In-tank Feeders: Do you worry about substrate being swallowed?

Barring the debate about feeding in or out of the snake's regular tank, I wanted to hear from you all about concerns over swallowing substrate along with the rodent.

The majority of you will come back with, "Use newspaper." Yes, yes, use newspaper. Other ideas?

For example, I saw our Jungle Carpet Python swallow the TINIEST piece of moss last night, 1/8" long, single "hair." Then, I as he finished swallowing, a little bunch of moss somehow got stuck in his mouth - hanging out of the right side. He tried to get it out by rubbing his mouth on things, but made it worse. So I opened his tub and got it out of his lips for him.

We used to feed our ball python outside her tank in a cardboard box, but recently she's refused prey unless in her tub. Now she is refusing even that (only for a few tries - we are still at it). Once she starts eating regularly, I have a feeling it will be in her tank.

Thanks for input, ideas, etc. I have a feeling we might have to accept being converted to newspaper.

FYI, the JCP has moss and Aspen; the BP, KSB, and Rosy all have Aspen only.

A few decades ago I used to keep my corn snakes on sand. I figured that it was a nice looking substrate and if they swallowed some, no big deal it would just pass through. I ended up losing a number of small corns however. They would be eating fine, then they would quit eating and eventually start looking lumpy. When they died, I cut them open and found they were stuffed with sand. Even though the grains were small enough that it 'should' have been able to pass right though them, it appeared that the sand had stuck to the lining of the intestines and just built up over time until they were completely blocked. I switched to non particulate substrates after that.

I also have a friend who is a vet that did a necropsy on a burm. The burm quit eating and eventually lost a lot of weight, had no muscle tone and eventually had to be put down. The burm had been kept on wood chips for years and always ate a bunch of wood chips with every meal. But since he kept pooping fine it was assumed by the owner that they were just passing though and not causing any kind of blockage. After the animal died and was cut open, she found what was REALLY happening to those wood chips. Wood is not digestible so it doesn't go away, but it does break down into slivers. The slivers were piercing the intestinal walls and lodging in the muscle surrounding the stomach and intestines. After so many years of this the muscle looked like gray gelatin that was impregnated with millions of tiny wood slivers.

Mark

Mark, those are horrifying stories. Thanks for sharing.

I've read people saying that a snake's stomach acid is so strong to be able to digest bones and hair, that the wood chips get digested with no problem. And I've thought, yeah, but that stomach acid is designed to digest bones and hair, not wood. I mean, termites can't even digest wood without the help of some microscopic organism that lives in their gut. But I didn't really know for sure and I didn't want to argue the point when I thought it was most likely it just passed through whether it got digested or not.

So now I'm wondering....

I'd really like to hear if anyone has any more evidence that wood chips do not just pass through, digested or not.

I heard an ugly story about paper towels being impacted and now I only use papertowels on real small snakes that couldn't possibly
swallow them. I only use newspaper and have heard of people that use wood chips lay newspaper on top of wood before feeding and feed on newspaper to avoid impactions

Is there newspaper in the wild or paper towels. The sand is a bad example because most snakes in that habitat are specially designed to handle it.

My cali king had a tendency to get some cyprus in his mouth whenever he ate. My bp eats when i hold his dinner by the back of the neck and he strikes it only while im holding it with the tongs. I always do it above a flat rock he has in the tank. After that he sits on the rock to get the mouse down then USUALLY proceeds to his UTH to digest. I used to use a clay platter, like the ones that go under clay potted plants to catch excess water, to wiggle a mouse over so once he striked it he would sit on that and not eat substrate.

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Originally Posted by missi182

My cali king had a tendency to get some cyprus in his mouth whenever he ate. My bp eats when i hold his dinner by the back of the neck and he strikes it only while im holding it with the tongs. I always do it above a flat rock he has in the tank. After that he sits on the rock to get the mouse down then USUALLY proceeds to his UTH to digest. I used to use a clay platter, like the ones that go under clay potted plants to catch excess water, to wiggle a mouse over so once he striked it he would sit on that and not eat substrate.

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Nice ideas. Thanks.

I am leaning toward changing the BP to newspaper. Not sure what to do about the jungle. The substrate helps hold his branch in place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenmonkey51

Is there newspaper in the wild or paper towels. The sand is a bad example because most snakes in that habitat are specially designed to handle it.

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In the wild BP's don't live on a concentrated pile of wood chips(they live mostly in termite mound and rodent burrows) like they do in captivity so injesting wood is not an issue, in captivity they have no choice what substarte to live on and may injest wood chips with EVERY meal.
Not quite sure what your point is?

My corn is on eco-earth bedding, and the first time I fed him I just put the mouse in his tank. Turns out the mouse was a tad bit wet and he ended up dragging it through his substrate and eating mouse-a-la-substrate. Now I only feed him outside his enclosure in a separate tub.

My BP gets fed in her tank, and she has Reptibark for bedding. Occasionally she'll get one chip along with the mouse or rat. Now I'm thinking I might start feeding her outside her enclosure as well. I don't think the method of laying down a small clean surface in the tank works, unless it is the size of the entire tank, because of dragging around prey.

I posted last fall about this: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=53436

yah, my bp never drags his food around once he starts to eat but if he did, what i do now wouldnt really work. I would take him out to feed him if he did drag his dinner around.

I've been wondering the same thing, as far as I know, only cows and termites.. and horses.. ans I'm sure some other animals have the microbes to break down cellulose.. I've never read anything saying that snakes can do this, since they are not herbivores they have no use for breaking down plant fibers.

I feed both of my corns in a separate container, so I don't worry about them.. but my boas/pythons will only eat in the cage. I can get my 3 pythons and one of my boas to strike the food out of my tweezers, and I blow dry the rats before hand and I haven't noticed any aspen getting in their mouths when I do that.. But my biggest boa will not strike her food, I have to leave the f/t in her cage so I usually wipe an area clear of aspen and place her food down and she eventually eats it and doesn't get aspen on the rat.

We feed on cyprus mulch, the live ones dont drag any cyprus down with them, but the FT do. We put down a piece of card board if the snake doesnt strike. I'm not worried about it.

I used to have my corn on Bed-A-Beast which is basically dirt and I'd notice little bits getting into her mouth. After seeing that, I switched her back to newspaper. I never have problems feeding on newspaper so that is what I use for ALL of my snakes.

For cross reference, there's another thread about this in BP husbandry right now.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=60640

Greenmonkey, I think using wild snakes isn't the best example, as Raul pointed out, b/c the longest lived snakes are those in captivity with proper husbandry and veterinary care. There are no vets in the wild either.

I feed my BP in a tub half filled with aspen and then I put the dead mouse on the other half of the tub that doesn't have any bedding and he went after it today for his first meal and ate it on the side with no bedding then went and coiled up on the aspen until I felt he'd ate long enough ago to pick him up and put him back in his tank. He's now on his UTH digesting.