bp still not eating.

I am still worried about my ball python. He hasn't eaten since Halloween, and its really starting to annoy me. I have tried live, f/t, pre-killed, brained...everything!

I recently bought a new uth for him, that runs at 90F and his lamp runs at about 89F, his cool side is about 84F. He's in a 20L tank.

I offered him a small f/t rat today, and was not interested in it at all, so I heated it up some more, didn't want it, decided to brain it and he still wasn't interested. :(

Its really starting to cause me stress, I have lost over 7 Rats/Mice now :mad:, bought a new uth, and I am now considering trading him for another milk/corn snake.

I haven't had this problem with my corns/milks...only him.

Here is a very recent picture of him.
http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs25/300...uedolphins.jpg

What am I doing wrong?? :rage:

Hi,

What is his weight holding up like?

Did you stop all handling and try to increase his feelings of security?

Does anything else seem "off" in his behaviour or anything?

Have you tried a different type of prey item such as a mouse?

Can you remind us what size he is etc?


dr del

A lady once told me if they "go off their feed", to try a gerbil instead of a rat or mouse. Kitana ate a gerbil once, but then again, she'll eat anything.:rolleyes:

How old is your bp?
How long have you had him ?
Where did you get him from?
Has he gone on fast before?

Mine goes on fast every year from Nov/Dec until March/April and has done it since he was a yr old.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

What is his weight holding up like?
Did you stop all handling and try to increase his feelings of security?
Does anything else seem "off" in his behaviour or anything?
Have you tried a different type of prey item such as a mouse?
Can you remind us what size he is etc?

dr del

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He lost weight from the Halloween to Christmas, started out as 410 grams down to about 370ish, but since has jumped to 483, which I believe is just water weight. He weighs more, but his girth has dropped, by how much I'm not sure. There is extra skin hanging on the sides. Last time I measured him he was about 34" long.

I have stopped all handling with him, I haven't done anything to make him more secure...

Well, he doesn't seem very active anymore, but recently, he has had his head out of his hide, and moving around a lot more.

I have tried both mice and rats. I bought him as a live feeder, easily converted him to a f/t feeder in May/June with no problems, then switched him to f/t rats in early september with no problems.

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Originally Posted by amystours

A lady once told me if they "go off their feed", to try a gerbil instead of a rat or mouse. Kitana ate a gerbil once, but then again, she'll eat anything.

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As much as I want to try a gerbil, my mom is firm against me feeding him ANYTHING except rats/mice. No amount of convincing will get me around it. :/

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Originally Posted by jotay

Re: bp still not eating.
How old is your bp?
How long have you had him ?
Where did you get him from?
Has he gone on fast before?

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He is about 1.5 Years Old.
I have had him for 1 Year 4 Months.
I got him from a pet store, who in turn buys their snakes from a fairly local breeder. Its a great store and have bought all my herps from them.
He has skipped a few meals here and there, but is generally a great eater, but has never ever skipped more then two in a row.

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Originally Posted by Malaika

As much as I want to try a gerbil, my mom is firm against me feeding him ANYTHING except rats/mice. No amount of convincing will get me around it. :/

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With all due respect to your mother you're talking about the life of your pet. I won't tell you what you should do but there's an old saying... "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission"

Would it be impossible to obtain a gerbil and feed it without her knowledge? I don't want to encourage someone to lie to a parent, but all things considered....

You could tell her it's one of those ASF rats :)

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

Would it be impossible to obtain a gerbil and feed it without her knowledge? I don't want to encourage someone to lie to a parent, but all things considered....

You could tell her it's one of those ASF rats :)

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Unfortunately for me I don't have a drivers license yet, so anywhere I go she tags along.
And I can't say I just want him as a pet and be like oops, because than it would be a certain no, as I am highly allergic to small animals and just feeding my snakes I have to wear gloves and a mask. :(

Do you think that a gerbil will make the difference? If so, I can always print this out and show her how vital it actually is.

I don't know firsthand.

I have heard a lot that gerbils are their favorite food, though, that a gerbil is essentially like prime rib to a bp. I've also seen people recommend that if your snake gets lost, that you use a dead gerbil to bait them. Never a dead mouse or rat, they always say gerbil. I *think* somebody makes a product that dusts on a rat or mouse to make it smell like a gerbil.

I would tell you not to give up on bps, though. They are notoriously finicky eaters.

I would say keeps his temps 82-83 cool and 90-92 hot and keep humidity around 50-55. Leave him alone only opening the cage to give fresh water and clean.
Get a mouse and pre scent the room and his cage then drop it in for about 10 mins if he balls up and stays unresponsive I would take out the mouse and wait another 7-10 days and try again.
Maybe next time try a f/t and if no strike leave it in the cage over night right at the entrance to his hide.

He may just be one of the small % of bp's that go on fast every winter.

Have you taken him to be check by a vet and had a fecal done?

Anorexia is usually a symptom of a deeper problem, such as improper housing, internal parasites, stress, etc.

I would get him into a smaller enclosure such as a 15qt tub. Get your temps up on the warm side to 94-95, cool side 83-85. Put down newspaper, a small water bowl and a small hide. Leave him COMPLETELY alone for 1-1.5 weeks, and then offer a live medium adult mouse or a rat pup. If he doesn't take it within 5 minutes or so, take it out and repeat the next week.

450g at 1.5 years old is pretty small. I would get his next bowel movement to the vet to have it checked for parasites just in case. If he's clear of those and healthy, then I would honestly just switch him to a plastic tub and put him in a dark, quiet place. He may not be feeling secure enough in the tank.

There's no need to resort to gerbils/asf rats/etc until you fix the husbandry problem and possible health problem(ie internal parasites if he has them).

I have several that 'fast' during winter months and others that eat all year round....

for the ones that don't eat, if they start to lose weight and show no interest...i raise their temp a couple of degrees and that usually takes care of the problem....i think it tricks them into thinking the weather is changing and prompts them to eat....return temps to normal after 2nd feeding

if they STILL don't eat, I return their temps to normal, and try offering each week....normally, they eventually eat

only once did I try a gerbil....and she ate it, but now she won't eat anything but gerbils or ASF rats...

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Originally Posted by OhBalls

only once did I try a gerbil....and she ate it, but now she won't eat anything but gerbils or ASF rats...

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Man, you'd almost have to start breeding gerbils. You'd go broke buying the damn things otherwise.

It's a shame they're so pricey, coz I've disliked gerbils my whole life (don't know why) and would really enjoy watching some get eaten :D

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

Man, you'd almost have to start breeding gerbils. You'd go broke buying the damn things otherwise.

It's a shame they're so pricey, coz I've disliked gerbils my whole life (don't know why) and would really enjoy watching some get eaten :D

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I breed ASF rats....no stink to the little stinkers :D

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Originally Posted by OhBalls

I breed ASF rats....no stink to the little stinkers :D

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Are they expensive to buy like gerbils or hamsters? I'd never heard of them until I got on here.

I agree with the above post by Satan...It sounds more like security issues to me. When you switch to a smaller enclosure try putting a lot of crummpled up newspaper in with him. I mean fill the enclosure up with paper. This will give him an overwhelming sence of security. This has worked with dozens of my balls that were not good eaters. I have been able to wean almost all of them off the newspaper but it took time. Bottom line, with the extra security, they ate.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Anorexia is usually a symptom of a deeper problem, such as improper housing, internal parasites, stress, etc.

I would get him into a smaller enclosure such as a 15qt tub. Get your temps up on the warm side to 94-95, cool side 83-85. Put down newspaper, a small water bowl and a small hide. Leave him COMPLETELY alone for 1-1.5 weeks, and then offer a live medium adult mouse or a rat pup. If he doesn't take it within 5 minutes or so, take it out and repeat the next week.

450g at 1.5 years old is pretty small. I would get his next bowel movement to the vet to have it checked for parasites just in case. If he's clear of those and healthy, then I would honestly just switch him to a plastic tub and put him in a dark, quiet place. He may not be feeling secure enough in the tank.

There's no need to resort to gerbils/asf rats/etc until you fix the husbandry problem and possible health problem(ie internal parasites if he has them).

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Okay, as soon as I can, I will try to move him into a tub, I'll stop at walmart tomorrow or monday.

Thanks.

I've had balls fast for months as well without losing much weight. One thing I do not suggest doing is trying hamsters. After 8 months, mine took a hamster without any hesitation, and he refused all else for the following 6 years. I just recently got him to take rats again.

my BP wasn't eating for 4 months either. i was confused as to why she wasn't, because everything in her enclosure was perfect, at least during the day. i soon realized that during the night it dropped down to around 65, which is obviously too low. i moved her too a warmer room that also had a space heater, and after a couple of weeks she shed and just took a mouse 4 days ago. so berfore you move it around and possibly stressing it out and trying gerbils (if permitted) look at the temperature first thing in the morning and if its low thats more than likely your problem. if not then good luck and just keep watching its weight

I chose a thermometer/hygrometer that displays the current temp & humidity, plus the high and low of each specifically for the reason listed above. I think it was $3 more than the other one, and makes monitoring way easier.

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

Are they expensive to buy like gerbils or hamsters? I'd never heard of them until I got on here.

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Sorry, I would not know...the woman who breeds rabbits for our burms gave us 12 as she was over ridden....

although I have seen some females go for 30 dollars...but here, they have to have a permit for them which may explain the price

$30 for a GERBIL???

That's obscene.

Hi,

If your mother is dead set against feeding any other rodents than rats and mice then I think you should try and work within that - then if it doesn't pan out she will know that you respected her wishes and tried.

How does she feel about frozen chicks?

Two of mine like them and, while I am not convinced they would be good as a major part of the diet, I don't think one every now and again would be bad.

On the gerbil front if you know anywhere that has them you could ask for some used bedding and try that as a scenting/fake nest idea.



dr del

Could my ball just be going off feed since its winter time? I haven't changed anything about his husbandry, his cage, temps since I have gotten him, only I got the UTH, but he stopped feeding way before then. He is in a 20L tank, and thats what hes been in since day 1.

My mom, said we can bring him to the vet as long as I pay for all the cost and medicine. I will see if I can get him into the herp vet.

20L tank ... that's tiny IMO :( I keep my two BP (one 07 and one 06) in a 430L tank...

20L does not stand for 20 liters, at least not here in the US, and since the poster's info says they are from Connecticut...

20 gallon tanks come in 2 different shapes, one that is taller and one that is longer. They can be referred to as 20T and 20L, or a show tank and a breeder tank. The 20L is a reasonable size for most young BPs, although some hatchlings will feel too insecure in an enclosure that big, and it is probably too small for adults.

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Originally Posted by kc261

20L does not stand for 20 liters, at least not here in the US, and since the poster's info says they are from Connecticut...

20 gallon tanks come in 2 different shapes, one that is taller and one that is longer. They can be referred to as 20T and 20L, or a show tank and a breeder tank. The 20L is a reasonable size for most young BPs, although some hatchlings will feel too insecure in an enclosure that big, and it is probably too small for adults.

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Thank god :)

I'm having the same problem with mine. I've had him for about 3 weeks now...he's eaten once scince I got him. I've been told by the vet to try a gerbil because it's their natural food source in the wild. He's starting a shed so I'm not trying it until he's done. If you try it let me know if it works.

Thanks everyone for your help!!! :bow:

I checked all the temperatures and everything was still perfect. Day and Night.

I brought him back to the petstore about 1 hour ago, hoping to at least get some credit for him, but what do you know, she threw a mouse in the box with him, WHAM, and ate it like a pro.:gj:

Just hoping know he will be able to keep it down. :)

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Originally Posted by Malaika

....she threw a mouse in the box with him, WHAM, and ate it like a pro.:gj:

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I'm not an expert, but that would lead me to believe he feels insecure in his enclosure.

are you feeding him in his eclosure? he may not feel secure.

my girl was "trained" to eat in a seperate container from the one she lives in ( her substate could be eaten and cause problems which is why i feed her in a different container ). if i've EVER had issues getting her to eat (shes on F/T ) its either because

1. the rodent is not warm enough

or

2. she dosent feel secure enough. i feed her in the bathroom (no carpet ) and put the rat in, close the lid on her feeding container, turn the lights off and close the door. she always takes them for me.

you could try covering 3 sides of the tank with dark paper, to help him feel more secure. i'd also highly suggest getting a fecal float done.

also, i've heard it is advised against to feed gerbils, hampsters and chicks.no gerbils because they're expensive and difficult to find and balls can imprint on them, meaning if you start feeding them it will be VERY difficult to switch them to something else which if you ever need to get rid of your animal, could make it very difficult. no hampsters because they're high in fat (?) and no chicks because they arent very nutritional for balls and they can cause their stools to be very runny. again, this is all hearsay, i wouldnt quote this directly. but i'd definately do some research before switching the prey item.

good luck with him!

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Originally Posted by clockwork

are you feeding him in his eclosure? he may not feel secure.

my girl was "trained" to eat in a seperate container from the one she lives in ( her substate could be eaten and cause problems which is why i feed her in a different container ).

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Well, I have tried feeding him in and out of his enclosure, the same ones he has always fed in. He has been feeding in a separate enclosure since I have gotten him. I generally tried outside his enclosure.

I don't know why he just magically took it at the store, and not at home, I changed nothing, he ate in the same box as always, I thought the travel would stress him out, but did the exact opposite.

I will grab some construction paper and put it on his tank..

Just like when you go to the mechanic and the car is fine.

Glad he ate for you.
What did you bring him to the store in? The box?
Maybe being in a small enclosure made him feel secure enough for his appetite to get his attention.

The reality is if the ambient temps dip below lower 80's in the winter, many will go off feed or eat sparingly. In a tank security, temps and humidity(also important) can be real difficult to control especially come winter time.

I remember reading somewhere that a person had had success with more than one of their balls, of when they go off feed, take them for a car ride, and then they'd eat. They said something about the stimulation of the new experience triggering a feeding response, I think.

I do not remember where I saw this, so I have no idea if it is good advice or not. Maybe one of the more experienced members can comment?

I have normally fed my BP in his enclosure but he hasn't eaten in months and hasn't even shown much interest. I tried something different and put him in a small rubbermaid container and left him there for a little bit while cleaning out his cage and then offered him a warm thawed mouse and he finally took it. I was getting worried because he hadn't eaten in so long, although he didn't lose much weight. He spent the rest of the night cruising around his cage, probably looking for another mouse. I don't know if the change of scenery stimulated him to eat or not but it is worth a try.

Just thought I would give everyone an update on my ball.

I bought 2 Female Mice today from petco, put the snake in his feed box, threw in one of the mice, didn't take it, so, I thought I would bring him in the basement as thats were I used to do my live feeding. Threw the mouse back in the box, took it like a pro. Swallowed it, and threw in the next and took that one too. :D
Maybe the basement made a difference? Possibly because its cooler and drier?

I have since start of this post, put black construction paper on three sides, and part of the front, and raised the temps by 2*F.

Thanks for everyone's help since this has all started back in October. I am sure he will regain his lost weight after this meal, and start growing again. :snake:

Do you stimulate him before you feed? I would lean towards him smelling the mouse getting him into feedind mode and thats why he took it. Just something to think about.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Do you stimulate him before you feed? I would lean towards him smelling the mouse getting him into feedind mode and thats why he took it. Just something to think about.

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I do, I leave the container of the mice on top of his cage for 30 minutes or so, and he usually pops his head out in a few minutes.

I recently purchased a new baby ball from a PETCO. Id hadn't eaten for a week and I started to worry. It was marked down which can be a sign that the store was trying to get rid of a sick animal. Anyway, being somewhat experinced in herp raising ( I currently own a healthy three foot nile monitor which is about five that i raised from a baby) , I decided the snake would have a better chance with me than being returned to the store. After considering time of year and husbandry issues, I decide to force feed a week into owenership. Now had I owned the snake for a while and saw it eating and drinking, I would have held off of force feeding. But it being anew acquisition and not knowing when it last ate or drank, I decided to go for it. I took the flat end aof aforks handle and GENTLY pried open the mouth and worked a fuzzy into its mouth. It didnt take much and when it was about half way in its relfexes took over and it took the mouse down. Ive been watching it and it has kept it down, which had it ben sick I dont think it would have done. Daily I have given it water by dropper mixed with a good herp vitamin. I feel better that it has eaten and may wait a week and if need be force feed one more time before taking it to a vet. With a couple of meals in and it being properly hydrated, I would expect it to strat eating on its own in the near future. I welcome feedback on my take on things and appreciate any suggestions.