New to snakes, new-ish to the board. I've got questions! :)

Hello, everybody! :) I'm somewhat new to this board, and I have some questions for you all. First of all, I want to give a little back story. I've never had a snake before, and i've been thinking about getting a ball python for a while. I've been researching snakes (corns and balls) for a little over a year now. I'm pretty sure that i've got everything down that I need in order to get a snake. I just wanted to verify and get extra tips if they're available.
Now, i've already got the snake "picked out", so to speak. I found a listing on Craigslist for a yearling female ball python,(he said that he has to move soon, so he's got to get rid of all of his reptiles.) and while I don't have the money RIGHT now, the guy told me he would hold on to it until I get my money from my income taxes. (it should be the beginning of next month.)
From what i've read and learned, a ball should be kept at 85 - 90 on the warm side, and around 75 on the cool side, correct?
I know that they need 2 hides (one on the warm, and one on the cool side) as well as a water dish placed in the middle. (large enough for the snake to soak in if it wants to.) I haven't really seen anything in cement about the humidity requirements, but i'm guessing from 50 - 60% and when in shed bump it up to 70 ish? is that correct, or does it need to stay at 60%?
I'm planning on getting a thermometer/hygrometer (digital), as well as a UTH/thermostat.
I have a 29 gallon tank right now that's not being used,(but was used for fish in the past. And it was a saltwater tank - does that matter if I clean it or not?) and I was planning on using a bleach/water (1 part bleach to 5 parts water) solution to clean it. Would that work? And would that be appropriate for a yearling, or should I start out with a 10 gallon, and work my way up so she doesn't get overly stressed?
Other than that, I wanted to use aspen or paper towels as substrate. I'm pretty sure that would be sufficent enough. But what i'm curious about it is it extremely necessary to have reptile carpet, or is it better used as a precaution. I don't mind getting it, but if I don't need it it's money saved. :)
I'm also planning on using a screen for the aquarium. I know that i'll need cage clips - is there anything else I should think about getting before I actually get the snake other than the things that i've mentioned? I feel like i'll have enough to get by for the time being.
Also, i've planned on this for when I get her - when she comes home, i'm going to leave her alone for 3 - 5 days and then feed her. After I feed her I will not handle her (as hard as it may be!) for about 2 or 3 weeks after that (with regular feeding, changing of the water, and maintainence between that.) and then begin handling 2 - 4 times a week. (without handling for 48 hours after feeding.)
So, I think that's all my knowledge right now. Is there anything else I should know/be prepared for? Anything that I got wrong? :) Thank you all for your help!

Have you checked out the caresheets offered on this site? They are loaded with great information.

Here is the link to the caresheet:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

Tank Setup:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=56846

BP Husbandry FAQs:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=30763

BQ FAQs:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=31102

I can say that your temps are a bit off. The warm side should be 90 - 94 and the cool side 80 - 84. Your humidity should be 50 - 60% and bumped up to 70 during shed.

I highly suggest checking out the above links. Great stuff!

Good luck with your soon to be bp!

I have looked at them, but it's been a while. I'll make sure to look them over again, though. Thank you for your help. :)

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Originally Posted by TanyaL

Have you checked out the caresheets offered on this site? They are loaded with great information.

Here is the link to the caresheet:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

Tank Setup:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=56846

BP Husbandry FAQs:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=30763

BQ FAQs:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=31102

I can say that your temps are a bit off. The warm side should be 90 - 94 and the cool side 80 - 84. Your humidity should be 50 - 60% and bumped up to 70 during shed.

I highly suggest checking out the above links. Great stuff!

Good luck with your soon to be bp!

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Welcome to the team:gj:

Thank you. :) i'm very excited! Weirdly enough, I had a dream last night that I had a Hog Island Boa, Ball, and Corn, and they all hated me and tried biting me. lol - hopefully that isn't the case in real life. I've got cats, though, so i'm not that afraid of a (smaller) snake bite. Interestingly enough, those are 3 of the many on my want list. :)

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Originally Posted by juddb

Welcome to the team:gj:

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Originally Posted by Suzy

Thank you. :) i'm very excited! Weirdly enough, I had a dream last night that I had a Hog Island Boa, Ball, and Corn, and they all hated me and tried biting me. lol - hopefully that isn't the case in real life. I've got cats, though, so i'm not that afraid of a (smaller) snake bite. Interestingly enough, those are 3 of the many on my want list. :)

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LOL When we first got Foster, she struck at me twice. I swear she hates me. My son feeds her but I pay for it. If only she knew! LOL

I wish I had done as much research before getting our ball as you have. We actually planned on getting a corn but my son really wanted a ball for his birthday so at the last minute, we were stupid enough to get the ball without really knowing what to expect. I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to get.

Welcome to the forum!

That's a lot of questions! That's great; it means that you are really thinking this through carefully and doing your research *before* you bring your new pet home, and that's the best kind of pet owner. :)

You seem to be getting a good idea of what you need to know. It does seem that your sources may not have been the best, or perhaps are out of date.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I found a listing on Craigslist for a yearling female ball python,(he said that he has to move soon, so he's got to get rid of all of his reptiles.) and while I don't have the money RIGHT now, the guy told me he would hold on to it until I get my money from my income taxes. (it should be the beginning of next month.)

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Be careful of buying a snake (or any animal) on Craigslist. Especially since you are not very familiar with snakes, it will be hard to know if you are getting a good deal, or just inheriting a bunch of headaches if the snake has not been properly cared for. It might have internal parasites or other things that aren't immediately obvious. I'd recommend going to a good breeder for your first snake.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

From what i've read and learned, a ball should be kept at 85 - 90 on the warm side, and around 75 on the cool side, correct?

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75 is definitely too cold. Most people recommend temps of at or a bit above 80 for the cool side, and at or a bit above 90 for the warm side.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I know that they need 2 hides (one on the warm, and one on the cool side) as well as a water dish placed in the middle. (large enough for the snake to soak in if it wants to.)

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Get 2 hides that are the same and will fit the snake snugly. The water dish does not necessarily have to be in the middle. Some people move it to the warm side to increase humidity. Also most BPs don't choose to soak unless they have mites, so I think most people don't consider a large water a necessity for BPs, but again it can help increase humidity.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I haven't really seen anything in cement about the humidity requirements, but i'm guessing from 50 - 60% and when in shed bump it up to 70 ish? is that correct, or does it need to stay at 60%?

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This, along with the temps being a bit off, is what made me say your sources may not be the best. Any good caresheet about BPs would definitely mention humidity. However, the numbers you guessed here are good.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I'm planning on getting a thermometer/hygrometer (digital), as well as a UTH/thermostat.

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Digital thermometer/hygrometer and a t-stat are musts!

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I have a 29 gallon tank right now that's not being used,(but was used for fish in the past. And it was a saltwater tank - does that matter if I clean it or not?) and I was planning on using a bleach/water (1 part bleach to 5 parts water) solution to clean it. Would that work? And would that be appropriate for a yearling, or should I start out with a 10 gallon, and work my way up so she doesn't get overly stressed?

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A 29 gallon tank is a "tall" style and that isn't best for BPs, who don't do much climbing. The height can also make it harder to maintain temps and humidity. However, the floor space of the tank is probably reasonable for a yearling BP. You might want to consider a tub, which makes it much easier to maintain temps and humidity. If you do decide to use the 29 gallon tank, the fact that it was used for saltwater in the past should not matter if you clean it thoroughly. Bleach is fine if you rinse it thoroughly.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

Other than that, I wanted to use aspen or paper towels as substrate. I'm pretty sure that would be sufficent enough. But what i'm curious about it is it extremely necessary to have reptile carpet, or is it better used as a precaution. I don't mind getting it, but if I don't need it it's money saved. :)

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Aspen and paper towels are both fine. Newspaper is also very popular. Reptile carpet is not necessary, and a lot of people recommend against it because it is not easy to clean and if not thoroughly cleaned it can be a breeding ground for bacteria.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

I'm also planning on using a screen for the aquarium. I know that i'll need cage clips - is there anything else I should think about getting before I actually get the snake other than the things that i've mentioned? I feel like i'll have enough to get by for the time being.

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I'm not familiar with the screen/clips set ups, as I've used the kind of tanks with the sliding screens. You will need to do something to the screen to prevent the heat and humidity from getting out. A popular method is to use layers of foil held down by duct tape. I have a sheet of styrofoam like stuff on top of mine. You'll need to close most of it off and leave some open for air flow.

Other things to think about... you haven't mentioned feeding at all. Do you have a plan for live or f/t? Do you have a source for food? Also it would be a good idea to research reptile vets in your area ahead of time, so you know where to go if/when you need to. That's all that immediately comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by Suzy

Also, i've planned on this for when I get her - when she comes home, i'm going to leave her alone for 3 - 5 days and then feed her. After I feed her I will not handle her (as hard as it may be!) for about 2 or 3 weeks after that (with regular feeding, changing of the water, and maintainence between that.) and then begin handling 2 - 4 times a week. (without handling for 48 hours after feeding.)

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That's reasonable. For your first few feedings, offer the same thing it was used to, even if you plan to offer a different food (rats vs mice) or a different method (live vs f/t).

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Originally Posted by Suzy

So, I think that's all my knowledge right now. Is there anything else I should know/be prepared for? Anything that I got wrong? :) Thank you all for your help!

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One important thing not mentioned is to get your cage set up ahead of time and make sure you have the temps and humidity stabilized before you bring your snake home.

Other than that, use the time you have before you get your snake to learn more. Read the BP caresheet, and all the stickies and FAQs on this site. Then just read the postings (especially in the General BP and BP husbandry sections). You'll learn a lot.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Welcome to the forum!

That's a lot of questions! That's great; it means that you are really thinking this through carefully and doing your research *before* you bring your new pet home, and that's the best kind of pet owner. :)

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Thank you. :) I'm a very cautious person by nature, and I know that a snake can/is likely to be a long term commitment, and I wanted to make sure I knew everything possible before I even thought of bringing one home.

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You seem to be getting a good idea of what you need to know. It does seem that your sources may not have been the best, or perhaps are out of date.

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Yeah, after reading what the FAQs on this board said, I realized that too. :) But I have read these FAQs, and I feel more comfortable in my newer knowledge. It wasn't just that, but the fact that i've been researching Corns a lot, and I may have gotten the info mixed up, because corns (I believe) are 85 hot - 75 cool, so I guess I can chalk it up to being a noob. :)

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Be careful of buying a snake (or any animal) on Craigslist. Especially since you are not very familiar with snakes, it will be hard to know if you are getting a good deal, or just inheriting a bunch of headaches if the snake has not been properly cared for. It might have internal parasites or other things that aren't immediately obvious. I'd recommend going to a good breeder for your first snake.

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Oh, really? Okay - well, i've e-mailed the guy and told him to hold on to it. I mean, you're probably right, and there is a reptile show in the beginning of March. I guess if i've waited this long, I can wait another month. :) I just saw the price ($55) and got a little too excited - but a breeder would be the best way to go, and it'll give me a little more time to get everything set up first. :) It scares me to not know if my (future) snake is going to be in great health (as a breeder's would most likely be) and not at risk for parasites, etc. That's the main reason I didn't want to go to a pet store, because I know that a lot of them are WC and/or have mites and parasites. I've read waaay too many horror stories.

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75 is definitely too cold. Most people recommend temps of at or a bit above 80 for the cool side, and at or a bit above 90 for the warm side.

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Okay, that works. When reading the caresheet on this page, it said not to let the cool side dip into the 70s at all - would that mean that it'd be best for me to get a CHE/Light for the cool side as well? Or would the UTH work for that?

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Get 2 hides that are the same and will fit the snake snugly. The water dish does not necessarily have to be in the middle. Some people move it to the warm side to increase humidity. Also most BPs don't choose to soak unless they have mites, so I think most people don't consider a large water a necessity for BPs, but again it can help increase humidity.

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The hide thing is something i've seen everywhere. I'll make sure to do that. Identical and snug. :) Okay, that makes sense. I will just place it where it feels best. :)

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This, along with the temps being a bit off, is what made me say your sources may not be the best. Any good caresheet about BPs would definitely mention humidity. However, the numbers you guessed here are good.

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Okay, cool. :)

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Digital thermometer/hygrometer and a t-stat are musts!

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Great! That's one of the most common musts that i've read about on all of the message boards. :)

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A 29 gallon tank is a "tall" style and that isn't best for BPs, who don't do much climbing. The height can also make it harder to maintain temps and humidity. However, the floor space of the tank is probably reasonable for a yearling BP. You might want to consider a tub, which makes it much easier to maintain temps and humidity. If you do decide to use the 29 gallon tank, the fact that it was used for saltwater in the past should not matter if you clean it thoroughly. Bleach is fine if you rinse it thoroughly.

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Okay - well, I have a 10 gallon as well,(which is probably too small for a yearling) but don't have anything else around here. i'll work with the 29 first, and if that doesn't work out, i'll splurge and get a 20L or 30L - which would be better? i'm wanting to use an aquarium at first, because of the visual enjoyment as well as already having them with nothing in them, and not having to run out to get anything else. :)

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Aspen and paper towels are both fine. Newspaper is also very popular. Reptile carpet is not necessary, and a lot of people recommend against it because it is not easy to clean and if not thoroughly cleaned it can be a breeding ground for bacteria.

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Okay, good. I've read that there's a risk of the snake burning themselves if they burrow under the substrate (if it's aspen or anything similar) or it possibly catching fire (newspaper and paper towels) if there's no Repti-carpet on top of the UTH. I think I may have seen that on this forum, actually.

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I'm not familiar with the screen/clips set ups, as I've used the kind of tanks with the sliding screens. You will need to do something to the screen to prevent the heat and humidity from getting out. A popular method is to use layers of foil held down by duct tape. I have a sheet of styrofoam like stuff on top of mine. You'll need to close most of it off and leave some open for air flow.

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To be honest with you, i'm not very familiar with the screen and clips either, but from what i've read, it's recommended to get some screen clips so the snake won't escape. I'm just trying to make it as secure as possible because i've got 4 cats, and I don't want them to harm the snake.
I'll keep that in mind. I'll test it out without covering it first, and if it's still too dry, then i'll try the foil/duct tape method. :) I've got plenty of both.

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Other things to think about... you haven't mentioned feeding at all. Do you have a plan for live or f/t? Do you have a source for food? Also it would be a good idea to research reptile vets in your area ahead of time, so you know where to go if/when you need to. That's all that immediately comes to mind.

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Yeah, I forgot to talk about that in here - I remembered after I posted, and was too lazy to edit. :)
I'm planning on using f/t - it's less risk to the snake, and it's easier for me because I won't necessarily have to watch the snake kill a mouse. I know it's nature, but i'd get sad if I had to see that. I would do it if the snake wouldn't eat f/t, but if that was the case i'd stun first. I'd like to start out with mice initially. If they're already on rats, then chances are that's what i'd feed them. I'm planning on either going to my local herp show (bi-monthly) and just buying in bulk there, or going through rodentpro.com or themousefactory.com. rodent pro is a vendor at my reptile show, though.
As for reptile vets, there's one about 30 or so minutes away from me in both directions. I've got a website bookmarked (through anapsid.org and herpvetconnection.com) that shows local herp vets, addresses, and phone numbers. :)

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That's reasonable. For your first few feedings, offer the same thing it was used to, even if you plan to offer a different food (rats vs mice) or a different method (live vs f/t).

One important thing not mentioned is to get your cage set up ahead of time and make sure you have the temps and humidity stabilized before you bring your snake home.

Other than that, use the time you have before you get your snake to learn more. Read the BP caresheet, and all the stickies and FAQs on this site. Then just read the postings (especially in the General BP and BP husbandry sections). You'll learn a lot.

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Okay, i'll make sure to do that. I've got to clean and disinfect it, and still get a few things for it, and i'll set it up in my bedroom - even if it is snake-less for now. :) It'll probably be a lot less stressful for the snake and myself if I don't have to mess around with the heat/humidity while it's trying to adjust to a new home. :)
Ok, i'll do that - thank you so much for your time and patience with me. I know that it's not always fun trying to help out the newbies, but I hope you (and everyone reading this) know that I really do appreciate it. If it weren't for people like you, then i'd be stumped as to what to do. I'd probably think it was ok to co-hab snakes if it wasn't for forums. (I know it's wrong! :) )

Screen clips you can get at almost any pet store that carries reptiles. They just clip to both sides, they even have some with locks on them. Also with a screen top you might want to duct tape some cardboard over at least half of the screen to help keep your humididty up. When i first got into snakes a few years ago i struggled with bad sheds until i had an experienced person tell me to to cover half of the screen.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I wanted to echo the statement about Craigslist. I'm fairly new to BPs, and was advised to go with a breeder. I checked with a few, and got a price of under $100, included shipping, for a nice looking baby ball. Most of the craigslist ads for snakes that I've seen are asking fairly close to that.

Would you use those with the sliding screens, or any screen in general?
I will mess around with the humidity first, and if it's too low, i'll keep that in mind. I don't want to put my future snake through any bad sheds, so i'll definitely keep some cardboard/foil and duct tape around. :) is one better than the other, or do they both pretty much do the same thing?
Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Brett89

Screen clips you can get at almost any pet store that carries reptiles. They just clip to both sides, they even have some with locks on them. Also with a screen top you might want to duct tape some cardboard over at least half of the screen to help keep your humididty up. When i first got into snakes a few years ago i struggled with bad sheds until i had an experienced person tell me to to cover half of the screen.

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It's funny, because I had sent another person an e-mail before I got any responses on here, and he offered me an adult at $150. I told him i'd prefer a hatchling/yearling, and he sent me 3 responses to that within a span of about 5 minutes. The first one, he told me that a buyer just backed out on him, so he has a yearling. The second, he asked me if I needed a cage, and the third he told me that he had a 55 gallon as well as the yearling and all the accessories and that he'd sell them all for $150. I told him thanks, but no thanks. It almost seemed like a used car salesman trying to pressure me into buying it. I don't know if that's how he operates or what. He's apparently a breeder and has been for 10 years, but as far as i've seen most breeders have their own websites and don't operate out of Craigslist. He told me that his prices were much cheaper than any pet store, but that's one place i'll never buy a snake from. :)
I know that there's a bi-monthly reptile show here in Kansas City, and the next one is on March 9th, so i'll go then and take a look around. (I keep telling myself, if I want one bad enough, I can wait another month and change.) I'd rather have my finances in order before I go splurging on a new critter, and by then, I will. :)

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

I'm not an expert by any means, but I wanted to echo the statement about Craigslist. I'm fairly new to BPs, and was advised to go with a breeder. I checked with a few, and got a price of under $100, included shipping, for a nice looking baby ball. Most of the craigslist ads for snakes that I've seen are asking fairly close to that.

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A reptile show can be a great place to get your new pet! We got ours, a normal female, for $20 at a show last fall. Try to get a list of vendors ahead of time so you can determine who are the good guys to buy from!

I am using a 20L tank, because we like the idea of a visual display. As it turns out, during the winter we need to insulate all 4 sides, so for now it is a display of cardboard! But it was nice in the fall and will be nice again once the weather warms up again. Or we could just up the heat in the whole house but it isn't worth it. I am using 2 UTHs, a smaller one on the cool side. You can use a CHE or light, but those will both eat up the humidity.

The 10 gallon tank you mention would be great for a hatchling. Another reason to get a snake from a breeder!

You shouldn't have to worry about burning your snake with a UTH that is properly controlled by a t-stat.

That's what I figured, too. I don't know what the reptile show here in KC is like, but i'll post about that here in a few minutes, as well as a little bit of annoyance with somebody that keeps hounding me. :)
That's pretty much all I want is a normal hatchling/yearling. i'm not looking for anything fancy or extravagant. This is my first, and while I may want to breed later on, if that happens, i'll just make sure that I get some good breeding stock later on down the road. :)
There is a list of vendors on the website. I've looked at their websites, but most of them don't have anything available due to it not being breeding season yet.
LOL - well at least you know there's something beautiful behind the cardboard. :) Okay, that makes sense. I've heard that about the lights, but never about the CHEs. That's good to know. Thank you. :)
Yeah, i've got several 10 gallon aquariums laying around. I've heard that most snakes are skittish and nervous if they're in large enclosures, so I figured that it wouldn't be a bad thing to have an extra 10 gallon laying around just in case I do get a hatchling. Come to think about it, I might have a 20 laying around. I'm not 100% sure about that. lol - i'm scatterbrained right now.
Ok, that's good to hear. :) I'll be sure to get a thermostat. Is there a brand in particular you'd recommend? I've looked around, and have a list of snake supplies in word with prices and websites, but if there's a brand that's recommended that would be less likely to go on the fritz, i'm all ears. :) (or should I say eyes? lol)

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Originally Posted by kc261

A reptile show can be a great place to get your new pet! We got ours, a normal female, for $20 at a show last fall. Try to get a list of vendors ahead of time so you can determine who are the good guys to buy from!

I am using a 20L tank, because we like the idea of a visual display. As it turns out, during the winter we need to insulate all 4 sides, so for now it is a display of cardboard! But it was nice in the fall and will be nice again once the weather warms up again. Or we could just up the heat in the whole house but it isn't worth it. I am using 2 UTHs, a smaller one on the cool side. You can use a CHE or light, but those will both eat up the humidity.

The 10 gallon tank you mention would be great for a hatchling. Another reason to get a snake from a breeder!

You shouldn't have to worry about burning your snake with a UTH that is properly controlled by a t-stat.

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I go to the Kansas City show every time they have so if you would like some help finding a responsible breeder i could point you in the right way. I hope to pic up a jungle RTB or a Anery RTB. The best thing to do is cut cardboard to fit snugly around the screen and then duct tape till theres not really any extra air leaks except for where the card board ends on the other half of the screen. I just had the sliding screens.

Great! I am interested in finding a good breeder in the area. All I want is a CBB normal BP (Or a pastel if I can find one reasonably priced) - preferably eating f/t, and a young-ish snake. I know it's kind of hard to find a hatchling this time of year (it's usually in the spring/summer time, right?) but a yearling would even be ok with me. Something around the 1' - 2' range. Nothing that's full grown just yet. :) I'm almost 100% sure that i'll be there. There aren't any sporting events that'll interrupt my wanting to go.
Okay, that works for me. I don't know if most of these screens I find online are sliding or not. I imagine so, since there aren't any noticible doors/hatches/whatever on them.

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Originally Posted by Brett89

I go to the Kansas City show every time they have so if you would like some help finding a responsible breeder i could point you in the right way. I hope to pic up a jungle RTB or a Anery RTB. The best thing to do is cut cardboard to fit snugly around the screen and then duct tape till theres not really any extra air leaks except for where the card board ends on the other half of the screen. I just had the sliding screens.

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From what I've seen on this forum, hatching is almost a year round occurrence. Someone posted a 1st hatchling of the year thread a few days ago. Some breeders get started earlier than others, some snakes take longer before they eventually lay eggs. But definitely there will be lots more hatching going on in the summer.

Oh, ok I didn't know that. :) Thank you for letting me know! lol - I guess since they're not out in the wild, then people can control their environment to think it's earlier/later than the snake thinks. I know that there's the whole brumation thing to go through, too, but I always thought it was at a particular time of the year.

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Originally Posted by kc261

From what I've seen on this forum, hatching is almost a year round occurrence. Someone posted a 1st hatchling of the year thread a few days ago. Some breeders get started earlier than others, some snakes take longer before they eventually lay eggs. But definitely there will be lots more hatching going on in the summer.

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BPs don't actually brumate. That's only for snakes native to areas that have a colder winter than they do in Africa.

I've read about some BP breeders "cooling" their snakes, but I'm starting to get really out of the areas that I feel I know enough to talk about.

Someone there will have something that is close enough to a hatchling. Good breeders usually like to get 4 or 5 meals in their bps to make sure they're eating and growing right so most that you'll find will usually be at least 2 or 3 months old. Still small enough to get used to, but big enough and old enough to know there aren't any noticable problems with the snake.

Welcome, a lot of large breeders have a bounty of normal baby balls that are very nice for really good prices, under a hundred shipped to your house. The reason, on there quest for the next newest, craziest morph out there usually end up with a lot of normals in the process. I would poke around some more before you make a decision.

EbN
The Snake Keeper
8 Ball Pythons
NERD
Graziani Reptiles

There are ton of other smaller breeders out there also. You may want to check out the classifieds on Kingsnake.com

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Originally Posted by Brett89

Someone there will have something that is close enough to a hatchling. Good breeders usually like to get 4 or 5 meals in their bps to make sure they're eating and growing right so most that you'll find will usually be at least 2 or 3 months old. Still small enough to get used to, but big enough and old enough to know there aren't any noticable problems with the snake.

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Yes, this is what I was referring to when talking about getting a hatchling. I wouldn't recommend a fresh out of the egg hatchling. Thank you Brett for clarifying that.

If you can I would strongly recommend going with a tub over a tank. I have converted from tanks to tubs. I'll do a quick run down of pros cons for both.

Tank:
Pros
-Visible, great for display tanks
-Um....
-um....
-They are strudy?

Cons
-Heavy, which makes cleaning hard to do.
-Provide little security. Even with hides, being constantly exposed is very stressful to ball pythons.
-The do not keep humidity without making your "display tank" ugly. Duct tank and foil isn't aestatically pleasing to me.
-They also don't keep heat very well, because of the way glass is naturally. Glass is not made to retain heat.
-The screen tops with clips are useless. My BP got out with clips and duct tape on every corner.
-Costly

Tubs:
Pros
-Easy to clean
-Lightweight
-Holds humidity great
-Holds heat great
-Cheap. You can buy a good sized tub for $10 or so compared to $40 for a tank.
-Secure, not being exposed to light 24/7 provides security for the BP.

Cons
-Not good for displays

That is all I could think of off the top of my head. Many people on this forum started out using tanks and now swear by tubs.

Feeding. If you want to feed f/t that is fine, just make sure the snake is eating first before you try to switch. Try f/t the first time and if she takes it GREAT, if not get her going on live.

If you think feeding live if gross, wait until F/t. F/t is by FAR worse for me. Dethawing and heating dead things has its issues. I started on f/t. My snake took the first one I offer. I now breed rats and feed live. F/t is too much of a hassle imo.

Hope that saga helps you.:gj:

Well, that makes sense. :) I guess it just depends on the locality of the snake as to whether or not it needs to brumate then, correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

BPs don't actually brumate. That's only for snakes native to areas that have a colder winter than they do in Africa.

I've read about some BP breeders "cooling" their snakes, but I'm starting to get really out of the areas that I feel I know enough to talk about.

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I'm not looking for anything fresh out of the egg. :) If I were, i'd breed them myself (not until MUCH later, though.) All I want is a young-ish snake. lol - as long as they're not full grown adults, and they're in good health, that is enough to make me happy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett89

Someone there will have something that is close enough to a hatchling. Good breeders usually like to get 4 or 5 meals in their bps to make sure they're eating and growing right so most that you'll find will usually be at least 2 or 3 months old. Still small enough to get used to, but big enough and old enough to know there aren't any noticable problems with the snake.

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That's really good to know. :) So in some of those normals, would they be hets for anything (i.e. if mom was a pastel, and dad was a different morph, and some of the babies came out normal, would they be het for pastel & the other morph if there was one?) should I want to breed later on? I wouldn't mind getting a normal that's het for something, because by the time i'm ready to breed, they would be a good candidate, and i'd just have to get something else to breed with them. (of course after the quarrantining period.)
I'll be sure to check out those websites. :) i've seen and heard of 8 Ball Pythons - I've sent him a message on ReptileGeeks, but havne't heard back yet. I think i'll try and e-mail him to see what info I can get about his snakes.
I've been looking around at KS, but they didn't really have any normals that I could see. (I just did a search for normal ball python.) I'll keep an eye out, though. Thank you so much for your help. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

Welcome, a lot of large breeders have a bounty of normal baby balls that are very nice for really good prices, under a hundred shipped to your house. The reason, on there quest for the next newest, craziest morph out there usually end up with a lot of normals in the process. I would poke around some more before you make a decision.

EbN
The Snake Keeper
8 Ball Pythons
NERD
Graziani Reptiles

There are ton of other smaller breeders out there also. You may want to check out the classifieds on Kingsnake.com

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Yeah - I think the only time i'd have a fresh out of the egg hatchling would be if I were to breed them myself. :) I'm going to wait a while for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Yes, this is what I was referring to when talking about getting a hatchling. I wouldn't recommend a fresh out of the egg hatchling. Thank you Brett for clarifying that.

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Wow. Thank you for the information. :) I'll go with that option if the aquarium method doesn't pan out. The only thing is, with tubs, i'd have to drill holes for ventilation, correct? I've got a bunch of drill bits and a drill, but what i'm curious about is what size should I use to drill ventilation holes?
Also, what do you think about doing a DIY cage? I'd probably use Melamite (I think that's what it is - sort of a laminated MDF) with some ventilation and a glass/plexi-glass door in the front. Would that work, or would a tub be better? (If I were to build it I wouldn't worry so much about the cost - but that'll probably be a little ways down the road.)
It's not so much that it's gross to me, but i'm just a compasionate person by heart, I guess. I know that they were already killed but to see them being killed - I don't know. It wouldn't make me super-upset, because I know that snakes need that to live. (and if it wouldn't take anything but live prey, that's what I would do in order to make it thrive and be happy.) I also know that i'd have to watch the snake until the prey is killed before i'd leave it alone - just so I can make sure nothing happens. Do you stun the prey at all, or no? if I were to feed live, I think that's what i'd do, just as an extra precaution. This is just a lot of information to take on as a beginner, but i'm appreciative that everybody is trying to help me. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

If you can I would strongly recommend going with a tub over a tank. I have converted from tanks to tubs. I'll do a quick run down of pros cons for both.

Tank:
Pros
-Visible, great for display tanks
-Um....
-um....
-They are strudy?

Cons
-Heavy, which makes cleaning hard to do.
-Provide little security. Even with hides, being constantly exposed is very stressful to ball pythons.
-The do not keep humidity without making your "display tank" ugly. Duct tank and foil isn't aestatically pleasing to me.
-They also don't keep heat very well, because of the way glass is naturally. Glass is not made to retain heat.
-The screen tops with clips are useless. My BP got out with clips and duct tape on every corner.
-Costly

Tubs:
Pros
-Easy to clean
-Lightweight
-Holds humidity great
-Holds heat great
-Cheap. You can buy a good sized tub for $10 or so compared to $40 for a tank.
-Secure, not being exposed to light 24/7 provides security for the BP.

Cons
-Not good for displays

That is all I could think of off the top of my head. Many people on this forum started out using tanks and now swear by tubs.

Feeding. If you want to feed f/t that is fine, just make sure the snake is eating first before you try to switch. Try f/t the first time and if she takes it GREAT, if not get her going on live.

If you think feeding live if gross, wait until F/t. F/t is by FAR worse for me. Dethawing and heating dead things has its issues. I started on f/t. My snake took the first one I offer. I now breed rats and feed live. F/t is too much of a hassle imo.

Hope that saga helps you.:gj:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suzy

So in some of those normals, would they be hets for anything (i.e. if mom was a pastel, and dad was a different morph, and some of the babies came out normal, would they be het for pastel & the other morph if there was one?)

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BP morphs are still expensive enough that even the hets and often possible hets will still cost more than a normal.

Corn snakes on the other hand, have had so many morphs for so long that some breeders don't bother to keep track of which snakes might be het for the more common morphs. So you might buy a "normal" that is actually het for something, but then you have the problem you don't know if it is het, or het for what.

Getting back to BPs, if you think it is likely you will want to breed in the future, I'd recommend starting out with a female, as they take longer to reach an appropriate breeding size. If you can afford a female het for something you like, go ahead. Otherwise, you can still get morph offspring in your first breeding by going with one of the dom or co-dom morphs.

Which brings me to another point... there is no such thing as "het for pastel" because pastel is a co-dom morph. That means if the snake carries the genetics for it, you can see a visible expression of the gene. If a snake carries 1 pastel gene, you get a regular pastel. If it carries 2, you get a super pastel, which is even brighter than a regular pastel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suzy

That's really good to know. :) So in some of those normals, would they be hets for anything (i.e. if mom was a pastel, and dad was a different morph, and some of the babies came out normal, would they be het for pastel & the other morph if there was one?) should I want to breed later on? I wouldn't mind getting a normal that's het for something, because by the time i'm ready to breed, they would be a good candidate, and i'd just have to get something else to breed with them. (of course after the quarrantining period.)
I'll be sure to check out those websites. :) i've seen and heard of 8 Ball Pythons - I've sent him a message on ReptileGeeks, but havne't heard back yet. I think i'll try and e-mail him to see what info I can get about his snakes.
I've been looking around at KS, but they didn't really have any normals that I could see. (I just did a search for normal ball python.) I'll keep an eye out, though. Thank you so much for your help. :)

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Unless you buy it as a het, there is no way to tell if or what it is het for. Pastels and several other morphs are co-dominant, so there are no hets for them. Co-doms are actually visual hets for a super form, so it's either a pastel or it's not. If you are thinking about possibly breeding at some point down the road, there are several morphs or hets you can get that are about what you are looking to spend. You can most likely find a male pastel or yellowbelly (het for ivory) for around $100 - $150, and male hets for albinos and ghosts for $75 or less, and even males het for clown and piebald are down to $150 - $200. I also would be very concerned about buying an animal off of CL, especially since you are new. I would definitely wait until the local show and spend that time looking into the vendors and the kind of ball python you want to get.

Okay, that's good to know. The hets would still be a little cheaper than the actual morph, right? I'll probably just look for a normal, but if I get a good deal on a het or an actual morph, i'll swoop that up. :)
Yeah, that's what I noticed with corns as well. There's a LOT of morphs, and it's hard to keep track of them.
Ok, i'll keep that in mind. :) Females do get a little larger than a male, right? (i've read 3 - 5 feet for a female - is that about right?)
LOL - as for the pastels - it was the only morph I could think of at the time - I really don't have much of a clue about morphs and genetics, etc. I just threw it out there. I should really start reading about morphs and genetics on this board. But for now, i'm just going to worry about husbandry and everything that is associated with that. Some day, i'll dive in and figure it out. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

BP morphs are still expensive enough that even the hets and often possible hets will still cost more than a normal.

Corn snakes on the other hand, have had so many morphs for so long that some breeders don't bother to keep track of which snakes might be het for the more common morphs. So you might buy a "normal" that is actually het for something, but then you have the problem you don't know if it is het, or het for what.

Getting back to BPs, if you think it is likely you will want to breed in the future, I'd recommend starting out with a female, as they take longer to reach an appropriate breeding size. If you can afford a female het for something you like, go ahead. Otherwise, you can still get morph offspring in your first breeding by going with one of the dom or co-dom morphs.

Which brings me to another point... there is no such thing as "het for pastel" because pastel is a co-dom morph. That means if the snake carries the genetics for it, you can see a visible expression of the gene. If a snake carries 1 pastel gene, you get a regular pastel. If it carries 2, you get a super pastel, which is even brighter than a regular pastel.

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Oh, and if you do end up going with live, don't stun it. Just learn how to feed live properly and your snake will be fine. Stunning the mouse/rat is much more cruel. You can end up not hitting hard enough to stun it.... OUCH poor mouse. Or you can end up stunning it, but not enough that it stays stunned until the snake eats it. Then you end up with a hurt and therefore far more dangerous mouse in with your snake. Or you can end up hitting it too hard and killing it, and if your snake is truly a "live food only" type that won't even take a fresh kill, then you've wasted that life, unless you have something else to do with a dead mouse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suzy

That's really good to know. :) So in some of those normals, would they be hets for anything (i.e. if mom was a pastel, and dad was a different morph, and some of the babies came out normal, would they be het for pastel & the other morph if there was one?) should I want to breed later on? I wouldn't mind getting a normal that's het for something, because by the time i'm ready to breed, they would be a good candidate, and i'd just have to get something else to breed with them. (of course after the quarrantining period.)
I'll be sure to check out those websites. :) i've seen and heard of 8 Ball Pythons - I've sent him a message on ReptileGeeks, but havne't heard back yet. I think i'll try and e-mail him to see what info I can get about his snakes.
I've been looking around at KS, but they didn't really have any normals that I could see. (I just did a search for normal ball python.) I'll keep an eye out, though. Thank you so much for your help. :)

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this is the easiest way to explain hets and what comes of what when breeding with out getting to scientific although this does explain things incredibly well and its easy on the eyes and brain.

Building your own caging wouldn't be cost effective. If you had a huge 10ft burm it would be, but when you can buy a whole enclosure for almost the price of one sheet of Melamine.

For ventalation I use a soldering iron. Goes through like butter. I do two hole one on top of each other about an inch apart( looks like this : : : : :) The iron cost me a whole $6 at Ace. If you do this I suggest doing it in a WELL ventalated area. Burning plastic is very gross.


Please don't stun prey. It is viewed as cruel, but imo puts your BP at more risk, unless you know how hard you have to hit it. If you don't hit it hard enough it can wake up and will be very agressive. Many bites happen this way. Also a flopping around mouse bleeding out of its mouth, imo is more upsetting than a mouse being constricted and killed almost instantly.

If you can get a morph I would suggest it or even a female normal. Just incase you have future breeding plans.

That's what I figured. If it's not marked as a het for something, then i'll just consider it a normal unless proven otherwise.
Oh, ok. Those are really reasonable prices on the hets. That's really good to know. :)
Yeah, i've decided against ever going to CL for a snake. Especially after the saga with the breeder from last night. I figured if I could wait for a year to get a snake, what's another month? I'll be patient and wait it out. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Unless you buy it as a het, there is no way to tell if or what it is het for. Pastels and several other morphs are co-dominant, so there are no hets for them. Co-doms are actually visual hets for a super form, so it's either a pastel or it's not. If you are thinking about possibly breeding at some point down the road, there are several morphs or hets you can get that are about what you are looking to spend. You can most likely find a male pastel or yellowbelly (het for ivory) for around $100 - $150, and male hets for albinos and ghosts for $75 or less, and even males het for clown and piebald are down to $150 - $200. I also would be very concerned about buying an animal off of CL, especially since you are new. I would definitely wait until the local show and spend that time looking into the vendors and the kind of ball python you want to get.

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Oh, ok. I never knew about any of that. Thank you for the info. If I do feed live, i'll just pay close attention to the snake, and if it's not interested, take the prey out of the cage after 20 - 30 minutes. I'm still not sure which method i'll be doing until I get the snake. If it's feeding fine on live, then i'll continue that method, and might start breeding my own feeders if I have enough snakes to supply that. If not, I can find someone locally that breeds them and go that route.
I do have cats that might consider it a snack, but i'd be more worried about the snake being able to eat first. :) Plus, I don't want to put the mouse/rat through any more pain than is necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Oh, and if you do end up going with live, don't stun it. Just learn how to feed live properly and your snake will be fine. Stunning the mouse/rat is much more cruel. You can end up not hitting hard enough to stun it.... OUCH poor mouse. Or you can end up stunning it, but not enough that it stays stunned until the snake eats it. Then you end up with a hurt and therefore far more dangerous mouse in with your snake. Or you can end up hitting it too hard and killing it, and if your snake is truly a "live food only" type that won't even take a fresh kill, then you've wasted that life, unless you have something else to do with a dead mouse.

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That's good to know. :) I probably won't be getting into any larger snakes until I don't have cats anymore. I'd be too worried about the cats becoming food. (i'm so neurotic sometimes.)
Well, I think I might have a soldering iron around here somewhere. (My mom used to work for an aviation company that built the electronic boards, and she had several soldering irons from there.) If not, I'm pretty sure I could afford $6. And I know about the smell. lol - i've smelled burning plastic, and it was not very pleasant.
I never knew about the stunning thing, so I will be sure not to do so. :) I don't want to cause any more pain to the prey than is necessary. (i.e. let the snake do it's job instead of interfering.)
I will most definitely look for a female. :) Most likely she'll be a normal, but maybe i'll get a morph of something. If not this year, then next year, definitely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

Building your own caging wouldn't be cost effective. If you had a huge 10ft burm it would be, but when you can buy a whole enclosure for almost the price of one sheet of Melamine.

For ventalation I use a soldering iron. Goes through like butter. I do two hole one on top of each other about an inch apart( looks like this : : : : :) The iron cost me a whole $6 at Ace. If you do this I suggest doing it in a WELL ventalated area. Burning plastic is very gross.


Please don't stun prey. It is viewed as cruel, but imo puts your BP at more risk, unless you know how hard you have to hit it. If you don't hit it hard enough it can wake up and will be very agressive. Many bites happen this way. Also a flopping around mouse bleeding out of its mouth, imo is more upsetting than a mouse being constricted and killed almost instantly.

If you can get a morph I would suggest it or even a female normal. Just incase you have future breeding plans.

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I'm glad you are proactive, open to suggestions, and willing you learn. With that attitude people will constantly throw info at you. Try your best to absorb the most you can. :gj:

Experience will be your greatest friend. Don't be scared to ask stupid questions. We are here to help.

Well, the way I see it is if I was hard-headed about something I had no clue about, i'd never learn. My mind is a sponge, and i'm willing to absorb any info that anyone is willing to share with me. You guys have a lot more experience than I do, so it's kind of like the teacher and the student. :)
I question everything, so don't be surprised to see me on here a lot asking questions when I get my new BP. lol - I read a lot, and I ask a lot. That's me in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

I'm glad you are proactive, open to suggestions, and willing you learn. With that attitude people will constantly throw info at you. Try your best to absorb the most you can. :gj:

Experience will be your greatest friend. Don't be scared to ask stupid questions. We are here to help.

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If you are interested in reading I strongly suggest "The Complete Ball Python" By Kevin McCurley. It is a bit pricey at $60, but the information inside is astounding. It has everything: Ton of morphs with pictures and histories, everything you need to know about breeding, feeding, husbandry. Pretty much all you need to know about a ball python besides anatomy type stuff.

http://newenglandreptile.com/book.html

You could actually get a pastel male really cheap. I got mine for 150 and sometimes you can find breeders that have to many and would get rid of them cheaper...like 100. But it just depends on who you buy from and if its that time that they have a surplus.

I was actually just looking at Graziani reptiles' website, and they've got a male pastel for $250 - I found a normal het for albino for $100. Those sound like really good deals. I've heard his name around the BP community somewhere - I just can't remember where. I believe it's a morph of some sort. Maybe a pastel or something.
I'll make sure to keep an eye out, though. I think that pastels are the most beautiful (other than leucistic and pied) that i've seen around. I'd love to get my hands on one. I'd prefer a female, but it's harder to find a het or even a pastel for what i'm looking at. I'll find one eventually, though. :) Patience is a virtue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett89

You could actually get a pastel male really cheap. I got mine for 150 and sometimes you can find breeders that have to many and would get rid of them cheaper...like 100. But it just depends on who you buy from and if its that time that they have a surplus.

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I'm going to find a copy of that and check it out. Is there anywhere in particular you'd recommend going to find it? I imagine e-bay and half.com would have it, but if i'm going to spend the money on the book, it should go to the person who wrote it. Would you say it's a good guide to breeding and more advanced knowledge?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

If you are interested in reading I strongly suggest "The Complete Ball Python" By Kevin McCurley. It is a bit pricey at $60, but the information inside is astounding. It has everything: Ton of morphs with pictures and histories, everything you need to know about breeding, feeding, husbandry. Pretty much all you need to know about a ball python besides anatomy type stuff.

http://newenglandreptile.com/book.html

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The link that was already given to you will allow you to buy the book directly from NERD, which is owned by Kevin McCurley, who wrote that book. So it is the best way to get the money to the person who wrote it! :) I have not personally read it, but everyone seems to think it is a fabulous book and it does include advanced stuff including stuff about breeding.

Another book that is very highly recommended is Pythons of the World, Vol II: Ball Pythons, by the Barkers who own VPI. Here is a recent thread comparing the 2: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=58994

What Casey said is correct. You have to order it from the guy himself, which is the link I provided.

Oh, ok. Great! Thank you so much for the info. :) I'll probably wait a month or two before I get it, but i'll keep that website bookmarked.
Okay, cool! I'll check that out, too. :)

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Originally Posted by kc261

The link that was already given to you will allow you to buy the book directly from NERD, which is owned by Kevin McCurley, who wrote that book. So it is the best way to get the money to the person who wrote it! :) I have not personally read it, but everyone seems to think it is a fabulous book and it does include advanced stuff including stuff about breeding.

Another book that is very highly recommended is Pythons of the World, Vol II: Ball Pythons, by the Barkers who own VPI. Here is a recent thread comparing the 2: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=58994

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lol - i'm so sorry I missed that! I must not have been paying attention. Thanks for the link, i'll bookmark it right now. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

What Casey said is correct. You have to order it from the guy himself, which is the link I provided.

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