Valuable lesson learned after 5 years of Balling!

I learned a valuable lesson this week after keeping and breeding Ball Pythons for 5 years. Make to sure to sex your animals when you get them and periodically throughout the years.

On Wednesday, I got all of my adult females ultrasounded, to see how our breeding season was coming along. During the session, we ran across an '04 female, that I bought as a farmed baby in 2004 and have raised since, that didn't have any follicles. That was strange. Well a gentle squeeze near the cloaca everted some hemipenes. I was almost heartbroken, as she is a very dark chocolatey BOY, that was my top pick that year. It did make sense, since she/he was much smaller than the rest of the girls that we got the same year.

Well today is cleaning day, so I decided to double check all of my girls that are small for the age, or that haven't bred and I felt should have been breeding. The first animal that I came to was an '06 farmed girl that we called a chainlink. Really neat animal. Well low and behold, nice big penes and loaded with sperm plugs. Well I put that one in with a spare female, just to see if I could reproduce the look or not. Another heart breaker.

The biggest let down of all was still to come. I did have one female, maybe, that we tried to ultrasound, but she was very tense and balled up. She is a very shy animal. We couldn't see in her very well, so I just blew it off, and thought I would keep breeding her anyway. She is a 2005 66% Poss. Het Genetic Stripe. Well my Het. G-Stripe male has been breeding well all season, but would never touch her. Now I know why. She has big ole penes.

The moral to the story, is to make sure you are checking your animals periodically, because sometimes, when they are small, you may just mis-sex them. ISince it was so long ago that I got these animals, I can't confirm that I checked their sex when I got them. I am pretty anal when it comes to sexing my animals, but maybe I didn't double check these, since they all came from breeders that I have dealt with before, and I respect them and have never had a problem before. I don't blame them, and I am sure they will make things right. I just wanted to pass this on to others, in hopes of preventing another person from spending 2-4 years raising an animal, and have breeding plans in mind, only to find out that you spent alot of time and end up with no project.

I hope this helps just one person form having a big let down.

Sincerely,

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I learned a valuable lesson this week after keeping and breeding Ball Pythons for 5 years. Make to sure to sex your animals when you get them and periodically throughout the years.

On Wednesday, I got all of my adult females ultrasounded, to see how our breeding season was coming along. During the session, we ran across an '04 female, that I bought as a farmed baby in 2004 and have raised since, that didn't have any follicles. That was strange. Well a gentle squeeze near the cloaca everted some hemipenes. I was almost heartbroken, as she is a very dark chocolatey BOY, that was my top pick that year. It did make sense, since she/he was much smaller than the rest of the girls that we got the same year.

Well today is cleaning day, so I decided to double check all of my girls that are small for the age, or that haven't bred and I felt should have been breeding. The first animal that I came to was an '06 farmed girl that we called a chainlink. Really neat animal. Well low and behold, nice big penes and loaded with sperm plugs. Well I put that one in with a spare female, just to see if I could reproduce the look or not. Another heart breaker.

The biggest let down of all was still to come. I did have one female, maybe, that we tried to ultrasound, but she was very tense and balled up. She is a very shy animal. We couldn't see in her very well, so I just blew it off, and thought I would keep breeding her anyway. She is a 2005 66% Poss. Het Genetic Stripe. Well my Het. G-Stripe male has been breeding well all season, but would never touch her. Now I know why. She has big ole penes.

The moral to the story, is to make sure you are checking your animals periodically, because sometimes, when they are small, you may just mis-sex them. ISince it was so long ago that I got these animals, I can't confirm that I checked their sex when I got them. I am pretty anal when it comes to sexing my animals, but maybe I didn't double check these, since they all came from breeders that I have dealt with before, and I respect them and have never had a problem before. I don't blame them, and I am sure they will make things right. I just wanted to pass this on to others, in hopes of preventing another person from spending 2-4 years raising an animal, and have breeding plans in mind, only to find out that you spent alot of time and end up with no project.

I hope this helps just one person form having a big let down.

Sincerely,

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Tim, Have you ever sold an animal as a male and it turned out female? Or vice versa.. And what is up with the ultrasound? Palp them Girls!

Very good reminder to us all, Tim. I periodically check all my animals every few months - so far, knock on wood - everyone's still what they are supposed to be.

Awww Tim what a heartbreaker for you and Monica. It's a good lesson to all of us to doublecheck and occasionally recheck. Thanks for sharing what must have been a very disappointing day for you. :(

Oh crud. I am sorry about your letdowns :( I have nightmares about selling someone a snake and it being the wrong sex.

Ahh yeah. Tim, I feel you on that one. :(

I have had that problem on several occasions with females being males, which is why when I plan to breed, or when I plan to sell them, I ALWAYS check before sending them out or preparing to breed.

I'm sorry, buddy. It happens to the best of us.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Tim, Have you ever sold an animal as a male and it turned out female? Or vice versa.. And what is up with the ultrasound? Palp them Girls!

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John,
I have never sold one YET that has switched sexes. I quadruple check everything I send out, but I guess I haven't been diligent enough with stuff that I get in.

As for the ultrasound, I like to do it in January, to see those small follicles(10mm to 18mm), the ones I can't feel yet, so I can do some switcheroos if I have some males that aren't getting the job done. I gots plenty from 10-15, but not many that are palpable (over 20). Trust me, I do plenty of palpating.

Thanks everyone for the condolences. I mostly wanted to post to remind everyone to check out ther females. I find that the sex problem typically isn't the revers of my problem, since once you see a pene, it never goes away. I think some males as babies just have very small penes, and can possibly get missed when popped at a young age. I will definitely be rechecking all of my animals from now on once they hit about 400 grams.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

John,
I have never sold one YET that has switched sexes. I quadruple check everything I send out, but I guess I haven't been diligent enough with stuff that I get in.

As for the ultrasound, I like to do it in January, to see those small follicles(10mm to 18mm), the ones I can't feel yet, so I can do some switcheroos if I have some males that aren't getting the job done. I gots plenty from 10-15, but not many that are palpable (over 20). Trust me, I do plenty of palpating.

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Not doubting you Bro. Just asking. The sexing thing had me off though. Yes I have done the same thing. With hold backs or new animals. It just bothers me to think I could miss and send a customer the wrong sexed animal..

I learned that lesson this year myself. I had my pick female a BEAUTIFUL normal female who I got as a baby 1.5 years ago. Was cleaning cages and thought heck I will just put her with my big female for a second and when I went to get her less than 5 min later I found them LOCKED. I about died. The large female is my poss het albino and I had her paired (and seen a lock) with my het albino male. So my luck I will have an entire clutch of normal babies that I will have to call normal babies unless (hopefully) one is albino :(

Two lessons learned sex them and don't get lax on keeping them apart. I knew both of them to be healthy (I have had them both over a year) so I wasn't that worried. Now I am paying for it.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Not doubting you Bro. Just asking. The sexing thing had me off though. Yes I have done the same thing. With hold backs or new animals. It just bothers me to think I could miss and send a customer the wrong sexed animal..

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I didn't think you were doubting Bro. I guess I just worry about my customers more than I do myself.

Tim after talking to you and hearing of this I too went in and resexed all of my animals and all checked out that I could get my hands on. I have two very ill females that will take some doing to resex but I need to do it.

Best of luck I hope this all works out for ya and that all the rest of your projects run true for ya. :D

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Make to sure to sex your animals when you get them and periodically throughout the years.

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I learned this lesson recently myself :(

I've had it happen too - I've received a few "females" from a couple of big and/or seasoned breeders - then a year or so later you find out they are males - and you sit there trying to remember if you double and triple checked them - or was that the week that your probes went missing, or how could I have missed that, etc :weirdface

So far, only few animals came incorrect sex. Always happen with babies that came in lot, never happen with sub adult animals yet. I didn't sex every animals when they came in because I trust whom I got animals from.

It always sucks(to me) when my customers ask for female and got male in stead. I always end up giving them females that I plan to keep for myself. At least they understand that it's not my fault.

*Makes note* Sorry about all the boy parts! At LEAST you caught it now, and not in 2-3 years :oops:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I quadruple check everything I send out,

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Yea you even double checked my male spider when i picked him up :gj:.Sorry to read about your Ooops snakes :(.Here is to TONS of babies to make up for these Ooops :salute:

I had a reverse issue. I sold a male a while back that turned out to be a female. The buyer was actually quiet happy about it but still offered her back to me if I wished saying that he would take a male. In talking with him I found that he was willing to trade because he thought it was unfair to me even though he would prefer a female as he bought "him" (lol) because he was a very pretty male. I told him not to worry about it due to it being my fault. It taught me to re-sex my animals at least 3 or 4 times before even considering selling them, as well as two more once I find a buyer.

I feel your pain brother!
I learned this myself the hard way. I bought 2 het for albino females from a guy I trusted . I raised these two for 3 years and 1600 grams. this season I was stoked to finally breed them !
After repeated attempts The one female would never lock with my male. One day while cleaning I put what I believed to be a female into another males tub temporarily and they started to combat!
I couldnt believe it! I Probed it as male and popped out plugs, What a disappointment. 3 years of patients and hard work down the drain . This will never happen again!!!!!!!!!:taz:

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

I learned this lesson recently myself :(

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I know - I popped the snake in question myself this weekend - definitely a male - huge honking penes! :(

I figured I would hear some stories about this happening to others. I hope that everyone that read this went and checked all their animals again, and maybe caught one before putting 4 years into a project. Thanks for all of the replies, and it appears that I have succeeded in bringing to many peoples minds about checking the sex of their animals.

Hi,

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for making me paranoid about a whole new problem. :P

I now have to talk someone into visiting me to hold one of my snakes while I re-check "her".


dr del

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I would like to thank everyone in this thread for making me paranoid about a whole new problem.

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You know we are here to help :8:

No problem Derek. I only strive to help others feel the same way that I do.

j/k Bro. I didn't want anyone to frwak out, but merely to try and confirm that what they got is what they got. If you know what I mean.

CHAINLINK???? DON'T tell me thats the chainlink that came from ME?????????????

I'll take the rap if it was, I'm pretty anal about it as well lets see a youtube video of them peeeen's...........

Tim, I can one up in a better direction...... This story is verifiable if anyone wants proof........... I've got witnesses............

My original pair of pastels that bought, I think 2k for the male and 3 for the female, the female has given me 3 great clutches and is going to go again this year LOVE it. Well the male never would breed, I'd pop him or probe him 5 times each year. One side was always probed very short the other long. I could get a hemi out on one side, but not the other. Last year after 4 or 5 years of not ever producing I finally tossed another male in with him to spar him on. They locked up, I've seen this before with 2 100% for sure proven males, its just one dominating the other with a bit of gay lovin. Low and behold he/she laid eggs...............

5 pearly whites, a confirmed fertile hermaphrodite.....

I just checked some of my 2006 CH "girls" that I got last year....Most of them are 800-1000g or more now, but 2 are only 400g or so...Ya know what...Penes! Yup, Thanks Tim for the heads up....

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

CHAINLINK???? DON'T tell me thats the chainlink that came from ME?????????????

I'll take the rap if it was, I'm pretty anal about it as well lets see a youtube video of them peeeen's...........

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I wasn't going to mention any names, but since you drug yourself through it, that is the one. I hope you can find me another, because that animal is killer. I actually figured I'd try to breed HIM anyway, just to see. I'll shoot a pic of him breeding as soon as he locks-up.

Great Pastel story too. I'm glad it worked out Bro.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

I just checked some of my 2006 CH "girls" that I got last year....Most of them are 800-1000g or more now, but 2 are only 400g or so...Ya know what...Penes! Yup, Thanks Tim for the heads up....

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Charlie,
I don't know if I should say I'm sorry, or your welcome. At least you didn't put any more time in. This thread is officially now a success.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Charlie,
I don't know if I should say I'm sorry, or your welcome. At least you didn't put any more time in. This thread is officially now a success.

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No worries! I should say thank you to you....that explains why all the others are so much bigger..
Now I have a "pet" normal male...lol.....my first one!

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I wasn't going to mention any names, but since you drug yourself through it, that is the one. I hope you can find me another, because that animal is killer. I actually figured I'd try to breed HIM anyway, just to see. I'll shoot a pic of him breeding as soon as he locks-up.

Great Pastel story too. I'm glad it worked out Bro.

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WOW, well I guess even the best of the best screw up:D:D:D

Ridiculously sorry about that, I'll take care of you, you'll be in Arlington right? Now rather than beating you down at 2 am, I'll have to buy you a drink or two, wine and dine Monica and maybe bring a surprise.......







Didn't want to mention any names, ya right, that whole chainlink thing, knowing these are the only boards that I visit anymore, maybe I will still need to beat you down after you've got a nice complimentary meal in you.............;)

Neil that is wild about that female or male pastel. That is truely wild. Sometimes in babies you pop them and get a little red nub which I think are their scent glands and they can fool you into thinking they are males. My wife is actually pretty good at sexing them. She tought herself after watching the Sutherlands video while I was at work one night!

Brock :banana:

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

WOW, well I guess even the best of the best screw up:D:D:D

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Sometimes they do, but we forgive them all the same.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

One side was always probed very short the other long. I could get a hemi out on one side, but not the other......

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i post a similiar post on this. that why, i ask pop & probing. And probing is a 100% way to sex them. anyway, if 1 side short & the other is long, its a female?

if both short, a female. both long, males? im sure i got this correct except the 1 short, 1 long.. ??

I just tried pooping 2 of mine, But I was scared :soapbx:less for them :(

I tried 2 times each, didnt seem like I was doing it right so I quit.

I dont wanna to hurt them...

Thought I would bump this post up. I think I received a female instead of a male a few weeks ago. From a reputable company I might add. WAY too big to be popped, so he/she/it will get probed on tuesday. We'll see.

we've just had two of our female yellowbellys (raised as female for 2 years by us) decide they are going to be boys now.

It happens :(

We discovered this in the exact same manner we have our last two wrongly sexed snakes....giving a visiting herper probing lessons!!

How do you sex a 3ft bp? Not trying to change the subject.

The big guys can be popped just as easily as the babies.

Here's one of Ralph Davis' vids showing an adult being popped - YouTube - PRO Poppin.........yeah booyeeeeeee