Facial Markings

A few weeks back I decided to undertake rat breeding to start supplying my own feeders. Well before I read about the cons of rats with facial markings I bought a female black dumbo blaze and a male hooded with a slight line on his head as well. I also got 2 female hooded rexes and a fawn hooded.

Well three weeks later my fawn had her litter (11) on Weds. and my blaze had her litter (13) a few hours ago.

Two of the blaze's were still born but not eaten.

My question is what should I do if any of the babys grow to have facial markings as well. Fed off early? Or frozen as pinks?

Any tips or suggestions are appreciated!

Adam

Are you conclusively basing the "necessity" to cull upon the presence of facial markings in the stillborn offspring (and subsequent live offspring)? :confuse:

Facial markings aren't birth defects...2 stillborn offspring out of a group of 24 aren't a reason to freak out, until you start selectively breeding within this trait & demonstrate that consistent deleterious effects are present.

Thats what I didnt know. From what I read I assumed facial markings are a really bad thing. Even though all my rats are healthy, If the newborns with facial markings will be healthy Id rather not cull them off

Where did you acquire your breeder stock? Did they come from lineages with known issues in regards to facial markings?

Keep in mind that my $.02 is strictly based on experience working with thousands of rats over the years, and mine are all fairly outcrossed, genetically speaking. I've never seen consistent issues/birth defects that could conclusively point back to facial markings, even when selectively breeding for blaze faces, etc.

Keep in mind too, that the two still borns might not have been still born and may have instead been accidentally smothered while mom was giving birth to the rest of the litter and was sitting/laying on them.

I've got three awesome breeders in my collection that most would advise not to breed. They've had robust, healthy litters, with hold backs from all three with no health issues presenting themselves.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/RatJune4.jpg

Two of her daughters that have gone on to become valuable breeders in my collection:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../Holdbacks.jpg

This baby is from the next adult female posted, and I can't bring myself to feed her off, so I'm holding her back. I'll breed her, and if there are any problems with her litter, will keep her as a pet. I need to get updated pictures of her, as she's about 200 grams now:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...nCuteBaby2.jpg

Her mom:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...02007/Yin3.jpg

And mom's sister:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...2007/Yang2.jpg

Nice rats robin! I wish I could find someone around here that has all sorts of different rats to choose from like that! I want some like the twins you have, awesome looking rats! :D

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Originally Posted by AdamJB

A few weeks back I decided to undertake rat breeding to start supplying my own feeders. Well before I read about the cons of rats with facial markings I bought a female black dumbo blaze and a male hooded with a slight line on his head as well. I also got 2 female hooded rexes and a fawn hooded.

Well three weeks later my fawn had her litter (11) on Weds. and my blaze had her litter (13) a few hours ago.

Two of the blaze's were still born but not eaten.

My question is what should I do if any of the babys grow to have facial markings as well. Fed off early? Or frozen as pinks?

Any tips or suggestions are appreciated!

Adam

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If you experience megacolon in the pairings from the blazed mother and her offspring, I would advise to not use them any longer.

Megacolon is common around the age of weaning, (3-4) and in severe cases will happen before that age. It can also be late onset, but you will never know unless you purposely hold back the rat with the highest amounts of irregular patterns and white since they have the highest chance of developing megacolon.

Megacolon inflicted rats will appear to have very large round bellies, and may be smaller than their litter mates.

When trying to prove a high white line doesn't have megacolon (other health issues), I'd suggest holding back at least four litters to six weeks in age. Then hold back a couple of those high white/high risk offspring to breeding age. Breeding them back to the high risk parent should bring out most of the negative health problems.

You may find your line of high whites have absolutely no health issues associated with being high white. I know that anytime rodent breeders are trying to prove out the health on a line they go through far more breedings than a couple of generations.

It seems extreme, but it's well worth knowing you are producing healthy offspring. It doesn't matter if you are breeding them for feeders or pets, quality is everything.

Beautiful rats by the way Rabernet. :)

I know nothing about the genes of these rats being that I got them from a few different pet stores in town.

I got most of my rats from work (PetSmart) after watching quite a while making sure they were healthy before I took them home. My fawn was one of them so far so good my mom and babies look great.

My blaze was from another store I found another dead baby. So, far three total deaths from her.

I was planning on holding back a few females as breeders *Crossing my fingers for another fawn hooded* And as michelle said quality is always important to me in all my animals feeders or not

Thanks for all the input!

If you can prove out some high-white rats as being MC-free for a bunch of generations, and are not squeamish about the possibility that their babies will have megacolon, then more power to you. I myself have never had MC in my colony. I started out a line that I still use, out of a high-white, black-capped female before I knew anything about MC. I still use granddaughters of hers to this day. I feel like I blissfully walked past a train wreck, though.. it could have been ugly. One of our members (was it Jo?) had a MC event in her colony. It is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy :(
Many who know about MC will advise not to breed high-whites; and if you do, to breed them to solids or Berks. Kinda like, how Paint horse breeders will never breed a high-white mare to a high-white stud.. lethal white.. dead babies. It is just too risky if you're just breeding for snake food; why play around with what could be considered weak; MC-prone genetics when you can go with something safer? I personally do not even buy rats anymore to add to my colony. I am too leary about inbred rats, whether they be berks, hooded, or whatever. I know where my stock has been, so to speak :) I will only get new females from one source, and I know where her rats have been too! I am not working with high-whites anymore. I have some hoodeds that are getting bred to my berk male only.
I would bet that many people are producing mC in their colonies and not even knowing about it, thinking that either their babies are nice and fat, or feeding them off before any detrimental effects happen.

Jen, not sure if you were referring to me, but I've held back offspring from my high white females and none of them have presented MC or gone on to have MC in their litters either. Nor have the ones that I've adopted out to pet homes.

I am always very watchful of my rats, as much as I am to my snakes - and if I had any concern about the health of the feeders I am producing, the female would immediately be pulled from my breeding stock and become a pet either in my home, or someone else's.

Here are the girls that haven't been fed off from Yin/Yang's last litters. I mainly have them left because I've had a lot of refusals the last few weeks - so now I'm looking for adoptive homes for them. None of them are showing any signs of MC at 7 weeks old

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/YYBabies.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../YYBabies2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../YYBabies3.jpg

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here are the girls that haven't been fed off from Yin/Yang's last litters. I mainly have them left because I've had a lot of refusals the last few weeks - so now I'm looking for adoptive homes for them. None of them are showing any signs of MC at 7 weeks old

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/YYBabies.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../YYBabies2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../YYBabies3.jpg

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I don't suppose you know how to ship rodents, huh? I want!

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I don't suppose you know how to ship rodents, huh? I want!

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lol I know I love those!

Oh Robin, beautiful girls!! How far is Marietta, GA from Jacksonville, FL?

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Originally Posted by Seneschal

Oh Robin, beautiful girls!! How far is Marietta, GA from Jacksonville, FL?

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About 5 hours :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I don't suppose you know how to ship rodents, huh? I want!

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Nope afraid not - sorry Justin!

Those rats are considered very high white. I know someone was asking in the feeder section what a high white rat looked like. There is a prime example of High white, split capped, notched cap, lightning marks, and there is a baldie hiding in the back. All high risk patterns from nearly blacked eyed white rats. A trait of dominant white spotting.