put a few holes in it and call it a day.

Glass tanks with screen-tops do not hold heat, or humidity very well.

guess there are more than one ways to do everything. i myself have my bp in a 70gal glass (48x18x19) and kinda wish that it was bigger. i have pretty much 3 hides in there and a bunch of plants and a huge water bowl (no room for a waterfall tho) but with the size i was able to give her a nice forest retreat and even made one of her hides close to a underground burrow for her temps and humidity took me a few days to get perfect with a proper mix of bark to coconut husk, but the fact that i live im michigan and had the balcony door open a few days that week didnt help that any.

i feel if you give your lil one enough places to feel safe youll be fine, my girl is happy and loves to roam. she has a few differant temps zones which she can choose from and her humidity varies a lil too but not as much (under her leaves is slightly higher)

its for sure a little more work but if its worth having its worth working for

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

guess there are more than one ways to do everything. i myself have my bp in a 70gal glass (48x18x19) and kinda wish that it was bigger. i have pretty much 3 hides in there and a bunch of plants and a huge water bowl (no room for a waterfall tho) but with the size i was able to give her a nice forest retreat and even made one of her hides close to a underground burrow for her temps and humidity took me a few days to get perfect with a proper mix of bark to coconut husk, but the fact that i live im michigan and had the balcony door open a few days that week didnt help that any.

i feel if you give your lil one enough places to feel safe youll be fine, my girl is happy and loves to roam. she has a few differant temps zones which she can choose from and her humidity varies a lil too but not as much (under her leaves is slightly higher)

its for sure a little more work but if its worth having its worth working for

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Well, this set-up sounds pretty cool~ with many hides and an underground lair, as it were, it sounds like it is very realistic to a ball python's natural habitat. Do you pre-scent to have the snake come out of the burrow to ambush the prey? Also, I noticed that you have 2 balls (ahem...) I am curious as to whether you keep both in this tank or if you have 2 tanks?? Just wondering cause it sounds very spacious and yet also sounds like you've provided a lot of realism for snake... I would *love* to see a picture!! I think the underground burrow sounds cool.....

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Originally Posted by starmom

Well, this set-up sounds pretty cool~ with many hides and an underground lair, as it were, it sounds like it is very realistic to a ball python's natural habitat. Do you pre-scent to have the snake come out of the burrow to ambush the prey? Also, I noticed that you have 2 balls (ahem...) I am curious as to whether you keep both in this tank or if you have 2 tanks?? Just wondering cause it sounds very spacious and yet also sounds like you've provided a lot of realism for snake... I would *love* to see a picture!! I think the underground burrow sounds cool.....

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1st no they are in seperate tanks sadly the pastel is only in a 20 gal cuz my wife wont let me buy another 70 just yet but thats another story. he will get his 70 asap tho
they will share a tank for a lil while next season tho when my girl is bigger tho

2 i have never "pre-sented" but from what i have read about it i guess i have been pretty much pre-senting 24/7 as i used to keep my rats in a cage sitting right on top of my bps cage and now they are sitting in the cabinet under them, so pre-senting wouldnt work to well i dont think in my house just guess im lucky i havent teased them to much lol. i just put the rat in the other side of the cage and let nature take it from there.

3 on the underground hide its kinda cheating a little bit i took one of her log hides pushed it up on the glass with a little bit extra bedding inside and then burried the other side with bedding. she made her little hole that she gets in and out of, kinda stole the idea from those half caves you can buy but she likes it.( i can spend hours setting things up like that even do a bunch of fun things for the hamster and gerbil out of cardboard has to be trashed alot but gives me more to do). i have pics of the old way the tank was set up in my galbut ill post new ones of the set up now when i can my laptop is acting up right now

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=60395

771subliminal....
what is that on the back and side of the tank? looks like plastic wrap...if so i bet u have good humidity in there :)

sorry...i'm a newbie still with snakes hehe, getting one on Sat and currently have a 70g tank as well, its all set up and working on it to keep up humidity, heat isn't a prob yet. i hear plastic works wonder for humidity, i have thought of getting a small waterfall or humidifier to add to tank as well :)

Sorry i posted 2 times....the other post was in pics forum...oops hehe

I personally dont think theres such thing as "too big" of an enclosure as long as temps/humidity are where they need to be and hides are available. I keep my larger females in 4x2x1.5ft cages and theyre perfect. For newbies we try to shy them away from using larger enclosures (especially glass) because its more challenging to get temps/humidity right. Many newbies dont even know the basics 100% which is fine but trying to get eveything where it needs to be is challenging and even more so in a large glass tank. I still use a 40gal but I have a whole room set to the right temps/humidity so it doesnt really matter.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I personally dont think theres such thing as "too big" of an enclosure as long as temps/humidity are where they need to be and hides are available. I keep my larger females in 4x2x1.5ft cages and theyre perfect. For newbies we try to shy them away from using larger enclosures (especially glass) because its more challenging to get temps/humidity right. Many newbies dont even know the basics 100% which is fine but trying to get eveything where it needs to be is challenging and even more so in a large glass tank. I still use a 40gal but I have a whole room set to the right temps/humidity so it doesnt really matter.

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I agree completely! There's no such thing as too big... I mean, Africa is rather big, isn't it ;)

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I agree completely! There's no such thing as too big... I mean, Africa is rather big, isn't it ;)

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And in a Ball Pythons life it might utilize 1-1,000,000,000,000 of Africa's available space. :gj:

On top of, what a wild animal does in its home, and what a captive animal does in my living room are to totally different things. We keep 20 foot Retics in 6x3x2. Maybe something that large needs a whole house? You could give that Retic a whole house and it wold still find a corner of a room and curl up and stay there.

Same with a Ball Python, or most any other ground base snake.

By the way. I have seen BPs fast and stress out due to being in to large of a cage.

In my opinion there can be to large of cages.

Just my two cents.

I know I dont have a large sample size with only 11 snakes but all 11 are in enclosures that are deemed "too big" and I have had no issues. Do I think that there may be snakes who would be stressed by a larger enclosure and not eat? Yea im sure there are some but I would also bet that theres more to it than just the size. Just bc an animal can be kept alive and healthy in a small space doesnt mean its most beneficial. I like to give all my animals the best life possible and to me being stuffed in a 6inch high tub thats got just enough room to move around isnt considered the best life. I dont hold anything against those people who choose to keep their animals like this its just not my style.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I know I dont have a large sample size with only 11 snakes but all 11 are in enclosures that are deemed "too big" and I have had no issues. Do I think that there may be snakes who would be stressed by a larger enclosure and not eat? Yea im sure there are some but I would also bet that theres more to it than just the size. Just bc an animal can be kept alive and healthy in a small space doesnt mean its most beneficial. I like to give all my animals the best life possible and to me being stuffed in a 6inch high tub thats got just enough room to move around isnt considered the best life. I dont hold anything against those people who choose to keep their animals like this its just not my style.

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Well, if you believe that its not the best of life, does that mean that we are wrong?

How do you know an animal is thriving? When it eats, grows well, little to no illness and finally, BREEDS.

Snakes WILL NOT breed if they are uncomfortable or not in the best circumstances they perceive. This can be due to many things like weather patterns, food availability, security.... I think the best compliment for any BP keeper is when their snakes breed and reproduce little ones. This has been working for decades, and will continue...

Its not a matter of right or wrong... your animals are alive and healthy so its obviously not "wrong".... is it wrong to keep a dog in a cage? No its not wrong but I also personally dont believe in using them. If you feel your giving your animals the best life possible then who cares what I think? My goal with keeping animals is to give them the best possible life. In reference to snakes that includes proper humidity/temps, snug hides to sleep in, and room to move when theyre awake. I dont believe that just because you get your snakes to breed they have the best life possible. Yes they are healthy but there are plenty of people in this world who are healthy enough to have babies but that doesnt mean their lives couldnt be better.... do i make any sense haha

Jumping right in...;)
I believe that differences are good because differences allow research to happen and new knowledge to be gained about these boids. I have some balls in tubs and some balls in reptile cages and I can tell no differences in eating, sleeping, stress levels, etc. All snakes have ample room to move around and all snakes have hides. It will be interesting to observe the snakes as they grow older and compare behaviors of older (larger) snakes in tubs to the older and larger snakes in the cages.
I believe there are correct husbandry methodologies that have been proven wise to follow (temps, humidity, hides, prey size, etc), but I have not ever been exposed to any research that suggests these requirements can not be met in enclosures other than tubs.
That's my 2 cents, for whatever it might be worth toward this discussion....

I actually also have a young ball, Seymore. He is only about 7 months old, but he is spoiled! I have a 75 gallon terrarium with a hoge log, vine, 6 hides, 2 water bowls and tons of moss. The hides are all different and provide different functions, they aren't all just rocks or whatever. One is a giant rock pile or "outcropping" as they call it. It really radiates with heat. It has an open bottom and heats up real nice for when Seymore gets chilly. I then have a half log on his hot side. I have a small rock cave in the middle for those tight-hide days. I have another log on the cool side. He loves to switch between the two logs since they always stay real humid and warm. I then have a really neat hobbit-house looking thing. It's a strategically stacked pile of rocks with grass and things growing out of it. It looks awesome and has moss in it for a shed box. I then also have a huge tree with leaves and stuff (fake of course). it has like 6 different entry points and under the roots is the hide. It also has moss in it and really burrows down. Seymore is currently in there enjoying his evening.

I have a plexiglass top cut to 2/3 the length of the tank, keeping in a lot of humidity and heat. I can regularly keep the cool side at 80 and the hot at 92. Humidity was a bit of a problem until today. I built a homemade misting system. it has a 5 gallon resevoir, so I only have to fill it once every month or so. It has a submersible pump that pumps to 1/2" clear tubing. that tubing runs up along the back of the tank, along the top and down back into the bucket. along the way, three smaller tubes (1/4") split off the big tube and are attached to the top of the tank. They terminate with a 90 degree misting nozzle. the downward tube was stealing pressure from the system since it didnt require pressure to fall. So, I used a double clamp and kinked the tube restricting waterflow substantially while still allowing it to return to the bucket. Then I plugged the pump into a 7 day programmable timer. I have the pump turn on every three hours for one minute at a time. that's 8 times a day, 8 minutes a day. With this system I am able to keep the tank at 85% all of the time. The timer allows me to set it to turn on up to 14 times a day...that's just too much. BTW, this whole system is under my tank and 100% invisible. And there are three nozzles hooked up currently, but only two are on. the two at either end of the tank actually cover 95% with no trouble. so everything gets misted and everyones happy! no more bad sheds or upper RI!

I can also hook up additional nozzles for my rack system and water all of my other snakes (nonpets, breeders).

I'll build you one for $200 if you want, it all ships inside the 5 gallon bucket. I would post pics, but they don't show much...just hoses running here and there.

Dane

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! lol I really think there is no such thing as too big, but there is such a thing as too much OPEN space. I have my baby in a 25 gallon but is absolutely covered in artificial plants and hides, he loves it and Im sure he feels safe. When hes bigger hes getting a humongo tank for sure as the center piece of my living room, but of course he will have so much foliage in the tank he will not feel insecure. I love designing new ways to make him a jungle and I sit and think what else I could add or change to make his home more realistic and comfortable for him.

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Originally Posted by missi182

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! lol I really think there is no such thing as too big, but there is such a thing as too much OPEN space. I have my baby in a 25 gallon but is absolutely covered in artificial plants and hides, he loves it and Im sure he feels safe. When hes bigger hes getting a humongo tank for sure as the center piece of my living room, but of course he will have so much foliage in the tank he will not feel insecure. I love designing new ways to make him a jungle and I sit and think what else I could add or change to make his home more realistic and comfortable for him.

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im the same way, if you like doing it with your bp you might try getting a hamster or something too its fun building them jungle gyms to run threw with 3 and 4 storys and bunch of differant rooms to go into and if you build it out of cardboard it does 2 things opens up what you can make alot and gives you a reason to build more as they chew up the cardboard and mess it up using it as a bathroom too

Big enclosures are not for novice BP owners and that unfortunately how most people start off... with huge cages.

The problem I have with large spaces is the regulation of husbandry aspects. The bigger the enclosure, the bigger the challenge to regulate things appropriately ESPECIALLY in glass. When I see people bragging how they have their ball in a 75gal in makes me shudder at what expense the snake is suffering from incorrect husbandry. Some put in the hundreds of $$ to make the enclosure suitable, but most don't .There are also cages that are made from better material than glass.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

Some put in the hundreds of $$ to make the enclosure suitable, but most don't .

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this is where i have to disagree with you i have a 70 gal and have the temps and all right where they need to be but outside of extra bedding and a few more things i put inside to heat it and keep the humidity where it should be i spent only 15-20 more on my 70 than my 20.
i have to budget alot im married

Dane, sounds like you worked really hard on your enclosure - I can't even begin to IMAGINE how long it takes you each month to break it all down and completely disinfect everything! :O

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

this is where i have to disagree with you i have a 70 gal and have the temps and all right where they need to be but outside of extra bedding and a few more things i put inside to heat it and keep the humidity where it should be i spent only 15-20 more on my 70 than my 20.
i have to budget alot im married

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I am kind of shocked by this, considering it would almost take $20 worth of bedding to fill that thing, let alone you purchasing the tank and a thermostat. Are you running a thermostat ?

Most larger tanks have the same floor space as a 40 gallon theyre just taller. In my experience with trying to get a 60gal to the right temps/humidity it was damn near impossible. Much of this had to do with the fact I live in upstate NY where winters are so dry and cold. If it was summer time I would have had no problem getting them where they needed to be but it wouldnt do much good bc come winter time it would go back to being whacked out. I wouldnt suggest any new BP owner use a glass tank be it 10g or 70g. Plastic is overall the better choice just because it holds humidity better and costs much less than glass. If you live in the southern states its probably much easier to keep temps/humidity up in glass but I bet its not as easy as plastic tubs.

Surprisingly it isn't that terrible. My plexiglass is attached to the screen, so that stays with it. The lights are the only annoying part, and thats a 3 second removal. once the top is off, the misting system is 100% not in the way. It is attached under the center top support, and the two side supports. The nozzles are 90 degree nozzles, so they are right up against their respective borders.

As for the rest of the stuff in there, the big log comes out, then each hide, then I scoop the bedding out and its all seperate. For cleaning I use a two bucket system. I have 2 5 gallons from pepboys and I fill one with the bleach/water mixture and the other with clean hot water. I first put each hide the first bucket and scrub a little with a moderately stiff brush, then I put it in the other bucket and give it the once over. There is little to no transfer of germs or bacteria because they are mostly killed by bucket 1.

Then putting it all back in is easy. I have a 10 gallon rubbermaid under the tank with aspen bedding and i just put that in with my scooper. done! Most of the time between cleanings, however, I'm of course spot cleaing the aspen, overturning it and adding new stuff. Whenever I change the water, I try and give the bowls a good cleansing. Surprisingly enough, with no mites and limited bacterial growth in the tank, and the new addition of the flowing water (mister), the water bowls are staying pretty clean on their own. I think they never get a chance to go down, because of the new water so they keep clean.

That tank looks and feels like a jungle...now only if balls were fromthe jungle, haha. I do have a Het Albino female coming from Vin Russo's acclaimed high contrast line, but I think she will be going in my rack sytem. The same with the high contrast albino male from Vin. Since they will be breeders, I want to make sure they will be regulated within +-.9 degrees F of their ideal temps. My lil thermostat will take care of that. Seymore is my family snake though, haha.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

I am kind of shocked by this, considering it would almost take $20 worth of bedding to fill that thing, let alone you purchasing the tank and a thermostat. Are you running a thermostat ?

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And just a response: For me, I can get a 10 lb bag of aspen (the size of a super large dog food bag) for $16, this will last me probably a year with month to month and a half changes. Howeverm the rest of the cost comes from a large heat pad ($40+), 2+ heat lamps and light bulbs ($5 for each cone at Walmart or Home Depot, $10-$25 per bulb. I use non-light emitting bulbs for round the clock heat, 75w on the cool side and 150w on the hot. I then add a ceramic bulb, 150w, at a distance pointed at the side of the tank to add a little ambient heat). The the plexiglass ($8 at menards) to keep the heat and moisture in. Then the humidty...that's kind of expensive, even when built yourself. But oh well...So, after about $230+ in stuff, you can do it relativley easy (in the winter, summer should be a breeze.)

Then I also have a 4' fluorescent light thats on a 12 hour cycle (8am-8pm).

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

I am kind of shocked by this, considering it would almost take $20 worth of bedding to fill that thing, let alone you purchasing the tank and a thermostat. Are you running a thermostat ?

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http://www.reptiledepot.com/substrate.html

25 quart bag $12.99 and i use 1/2 a bag plus half a coconut husk brick that goes for $3.49

but yes i do use a thermostat but i also use a thermostat on my 20 the only things that i added to my 70 that i didnt have to on my 20 are 2 extra feet of flexwatt and piece of 1/8 inch plastic that i cut to cover the screened top of the cage thinking bout it now i only spent $10 extra there. clearly i had to buy the cage but i was talking bout the heating and humidity aspect of it all i only spent 10-15 more

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Originally Posted by Danegerous

For me, I can get a 10 lb bag of aspen (the size of a super large dog food bag) for $16, this will last me probably a year with month to month and a half changes. Howeverm the rest of the cost comes from a large heat pad ($40+), 2+ heat lamps and light bulbs ($5 for each cone at Walmart or Home Depot, $10-$25 per bulb. I use non-light emitting bulbs for round the clock heat, 75w on the cool side and 150w on the hot. I then add a ceramic bulb, 150w, at a distance pointed at the side of the tank to add a little ambient heat). The the plexiglass ($8 at menards) to keep the heat and moisture in. Then the humidty...that's kind of expensive, even when built yourself. But oh well...So, after about $230+ in stuff, you can do it relativley easy (in the winter, summer should be a breeze.)

Then I also have a 4' fluorescent light thats on a 12 hour cycle (8am-8pm).

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cover your sides with a heat refleting matter and switch to 11 inch flexwatt, im only running 3 feet sides covered top sealed i have a heat lamp but only turn it on when my humidity goes up a little higher than i wanted from over misting from time to time.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

If you live in the southern states its probably much easier to keep temps/humidity up in glass but I bet its not as easy as plastic tubs.

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im in south florida (Cant get more tropical and south than that) and its a BEAR trying to keep humidity up even in our bins... forget trying to do it in a glass enclosure!

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

cover your sides with a heat refleting matter and switch to 11 inch flexwatt, im only running 3 feet sides covered top sealed i have a heat lamp but only turn it on when my humidity goes up a little higher than i wanted from over misting from time to time.

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wow, that's impressive. I wasn't trying to discredit you at all, I was just saying that's what I did. I was thinking about the reflective, but unfortunately I'm a little vain when it comes to the looks of the tank.

Here is my tank, the pics are kinda crappy since it just got done misting. But you get the idea.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2825/tank1yv2.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9797/tank2xq0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Danegerous

wow, that's impressive. I wasn't trying to discredit you at all, I was just saying that's what I did. I was thinking about the reflective, but unfortunately I'm a little vain when it comes to the looks of the tank.

Here is my tank, the pics are kinda crappy since it just got done misting. But you get the idea

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didnt mean anything bad just tryin to help your electric bill my lights killed me i was dte's best friend b4

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

didnt mean anything bad just tryin to help your electric bill my lights killed me i was dte's best friend b4

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haha, i can dig it!