Small rat vs. 3 mice

I've fed my adult bp twice. The first time, I fed him a small rat. He took it down without a problem. The second time, I went with three monster-sized mice (which he took without hesitation). We were having really nasty weather, and the pet store didn't have small rats, and their truck was delayed by the weather.

I think I may just stick with mice, as the cost difference is negligent ($4.50 for 3 mice/ $4 for a small rat), and if he decides not to eat for however long, there's no chance of me being stuck with a rat too big for him.

The rat put up much more of a fight than the mice, but seeing as how he took it down without injury or anything, I'm not really taking this into consideration too much. It's mostly just the thing about mice not getting too big.

Before I decide on this for good, is there ANY reason I should stick with a rat?

I always think that rats are "healthier". Ive read numerous places that rats are higher in protein, higher in blah blah blah. I believe it. but if you cannot get the rats, I do not see a problem with the mice.

I always say feed them what they'll eat. I have a male thats eats everything and anything rats,mice, asfr makes no dif...

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Originally Posted by TheMissingLink

I always say feed them what they'll eat. I have a male thats eats everything and anything rats,mice, asfr makes no dif...

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I agree completely, but I think rats have a higher "nutritional" value

Would there be any harm in alternating?

nah, you should be fine. think about the wild. you think they get a nice juicey rat eeeevery time?

That's a really good point. It's not like they're gonna pass up a rat coz they're in the mood for gerbil :) His feeding response is amazing, so I'm not too worried about him becoming really finicky or anything.

Maybe I will alternate, just for variety. The store where I'm buying the rodents will take them back, so if he doesn't want the rat, I won't be stuck with it.

How many mice a week would you consider too many?

He ate 3 on wednesday, and he was acting kind of hungry just now, so I prescented, he seemed interested, and ended up taking a small mouse. If he still acts hungry, I intend to offer him another (at most 2 more, that's all I have :) )

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Maybe I will alternate, just for variety.

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Feed what works and what is convenient for you, but try to keep it consistent, otherwise you might just end up with a picky eater.

I would also recommend you to stick with rats or mice, gerbils are more aggressive and have longer teeth which make them potentially more dangerous than mice or rats.

Also if your BP imprint on gerbils this could also be an issue if you had to re-home him in the future (most people will not feed gerbils or do not have access to gerbils)

While rats nutritional value is different than mice nutritional value there is no study to this date on BP nutritional requirements.

Gram per gram rats or mice it's all the same and one is not better than the other.

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He ate 3 on wednesday, and he was acting kind of hungry just now, so I prescented, he seemed interested, and ended up taking a small mouse.

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3 adult mice is the most I would feed an adult male ;)

Remember BP are opportunistic, because they can eat more does not mean they NEED to eat more to thrive.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

3 adult mice is the most I would feed an adult male ;)

Remember BP are opportunistic, because they can eat more does not mean they NEED to eat more to thrive.

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So, how may grams equals three adult mice? I'm really wondering what the gram weight is for an adult ball eating every 7 days...

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Originally Posted by starmom

So, how may grams equals three adult mice? I'm really wondering what the gram weight is for an adult ball eating every 7 days...

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depends on what size adult you feed

Large Adults
30 to 40 days of age. These mice have reached sexual maturity.

Length (Inches): 2.50 - 3.00*
Weight (Grams): 20.00 - 29.00

Extra Large Adults (XL)
5 to 6 months of age. These are retired breeder mice. These mice are almost twice the size of a young adult mouse. Perfect in every way but have reached the end of their peak producing ability.

Length (Inches): 3.00 - 3.75*
Weight (Grams): 30.00 - 50.00

I guess if you don't have a choice, Mice will do the job. To me, Mice are the fast food of the feeder world. Rats would be a much more meatier meal and offer more nutrition.

I also don't really believe in stack feeding. Snakes are not designed to eat multiple meals at once and 2 or 3 of the same type of feeder does not mean the break-down and digestion rate will be the same for all three.

One proper sized meal is better then many undersized meals in my opinion. On top of, I don't see 3 Mice being as good as one rat still.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

I guess I was really thinking about rat size...I think I'll start a new thread so I don't hijack this one!!

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

Would there be any harm in alternating?

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I don't think that there would be. I alternate with the 3 '07s that I still have. 2 are sold and I am waiting on better weather to ship them to their owners. I feed them mostly smaller rats, but I just fed mice today because I had no rats of the right size, and the price was right at the store. All 3 take either-or. I also figure this way, their buyers can feed them easier on either mice or rats, whatever they choose, as the snakes have taken both.
*If* you have a picky feeder though,, my advice would be to stick with one type of prey and get the snake feeding reliably.

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Originally Posted by starmom

So, how may grams equals three adult mice? I'm really wondering what the gram weight is for an adult ball eating every 7 days...

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3 adult mice are about 75 grams = small rat

I don't feed anything more than 1 small rat or 3 mice a week even to the largest females.

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Originally Posted by APBTOwner

I guess if you don't have a choice, Mice will do the job. To me, Mice are the fast food of the feeder world. Rats would be a much more meatier meal and offer more nutrition.

I also don't really believe in stack feeding. Snakes are not designed to eat multiple meals at once and 2 or 3 of the same type of feeder does not mean the break-down and digestion rate will be the same for all three.

One proper sized meal is better then many undersized meals in my opinion. On top of, I don't see 3 Mice being as good as one rat still.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

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How do you know that rats as oppose to mice offer more nutrition? There has never really been a study on the nutritional requirements of ball pythons. I don't know about being meatier but rats do have a higher fat content which would explain why bp's seem to gain weight faster on rats than mice.
The rats are better than mice therory is just opinion not really based on any fact.

I fed my bp 3 mice a week for three years and his vet, Dr. Scott Stahl, said he was one of the healthiest bp's he had ever seen.
I think you should feed what your bp will eat. The key is not so much WHAT to feed as to how much/little and how often.

I feed both. Though with breeding rats again most if not all mine will be switching over I have fed both mice and rats very often. For some of my girls I have offered multiple mice (never more then four). I really don't believe they'd need more then that even being an adult.

When my ball pythons were babies, I fed them mice just to get them going, but then switched to rats as soon as I could. It seems that the snakes grow faster when you feed them rats than mice. They're just bulkier.

I know that no scientific study has been done, but it's been my experience.

I feed all of my balls rats. I would also look for a rat breeder close to you. 4.50 is way to expensive. I get mine for a buck. Hope this helps.

It would make sense to believe you get more "wasted" weight with mice other than rats.

Also alternating might be ok as long as he eats whatever, but if he gets hooked on one thing(rats or mices) I can see a lot of wasted feeders if you are offering different things. Other than creating a possible picky eater that is the only really "concern" of alternating food.

Wow.. misinformation abounds! Yay!

All 40+ of mine are on mice, they thrive, they shed, they breed, the produce eggs, which in turn produce healthy offspring. If they didn't do these things, then I would change.

I have a few 2000g+ girls who get 3-4 mice a week(depending on the size of the mice), skipping a week here and there, and they gain weight wonderfully. My adult males get 2-3 depending on their size and the size of the mice. Hatchlings to yearlings get 1-2 depending on their size. To me, mice have more lean muscle mass without alot of fat, so in turn, my snakes gain alot of that lean muscle mass, with just a slight fat covering. No flabby snakes here ;)

Chris, if you can get mice more readily than a just-weaned rat every week, then go with that. Consistency is key. If he's a non-breeding adult male, he really doesn't need any more than 2 adult mice a week to thrive and maintain his weight. Remember, these are very sedentary animals who have incredibly slow metabolisms, and they don't need a whole lot of food to maintain.

I know there is nutrition posted on rodent pro's website, and mice are very close (If i remember this right) and even a little better percentages wise compared to weaner rats. This could be horrible wrong, but I still dont see the Vs. with rats and mice. Feed em whichever they'll take.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I know there is nutrition posted on rodent pro's website, and mice are very close (If i remember this right) and even a little better percentages wise compared to weaner rats. This could be horrible wrong, but I still dont see the Vs. with rats and mice. Feed em whichever they'll take.

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That's an awesome link, after checking it out it seems to me that the protein to fat ratio between an adult mouse and a juvenile rat are similar. It seems to me though in mice you'd be benefiting more from the calcium if you were to have a gravid female or something like that. I appreciate that post and I really think people should check it out. Know the value that your snakes are getting.

I guess it's nice to know the "value" your snakes are getting but that is relative to what? Fat, protein, calcium figures shown are good but since we really don't know what the needs per say are for snakes ie balls then your basing it on what we has humans require.
Who's to say that snakes may need a higher protein or fat content then we do.
Until there is some type of study done to show just what the daily,weekly requirements are than I guess it boils down to what ever gets you thru the night.

Rats, mice, etc. feed them what they will eat. You can raise and maintain a healthy bp on a diet of just mice or just rats or both.
And in the end isn't that all that is really our goal and important.

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Originally Posted by jotay

I guess it's nice to know the "value" your snakes are getting but that is relative to what? Fat, protein, calcium figures shown are good but since we really don't know what the needs per say are for snakes ie balls then your basing it on what we has humans require.
Who's to say that snakes may need a higher protein or fat content then we do.
Until there is some type of study done to show just what the daily,weekly requirements are than I guess it boils down to what ever gets you thru the night.

Rats, mice, etc. feed them what they will eat. You can raise and maintain a healthy bp on a diet of just mice or just rats or both.
And in the end isn't that all that is really our goal and important.

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I'm pretty sure they are basing the percentages on the amount of calcium to the mass of the rat. Not like a serving suggestion with the daily value, like you said, we dont really know what they need per se.

Don't read it like a daily value/ serving suggestion, but the percentage of fat that makes up the mass of the rat. Like a BMI measurement. ;) Does that make sense?

exactly. Per gram you are recieving more protein and more fat as well as more calcium in an mouse than in a rat. You have to read the chart like that. It's like would you prefer to eat a pound of iceberg lettuce which has no nutrients or a pound of spinach. Thier is just more nutrition in a mouse than in a rat.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Wow.. misinformation abounds! Yay!

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Personal information isn't misinformation. So mice work for you, yay. That's your personal information. That's what we're here for. Just because others differ from your opinion doesn't make it misinformation.

I personaly use rats. To me, there seems to be more "meat" to a rat then a mouse. Its easier to use 1 rat, then to use 3 mice. 1 rat = 1 strike, coil eat and done. If you use 3 mice, you got to do this three times. If you got a couple snakes I guess this would be fine, but if you got several animals, it would just be impractical.

The bottom line, however, is what works best for the animal and its keeper :)

Just FWIW, I feed over 40 Ball Pythons and it only takes me an hour max, usually 45-50 minutes.

pop one in tub, watch for strike on the snakes who are retarded, close tub, pop one in tub, close it, pop one in tub, try not to get face bitten, close it, etc etc.

RATS= more meat yum yum:8:

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

When my ball pythons were babies, I fed them mice just to get them going, but then switched to rats as soon as I could. It seems that the snakes grow faster when you feed them rats than mice. They're just bulkier.

I know that no scientific study has been done, but it's been my experience.

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Ive heard this from a few people lately. One theory for this is the rats have a higher fat/protein ratio so they develop more fatty tissue and get a larger girth.

I feed all my snakes rats or mice. Instead of larger rats I feed rat pups when they are available. Rat pups are 1.75 here and a rat is 6 and since rat pups dont bite back normally its the way to go for me. There usually larger than a large mouse too. Alot of times in one feeding theyll get on rat pup and one mouse depending on what the pet store has at the time. They all eat whatever moves in front of them pretty much.

natedog sounds like u got some good snakes, mine are picky

I think I'm going to get him a rat this weekend (if they have one small enough) and see how it goes. It took him a bit longer to kill the first rat than it does mice, but I guess that's probably normal.

Thanks to everybody for all the input. Even if there's not a consensus, I still dig hearing everybody's opinions.

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Originally Posted by HALEN16

natedog sounds like u got some good snakes, mine are picky

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I guess I am lucky, Ive never had trouble getting any of my snakes to eat. The first time I tried feeding my newest BP and my boa they didnt eat but ever since I never had a problem. I got my 2nd BP for free too because they couldnt get her to eat, but Ive never once had a problem with her, even her first feeding, she got the wrong end of the mouse but still took it the sec. I dropped it in. Even my hognose eats mice on cue. Ive switched from frogs to mice and back, never once made a difference as long as hes in a small container while eating.

Well, I tried a rat, and he didn't eat. I don't know that I'd call it a refusal, so much as he seemed a bit taken aback by how all-over-the-place the rat was.

I prescented for about 20 minutes (used the box the rat came home in), and he was very interested. After dropping the rat in, he nosed up to it, but ended up retracting into his hide. He did that several more times, until it became apparent he wasn't going to eat. I was kind of surprised, because he's never had a rodent in his enclosure for longer than 30 seconds without snapping it up.

So, does this sound like I should stick with the mice, or wait a week and give the rat another try? (I'm waiting a week to try again, regardless of whether it's a mouse or rat)