You guys ever heard of CRACKING you snakes back?

So I have a friend that works at a local Petland. I told him about my new spider and he was stoked to see him. So today I brought him in to check out.
Lawrence has owned snakes since he was about 7 and has worked with Ball Pythons, Cobras, Diamond Backs, Anacondas, Retics, Boas the list goes on... We started taking about caring for BPs and he asked if I give him baths, or crack his back. I was like "yeah sometimes I let him soak in warm water to get a bad shed off, but cracking their back?!" He looked at me and was like "yea, just like you sometimes stand up and stretch your back out, snakes need that too." I was a little shocked but after we gave Kingsley bath to help him loosen up any blockage Lawrence proceeded to massage his sides (gently) and then once he was relaxed he slowly cracked his spine back into alignment. I put my fingers on the sides to feel it and I swear, it felt just like cracking your neck or back, I was amazed! Apparently not only is it good for overall health, but it helps them grow, and digest their food. Oh and by the way Kingsley loooved it, I have never seen a bp so calm and relaxed.

Sooo, Im just wondering if you guys do anything like that with your snakes?

Ive bever heard of that at all. then again I am a noob. I wouldnt do it to mine, sounds too dangerous. Id mistake "relaxed and calm" for paralyzed.

nope, never heard of it, or want to try it...

Sounds a bit dangerous...

it happened with my pastel one day when i was handling him. all i felt was a line of pops and since then he hasnt had a kink. i dont know if the snake enjoys it but its deffinatly crazy and no i didnt do it. it was the way he was hanging off my hand and when i want to go put him back in the tank he went though my hand and he popped all down his back. i would never crack any animals bones like that. except for mine

Never heard of anything like this before, but before you take the advise of someone who works at petland, friend or not, you should really get in touch with a qualified vet and run it by them.

Its happened a couple times with a very boas I've dealt with just by accident. I don't think its something thats required and certainly unsure it's even safe.

Be wary of any advice from some pimple-face doofus from Petland.

Ah yes there we go.. right there. *POP* paralyzed snake.... Bad idea imo.

I've never heard of a snake needing its vertebrae realigned, I can imagine it would happen naturally or unintentionally but I would be extremely wary of anyone practicing chiropractic care/adjustments on any animal or human without a license or having studied it in a medical environment. A lot of damage can occur from people attempting to crack each others backs, necks, or various other joints of the body and people have paralyzed their pets by trying to adjust their spines. A client of the vet I used to volunteer at adopted a cat whose hind legs were paralyzed from it's previous owner attempting to crack it's back.

I do think that, with the snug tubs that we house our snakes in, it is good to get them out for a stretch every so often. But cracking their back.. sounds dangerous.

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Originally Posted by giaach

So I have a friend that works at a local Petland. I told him about my new spider and he was stoked to see him. So today I brought him in to check out.
Lawrence has owned snakes since he was about 7 and has worked with Ball Pythons, Cobras, Diamond Backs, Anacondas, Retics, Boas the list goes on... We started taking about caring for BPs and he asked if I give him baths, or crack his back. I was like "yeah sometimes I let him soak in warm water to get a bad shed off, but cracking their back?!" He looked at me and was like "yea, just like you sometimes stand up and stretch your back out, snakes need that too." I was a little shocked but after we gave Kingsley bath to help him loosen up any blockage Lawrence proceeded to massage his sides (gently) and then once he was relaxed he slowly cracked his spine back into alignment. I put my fingers on the sides to feel it and I swear, it felt just like cracking your neck or back, I was amazed! Apparently not only is it good for overall health, but it helps them grow, and digest their food. Oh and by the way Kingsley loooved it, I have never seen a bp so calm and relaxed.

Sooo, Im just wondering if you guys do anything like that with your snakes?

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My god keep your snake away from your freind :O.He might have just injured your snake PERMANATLY and possibly broke some bones.I would not advise doing that again

Alright, I see all of your concerned remarks, but seriously, a guy that has spent his whole life with reptiles and has been trained to handle all different types of snakes sounds pretty qualified to me. The guy is not just working at petland he's actually a biology major with a concentration in zoology. I think he knows what's safe and what's not. Also, there where no defensive strikes or quick movements from the snake to signal pain or discomfort. While I may be new to snakes I think that just because somebody is offering new techniques to care for ball pythons, he or she should not be shoot down because their methods are not common practice.

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

The reasons he outlined for ‘cracking’ the snakes back sound very on par with chiropractics. I don’t want to discuss chiropractics as they apply to humans, but I will say; in the wild there are no snake chiropractors, so, in the interests of respecting Mother Nature’s guidance, I’d not ‘crack’ my snakes back. If there is something out of whack, he will know and do something about it. Provide a round log for him to curl around and give a good squeeze, and odds are he will do the job himself. IMO.

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Originally Posted by giaach

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

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I'm not questioning your friends sincerity. However, when next you speak, I'd invite you to ask in a conversational way about where he learned the technique, what medical/biology book he read about them in, or what his thoughts on chiropractics are. You seem to be assuming that he applied these techniques as part of an exercise he learned as part of his zoology training.

Actually, Giaach "qualified professionals" offer up and practice advice that is quite harmful to the animals in their care.

I don't look down on or shoot down anybody just because they have a new idea - but in cases like this where serious physical harm could come to one of my animals I am skeptical for the sake of my animal!

Zoologist does not mean chiropractor. Animal chiropractic care is often a completely seperate course and area of study from any other type of care.

I would not allow a veterinarian to attempt to train one of my animals because they are not behaviorists or trainers, they may be medical professionals and qualified (for the most part) to treat and care for an injured or sick animal but that does not mean they are qualified to do anything else.

A professional in one area does not mean a professional in all areas that could be related to their studies. When it comes to potential physical harm I look to training, qualifications, studies, PROOF.. not just someone who has and has handled lots of critters.

JMHO

Edit: Sorry if anything was repeated from the post above, I took a long time to type it out

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Originally Posted by giaach

Alright, I see all of your concerned remarks, but seriously, a guy that has spent his whole life with reptiles and has been trained to handle all different types of snakes sounds pretty qualified to me. The guy is not just working at petland he's actually a biology major with a concentration in zoology. I think he knows what's safe and what's not. Also, there where no defensive strikes or quick movements from the snake to signal pain or discomfort. While I may be new to snakes I think that just because somebody is offering new techniques to care for ball pythons, he or she should not be shoot down because their methods are not common practice.

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

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Sorry bro, that dont mean much to me, or any of the rest of us.

How do you know that he has studied on this, or has had medical and scientific proof that this benifits the snake?

Just because he has a major in Biology, mainly in Zoology, doesnt mean much either along the lines of that. Ive talked to "Exoctic" reptile vets that have told me use a HOT ROCK for a snake. :thumbsdow

If it was me, I wouldnt let him try anything on my snakes like that, and I waould also question his "knowledge".

My :twocents:

In snakes every vertebrae has a set of ribs attached to it, all of that structure of bones have ligaments supporting their proper placement, muscle attachments, etc. It's a highly complex and very exact skeletal system.

I'm not slamming your friend but if he's a student, majoring in biology, working at Petland he should know enough to not do more than his education allows. A bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Personally I'm not letting anyone who doesn't have years upon years of training and real experience, who can't show me studies by recognized authorities, mess around with my snake's back.

I understand where you are all coming from. Believe me, if I didn't trust this guy I would have never let him even hold him. While we were talking he told me how snakes do the same thing in the wild. This guy isn't in his early 20s being a cocky college student. He actually went back to school after working at the columbus zoo and all around the americas for 5 or so years. What the snakes do in the wild involves 2 trees or branches. They wrap their tail around one branch and reach out for the other and basically stretch themselves out, re-aligning their back. Sometimes they do it when your holding them. They might wrap tightly around your arm.
When I said cracking the snakes back, thats not a literal term. He held the snake with both hands, massages its sides and then slid his fingers down the length of the snake back and by doing this ever so gently it aligned the snakes spine.
He actually stopped doing it and the snake took matters into his own hands and proceeded to stretch himself out the way he had described.

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Originally Posted by giaach

He actually stopped doing it and the snake took matters into his own hands and proceeded to stretch himself out the way he had described.

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Or, maybe your snake was in so much pain the he was stretching himself out to try to relieve it.

If your friend traveled all around the country for 5 years then he probably wasn't any one place for very long. If he wasn't in any one place for very long he may well have had a problem keeping a job. If he had a problem keeping a job he may not be so knowledgable as you think.

Chances are he didn't do any damage to your snake however, as with the others, I'd recommend against further "adjustments."

Have you ever had a pinched nerve in your spine? I have. It hurts a lot but does not always impair my ability to move or lift or any other daily function. But the pain is there. Snakes don't show pain the way mammals do and I seriously doubt if you would know if your snake had a nerve pinched between one or two or three of four or a dozen vertebra.

I think your friend thinks he knows more than he does and you, being a loyal friend, are not doing the best you can by your snake.

I've only been keeping snakes a few decades but I've never seen or heard of a chiropractic study on adjusting their spines.

Also, as far as I know, ball pythons don't spend a lot of time stretching between tree branches. That right there should have clued you that something was off with your friends knowledge.

the cracking is merely the nitrogen gas in the joint escaping, i wouldnt do it intentionaly but ive heard my snakes do it while being handled, but if they do it themselves thats fine putting undue pressure on a snakes spine is just asking for trouble IMO all it takes is too much pressure and it would easily be a broken rib or even worse its spine.

a snakes spine does not need alligning by anyone just look at their bone structure and you will see there is virtualy no movement between two vertebra, whereas say 20 its a lot more. each vertebra adds more range of movement.

Seriously people dont try this!!!

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Have you ever had a pinched nerve in your spine? I have. It hurts a lot but does not always impair my ability to move or lift or any other daily function. But the pain is there.

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Oh man, I hear you on that one. I get them from time to time. My friend gets them worse and they are enough to debilitate her and she can't even go to work.
Since snakes can't say "ouch, this hurts.." I don't think that we should assume that they need their back cracked. Their ribcages are so fragile really..
I have actually handled my BPs before, and felt a popping/cracking sound. I was not trying to pop them or anything, but it happened as they moved at liberty in my hands. Would I deliberately crack their backs? No. I see it as something that, yes, might happen as a snake moves about. But not something that humans should be messing around with.

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Originally Posted by giaach

They wrap their tail around one branch and reach out for the other and basically stretch themselves out, re-aligning their back.

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This MAY be true for other species, but I'm certain it's not for a Ball Python.

They can't wrap thier tails around anything really, being so short and stubby, and they sure don't inhabate trees in thier lives in the wild.

The only place you will find a ball python in the wild is in a burrow, or if it's hunting at night, on the ground.

Never once heard of a Ball Python living in trees. They may use trees and branches in captivity that are placed in the enclosure, but thats merely just a way to try to get out. Using the limb as a tool of hieght.

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Originally Posted by giaach

I understand where you are all coming from. Believe me, if I didn't trust this guy I would have never let him even hold him. While we were talking he told me how snakes do the same thing in the wild. This guy isn't in his early 20s being a cocky college student. He actually went back to school after working at the columbus zoo and all around the americas for 5 or so years. What the snakes do in the wild involves 2 trees or branches. They wrap their tail around one branch and reach out for the other and basically stretch themselves out, re-aligning their back. Sometimes they do it when your holding them. They might wrap tightly around your arm.
When I said cracking the snakes back, thats not a literal term. He held the snake with both hands, massages its sides and then slid his fingers down the length of the snake back and by doing this ever so gently it aligned the snakes spine.
He actually stopped doing it and the snake took matters into his own hands and proceeded to stretch himself out the way he had described.

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Ask your freind to join here and show us writting proof of these methods and if its a proving technique then we will apologize.If your freind refuses to show us this proof then in my opinion he is passing on lies and needs to never allowed to be around any animals.Until then i stand firm on this technique being a bunch of elephant poo ;)

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Originally Posted by pslsnakes

Never once heard of a Ball Python living in trees.

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That makes two of us :P

That makes three of us.

Quattro :)

Hey I never said that they live in trees. He was only using that as an example, it doesnt mean it applies to just ball pythons. When I go in this sunday Ill ask him about it again and see if he can provide some hard evidence.

I know they don't live in trees - and this has nothing to do with this thread - but every now and then, my bp will just lounge on his branch...and will sometimes hunt prey from there. It's usually a comical feed because there's just no leverage, but the branch gives him the "upper" hand in the hunt.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ask your freind to join here and show us writting proof of these methods and if its a proving technique then we will apologize.If your freind refuses to show us this proof then in my opinion he is passing on lies and needs to never allowed to be around any animals.Until then i stand firm on this technique being a bunch of elephant poo ;)

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Originally Posted by giaach

Hey I never said that they live in trees. He was only using that as an example, it doesnt mean it applies to just ball pythons. When I go in this sunday Ill ask him about it again and see if he can provide some hard evidence.

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No need for you to get upset here :D.If you please have HIM come here and show us his written proof of this ;)

Guys, there's no need to go on the offensive. If you don't agree with the technique, a simple explanation of why you wouldn't use it will suffice. We don't need for him to prove his techniques, as we don't practice this in the first place. Yes, I would like to see any studies that proved this to be beneficial but it's hardly necessary to make me from stopping something I don't already practice.

I DO have a Bachelors of Science degree in Biological Sciences with an Emphasis in Zoology, and I can tell you that that particular subject NEVER came up in any of my classes. In fact, the BS is pretty basic in teaching taxonomy, biological and chemical systems. I did have quite a few genetics classes which helped me out quite a bit here. Most zoology classes do not teach about live animals, at least not on such a basic level. I also wouldn't take ONE person's word about anything. I like to gather as much research as possible, and then apply it to my own personal situation. What works for some may not work for others.

To me it sounds a bit similar to palpating follicles, but on the entire snake. Personally I do not and will not be trying that out on my snakes.

Last night I was handling my BP, and his back carcked about 50 times. He did it himself apparently, as he just stretched out. But afterwards he did seem to be more relaxed, or maybe it was just me, heh.

All I gotta say is with all this talk about cracking backs, I think I need to make an appointment with my chriopractor! :gj: I'd never do it on my bp :colbert:but it sure sounds like it would help my back feel better! :banana:

Its not good for humans to 'crack' thier backs, im sure itsnot good for snakes either. If something needs to be re-aligned, then they willdo it themselves.

Just another great idea from Petland, after all you do need a masters degree to work there..........

No offense.. But if your friends done all this traveling, and has all of this exsperiance, and has a major/degree with biology and zoology, then why is he working at petland?

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Originally Posted by Subzero

Its not good for humans to 'crack' thier backs, im sure itsnot good for snakes either. If something needs to be re-aligned, then they willdo it themselves.

Just another great idea from Petland, after all you do need a masters degree to work there..........

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I agree. Ill never intentionally do anything like that to my snakes. And I know that from all the times ive cracked my neck, back, and knuckles, im gonna be in arthritic hell here soon :(