Kiss your hobby goodbye!!!! USFW Proposed ban!!!!

Folks this is SERIOUS!!!! US Fish & Wildlife is proposing a ban of ALL SPECIES in the genera of Python, Boa & Eunectes. If this is passed, it will ban all interstate trade (that means buying & selling!) or importation of those genera (genera = plural for "genus") in the private sector.

Eunectes = Anacondas
Boa = includes ALL of the Boa constrictor species...yes, your Colombian boas, your red-tails, Argentine, Bolivian, Brazilian...anything whose scientific name starts with Boa constrictor...

And folks, the genus "Python" encompasses the following:

Ball pythons
Angolan pythons
Bloods & short-tails
Burms/rocks
Retics
Timors

This is SERIOUS! This is FOR REAL!!! It is time for us ALL to have a voice & make our feelings known in a polite, respectful yet FIRM way!

I know linking to other sites is usually a no-no, but there is an entire write-up on this at Pet Hobbyist:

http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/...hons-Boas.html

The time to act is NOW!!!!!!! If this goes through, herpetoculture as we know it is going to RADICALLY change, and NOT for the better! No more big reptile shows, because out-of-state vendors wouldn't be able to attend. No more buying your snakes from a breeder out of state. No more herpetoculture as it is right now!

What do we do to help keep this from happening?

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Originally Posted by clipclopclip

What do we do to help keep this from happening?

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Here is a link to info about the proposal and contact info if you would like to comment on the issue. Like Kara stated, this is something we should all take seriously and be proactive on.
http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/...9&entry_id=202

Speechless. I'm gonna read through all this. Be back.

From what I got from a very quick read over. I'll be reading it in depth over the coming week you can't respond by any electronic means i.e. email or fax. You need to write a letter and either mail it or have it hand delivered to the address specified (and they reserve the right to publish your personal information which I'm not overly impressed about :mad:).

I can see it now, illegal drug I mean snake trafficers. Instead of hidden compartments for drugs there will be hidden rack systems so breeders can sell their reptiles to out of staters. Instead of cops busting marijuans grow houses they will look at electric bills to determine who is using heat tape and radiator heaters. This sucks.

Ok, from what I've read on these...it's saying that we can no longer bring these species into the US. It seems to be solely attacking importation or exportation in or out of the US and it's properties. Has any one asked about this state to state thing? It sounds to me like it's being read wrong. This isn't good no matter what way it's put, but it all boils down to those who've release Burms into the Everglades. The lacy law is a import/export of wildlife that is potentially dangerous to ecological balance of a given area, which is what has happened to the everglades. Typical, a few dum-dums are ruining it for many others.

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Ok, from what I've read on these...it's saying that we can no longer bring these species into the US. It seems to be solely attacking importation or exportation in or out of the US and it's properties. Has any one asked about this state to state thing? It sounds to me like it's being read wrong.

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An injurious wildlife listing would prohibit the importation into, or transportation between, States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territory or possession of the United States by any means, without a permit.

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No, it looks like this is for real. The new law would include banning transportation between states.

No, it's also looking at interstate commerce - from state to state within the US as well!

"An injurious wildlife listing would prohibit the importation into or transportation between, States, The District of Colombia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territory or possession of the United States by any means, without a permit. Permits may be issued for medical, educational or zoological purposes."

YIKES!

This is stupid, yet another sad attempt of people who do not understand snakes trying to ban them:mad: Like my ball python is ever going to eat me:rolleyes:

I already posted this on 2 other forums and my letter will be sent next week.

How far will this government go??? :mad:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

This is stupid, yet another sad attempt of people who do not understand snakes trying to ban them:mad: Like my ball python is ever going to eat me:rolleyes:

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That's not the primary focus - the primary focus is potentially invasive species that may have an impact on our native ecosystems. This is where RESPONSIBLE HERPETOCULTURE comes into play! If they weren't finding Burmese pythons in the Everglades, this wouldn't have as much validity.

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Originally Posted by KLG

That's not the primary focus - the primary focus is potentially invasive species that may have an impact on our native ecosystems. This is where RESPONSIBLE HERPETOCULTURE comes into play! If they weren't finding Burmese pythons in the Everglades, this wouldn't have as much validity.

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Oh, i see now. I think they should regulate the sale of bigger snakes that have more of a chance of being let go because of size and houseing issues, but there is no reason for smaller ones.

I also see stray dogs all over the place, and i do not see them trying to ban dogs?

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Originally Posted by KLG

That's not the primary focus - the primary focus is potentially invasive species that may have an impact on our native ecosystems. This is where RESPONSIBLE HERPETOCULTURE comes into play! If they weren't finding Burmese pythons in the Everglades, this wouldn't have as much validity.

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I'd also then like to see a ban on all dogs and cats as the 40 million cats in the state of florida cause a million times the problem of any and all reptiles. Go Peta, human socity PUKE PUKE

Everyone must spread the word of this and we all must actually write letters. I've got nearly 700 email address in address book and everyone of you will be getting a letter shortly. Please pass this on to everyone your address books.

Thanks

You can submit your comment here.

My comment:
Regarding the proposed snake ban,

I think that we should be aware of the broad variety of snakes that would fall
under the current description. The large snakes can be extremely dangerous, and
I can understand an interest in regulating them to keep them out of the hands of
inexperienced keepers.

On the other hand, small snakes like Ball Pythons, some Carpet Pythons, and Boas
make wonderful pets and are less dangerous than a kitten. They require specific
conditions to survive, making wild populations impossible in most of the United
States, and are only a danger to the small rodents we consider pests.

I'm a Ball Python hobbyist, and plan to grow my hobby of breeding beautiful
snakes into a business I can fully focus on when I reach retirement age. I
ask that you not crush this dream.

Thank you for considering my input,

Jeff Flanagan

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Originally Posted by FIREball

Instead of cops busting marijuans grow houses they will look at electric bills to determine who is using heat tape and radiator heaters. This sucks.

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I was already concerned about getting my door kicked in by DEA thugs for electrical use, but hoped they'd calm down when I explained about the snakes. Now I'll be hauled off in the night by Fish & Wildlife for sure.

What the....

This has got to the the biggest sack of horse poop I've ever heard of! Believe you me I'll be passing this around and I'll be sending them a letter, thats for sure!

Will someone post the address of where we should mail the letter?

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Originally Posted by PigsnPythons

Will someone post the address of where we should mail the letter?

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Attn: RIN 1018–AV68, Division of Policy and Directives Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 222
Arlington, VA 22203

You letter MUST contain your name and address (no anonymous letter) and MUST be sent by

April 30, 2008.

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Originally Posted by PigsnPythons

Will someone post the address of where we should mail the letter?

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HERE is the address
U.S. mail or hand-delivery: Public Comments Processing,
Attn: RIN 1018-AV68, Division of Policy and Directives Management, U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service, 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 222,
Arlington, VA 22203.
Instructions: We will not accept e-mail or faxes. We will post all
comments on http://www.regulations.gov. This generally means that we
will post any personal information you provide us (see the Public
Comments section below for more information).

DO NOT GO JUMPING YOUR GUNS WITHOUT FIRST COMPLETELY READING THE GUIDELINES. MAKE YOUR LETTER COUNT, BE RESPECTFUL AND HAVE OTHERS REVIEW YOUR LETTER BEFORE SENDING IT IN.

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DO NOT GO JUMPING YOUR GUNS WITHOUT FIRST COMPLETELY READING THE GUIDELINES. MAKE YOUR LETTER COUNT, BE RESPECTFUL AND HAVE OTHERS REVIEW YOUR LETTER BEFORE SENDING IT IN.

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Good Point!!

Kara, I'm contacting Bob, Mike, and Jay about this; and working on my letter as we speak! I cannot believe they're going to this extent now. This is insane! I'll do everything I can!

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Originally Posted by KLG

That's not the primary focus - the primary focus is potentially invasive species that may have an impact on our native ecosystems. This is where RESPONSIBLE HERPETOCULTURE comes into play! If they weren't finding Burmese pythons in the Everglades, this wouldn't have as much validity.

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The other thing they're not looking into is the damage that the hurricanes have done, to allow this. They've released a multitude of species into the everglades that could establish themselves, including various species of primates, various mammal species, various species of monitors, elapids, various other Pythons including Reticulated Pythons, African Rock Pythons and rare species. The most common and notable though is the Burmese, due largely to their frequent occurrence of finds, as well as their noted feeding on large Floridian predators and mammals, and discoveries of clutches, juveniles, and younger animals (Noting they have established themselves and are thriving). All its doing though, is giving fuel to their fire. Really all we can do now is fight it :(

My hobby is my life. It would almost kill me if they took it away.:(
Why cant they worry more about all the gangs and people selling meth to kids and crap like that. I also agree that their are worse things running lose than snakes. And not just Cats and dogs. In the everglades there are alot of feral pigs runnung around causing alot of damage. There are so many other invasive species causing more damage and have been there way before snakes came in to the picture. It is unbelieveable that they are trying to pass this.:mad:

On this note Kara, I've had some newb knot it all aggree'ing with this ban, and restriction, saying it could be one of the best things for this hobby, on Bobs forum. Same newbie know it all that went heads up with me on AfRocks... I'm hoping majority of the Herp community pulls through and fights this...

Where will this end? If their arguement is about animals getting out and becoming a threat to native wildlife.. Then.. when will they try to ban cats. Dogs. Horses. Chickens.. all damn animals on earth. Wow, I am heated right now. I will write up a polite, non-confrontational letter though, because getting angry will only make us sound like a bunch of what many perceive snake keepers to be; freaks. :( :( :(

The thing that worries me though. If I were to use my actual address and the ban does go into effect; are they going to knock on my flippin' door looking for snakes? Monitor me for electrical use? Threat me like a marijuana grower with helicoptors in my yard? Time to get a PO box..

Guys do not send letters with threats. Be smart about this. Send letters that show the reasons why this hobby is important.

If this did pass. The outcome would be this.

National shows=DEAD
Bigger shows=DEAD(only locale breeders would and could go)
Online sales=DEAD

Well for the species they list.

This would be the beggining of the end.

Now IMO this can and will be faught. As do you honestly know how much in tax dollars states would lose from this ban?

Exactly Gary. This can be fought logically, morally, and respectfully. I have contacted both Bob Clark, and Mike Wilbanks about this and they are working on it. I cannot call Jay for another couple hours, due to the time zone, but as soon as I can, I will get on it!

To be honest I do not see this all happening. just like in Ohio it was brought up then shot down.

Now could it? Yes? But if everyone keeps their heads on straight this can be faught. Take your time writing your letters. Do not worry about the address thing. Put your address down. If this bill does pass there will have to be a grandfather clause. Shoot do you know how many pythosn and boas are here in the states?

I think what the F&W are after is the importing. But believe me when I say. the breeders are going to step up. But we also need the hobbiests to step up. Be thoughtful in your letters.

There is a better way to clean up Florida. Florida is the reason for this. Just like Kara said.

I will definetley send a letter...
I understand banning anacondas, burmese pythons and retics, because they get realesed very often but not ALL species of boa and pythons should be banned! Very unfair :mad:

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Originally Posted by BallPythonsRule

I will definetley send a letter...
I understand banning anacondas, burmese pythons and retics, because they get realesed very often but not ALL species of boa and pythons should be banned! Very unfair :mad:

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Banning the species you listed will only open the door to ban the rest.

banning does nothing but hurt good people. The bad people will continue to do it untill caught. Good people follow the laws.

There is now a permit system in place in florida for larger snakes.

I'll be sending a letter, no doubt...

If this is caused because giants that have been released are thriving... *I HAVE NOT READ THE LINK YET*

The first thing that comes to mind is that SURELLY they know that the everglades are a unique climate, correct? Even here in TEXAS, I don't believe any non-hibernating snake would survive one winter out doors!?!?

Dont just blame this on cleaning up Florida. Florida isnt the only reason this has come up. Sadly, yes we do have everglades here and people who dump their no longer desired animals into the glades but it cant *just* be because of our state. I hope this doesnt pass, i would be simply devestated. On a side note for the grandfather thing.. what would they do with all the snakes already living around the country? Wait 20+ years for them to all die off? What about zoo's wanting these species since they will be banned how would they aquire them? I could understand making people carry permits on pythons, boas, exc but certainly not banning them all together!! they have already put permits into effect down here for larger snakes.

Outrageous. I definitly will be writing a letter. I don't understand why they would go about this whole permit thing in Florida, then turn around and outright ban it a few months later.

Florida is one of the only ecosystems in America where these snakes can thrive. Anywhere else it is too dry or cold. To outright ban pretty much every pet snake(besides corns) because of one small section down in Florida is ridiculous. What about iguanas? They are very damaging to the ecosystem and they get 6-8 feet in length.

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

Dont just blame this on cleaning up Florida. Florida isnt the only reason this has come up. Sadly, yes we do have everglades here and people who dump their no longer desired animals into the glades but it cant *just* be because of our state. I hope this doesnt pass, i would be simply devestated. On a side note for the grandfather thing.. what would they do with all the snakes already living around the country? Wait 20+ years for them to all die off? What about zoo's wanting these species since they will be banned how would they aquire them? I could understand making people carry permits on pythons, boas, exc but certainly not banning them all together!! they have already put permits into effect down here for larger snakes.

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This is banning the importation of them and them crossing state lines not owning them

Also Zoos do nto fall under the same laws.

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

I could understand making people carry permits on pythons, boas, exc but certainly not banning them all together!! they have already put permits into effect down here for larger snakes.

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They are not banning the keeping of snakes, only cross-state trading of snakes. Which would effectively crush much of the snake-keeping business. Think about this: Any pet store that imports these snakes from out of state would have to stop carrying them. That means, virtually NO more ball pythons, RTB's, or anything in any store... You'd have teenagers breeding ball pythons in their bedrooms and selling them to their local Petco. (OK, so that's a bit much :P)

The people who are going to have the most impact on the feds are people who breed pythons/boas/anas for money. If you look at the list of comment questions on the proposal pdf, they are mainly about the annual sales of these animals, how many breeders there are, how the breeders would be affected, etc. (In other words, Feds care about $$$ more than hobbyists!)

Can't wait to hear what the NERD people will have to say about this.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

They are not banning the keeping of snakes, only cross-state trading of snakes. Which would effectively crush much of the snake-keeping business. Think about this: Any pet store that imports these snakes from out of state would have to stop carrying them. That means, virtually NO more ball pythons, RTB's, or anything in any store... You'd have teenagers breeding ball pythons in their bedrooms and selling them to their local Petco. (OK, so that's a bit much :P)

The people who are going to have the most impact on the feds are people who breed pythons/boas/anas for money. If you look at the list of comment questions on the proposal pdf, they are mainly about the annual sales of these animals, how many breeders there are, how the breeders would be affected, etc. (In other words, Feds care about $$$ more than hobbyists!)

Can't wait to hear what the NERD people will have to say about this.

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KLG is Kara from NERD...

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Originally Posted by Laooda

KLG is Kara from NERD...

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OH haha... well I feel stupid. :oops:

This is the equivalent of banning all dogs just because pitbulls are used for dogfighting. This is ridiculous. I am in the process of putting my own letter together.

I agree with whoever here who said that it will do nothing to solve the problem they're gunning for: bad people will continue to go outside the law until they get caught, and the good people will suffer.

That said, I really don't think this will go through. It possible, but we've had scares before. I'm not too terribly worried, but I will do what I can to say my piece to the powers that be.

I know this is probably the wrong spot, but this is important. If it's been posted already, I appologize!



Feds Move To Ban Pythons & Boas


The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has made a significant move towards banning the importation and interstate transport of Boa Constrictors and Pythons in the United States. Quietly published in the Federal Register, the agency is accepting public comments until April 30th. If enacted this will devastate an already hard hit industry, dealing a fatal death blow to a large number of businesses dependent on this segment of the industry. Noted herpetologist, author, former zookeeper, and one of the leading private researchers and breeders of pythons in the United States, David Barker, had this to say...

This is the formal notification and request for public comments regarding the intention of USF&W Service to place ALL snakes in the genera Boa, Python, and Eunectes on the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacey Act.

If enacted as regulation, this will ban the importation of said snakes into the USA , and ban all interstate transportation of said snakes.

There is a request made for public input and we feel it will be very important that all keepers with an interest in boas and pythons make written response before 30 April.

This is VERY important. Don’t take this lightly.



Once the importation and inter-state transport has been banned, there will be a rapid exodus of breeders of these species, and eventually they will disappear from the marketplace along with a significant number of businesses and jobs.

To review the USF & W Service proposal, please look at the following document. http://kingsnake.com/FWSReview.pdf

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Originally Posted by JeffFlanagan

You can submit your comment here.

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Everyone please post your comments.

This is my comment that I posted on the web site posted above.

To Whom It May Concern:

Regarding the Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes From Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera. I own 30 ball python (python regius), and 3 boa constrictors (Boa Constrictor Imperator). My collection includes morphs, which are worth more than normal appearing snakes.

I have invested approximately $10,000, into my collection. I plan on breeding and selling the babies to other hobbyist/ breeders. I plan on selling them via reptile shows, and over the internet. I am in the process of getting certified to ship via FEDEX and Delta. I will only ship within the United States.

Ball pythons and boa constrictors are non-venomous. They are not dangerous to humans. Ball pythons normally do not grow longer than 4-5 feet. Boa constrictors normally do not grow longer than 7-8 feet. I am an experienced keeper and have never had an issue with my snakes escaping. I have spent a lot of money on specialty caging, which makes it impossible for the snakes to escape.

Ball pythons and boa constrictors need heat to survive. If they were to escape, or if an irresponsible keeper were to let them go in the wild, they would not survive the winters of most states.

If this ban were to be put in place, my business would not survive. I would also be extremely upset, because my snakes are my pets. I ask that this ban is reconsidered.

Thank you very much for your time, and consideration.

Eddie Strong, Jr.

This is what I have so far:

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I am writing in response to the proposed bill by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife to prohibit importation/ownership of all genera of Boa, Python and Eunectes.

I am deeply concerned with the impact that this bill will have on the community of people who keep and breed reptiles as a hobby. The vast majority of the species covered in the bill pose little threat to everyday life, certainly not more than owning a cat or a dog. I understand this bill is a response to the recent invasion of large python species infiltrating south Florida, but why not concentrate on the regulation of those select few species instead of outright banning all members of Boidae, most of which rarely exceed 5 feet long? After all, that is what the state of Florida has done already with the following species: Burmese python, African rock python, reticulated python, and green anacondas. The bill that the U.S.F.W. is proposing that is against all pythons and boas is the equivalent of banning the ownership of all dogs based on pitbulls used on dogfighting.

This bill, while good in its intentions, will end up devastating the lives of many hobbyists who keep those smaller species. I, for one, own a ball python, a commonly kept species that rarely even reaches a length of five feet and poses no greater threat to human life than a toy poodle. I have had this snake for nearly 15 years, longer than any other pet I've owned. I couldn't bear to give him up, but if this bill is passed, I fear I will be forced to do so.

I hope that the powers that be reconsider this bill and what it really means for the reptile industry.
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Any feedback would be welcome.

It has been posted already in the General Herp section.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

OH haha... well I feel stupid. :oops:

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No worries! :D

If it would help I am sure that others including me would volunteer
some of our time to helping places like the everglades in any way we can. Maybe someone could get a group of people willing to go out and catch as many of the released herps as they can. I sure if a few people went out in the glades every weekend to catch them it would make a difference. Think about it if we can wipe out populations of herps by catching to many in their own natural areas, by catching to many, than surely we can do this in a place where their numbers are much lower to start off with.
I think that it would be important for us to come up with smart ways of fixing the problem too, and putting them in our letters. This will help our situation in more then one way. One it will come up with a way to fix the problem with out a ban. And two it makes us Herp lovers look like part of the solution and not the problem.

Yup, if someone wants to move it... delete it then fine, but it's very important. I'm sorry if it's the wrong place, but it needs a lot of attention.

Everyone keeps asking whats next? You will be unable to breath without writting permision from the president :mad: :rolleyes:.I also find this crap being pushed for during the pesidential stuff going on :mad:.We all need to come together and shut these jerks down FOREVER :salute:

I always thought diplomacy, and our government was about the people deciding how the country was to be run. To vote on it, and have a fair decision. That no one person could decide for us, saying this is how this will be run, and that being done this way; or tell us what we can or cannot do, and run our lives....That the voice of the people were to ultimately decide. Seems to be less true every day....:(

As several have said, we need to be smart about this. No threats, no bad language, no hate mail, no rambling comments. Comments must be clear and to the point. We need to respond to the proposed regs but we also need to write every one of our US elected officials, US representatives and senators, to make them understand why this isn't smart. Politics can come into play. This was issued by the beaurcrats - they can be influenced by politicians who do not like their voters upset.

There are also points we should be aware of when writing our legislators. Usually one page max, make your point in the first sentence e.g., "I am very concerned about the proposed regulations by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to ban the importation and interstate transport of constrictor snakes because ___________" Fill in the blank . .. I make a living breeding and selling these snakes, or I have a small business that breeds and sells these snakes, or I plan to breed and sell snakes in this category in the next year . . . . .

Then go on and explain why this is very important to you.

Some examples of well written letters would be very helpful to most people on the various fourms. I remember some from people who were facing bans in their states - those may need to be resurected. If anyone has written one or sees one somewhere else, post it please.

Let's take this very seriously.