Compatibility..?

Hey all. For the most part I understand the genetics of BP morphs. What combined with what makes what and codom and recessive and het etc it is all easy as pie thanks to my experience breeding other species and dabbling in equine and canine genetics.

My question is in regards to compatibility. I think I understand, just curious to see an actual list of what is not compatible.

So.. What lines are not compatible with one another?

Depends on the morph...


Axanthics - SK and VPI are not compatible. Joliff I'm not sure, but as I understand it, not compatible either.

Ghosts- Orange, Yellow, Butterscotch and Citrus all compatible. Other lines are questionable (Green, Blue, etc... (Up for debate)

LadyOhh.. thanks, I was wondering about the ghosts/hypos.

Are any of the pastels not compatible with eachother? or I'm thinking the different lines are just different color expressions of the same gene?

To add, I know that the albino lines such as the lavender vs the caramel and the regular are all different genes. I'm mostly thinking of the color variations I see in animals with the same 'title.' I do understand that color varies naturally, some animals just have brighter or darker or more orange etc etc color than others with the same genes. I'm trying to figure out what is the color variation vs what is a separate gene.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Depends on the morph...


Axanthics - SK and VPI are not compatible. Joliff I'm not sure, but as I understand it, not compatible either.

Ghosts- Orange, Yellow, Butterscotch and Citrus all compatible. Other lines are questionable (Green, Blue, etc... (Up for debate)

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I am not sure that the citrus and the rest mix well. i could be wrong but I think citrus is an oddball out too.

Yeah Garys right Citrus and the yellow dont mix with the others...the orange and green lines are actually the exact same line,NERD just did some selective breeding for color...

and none of the main axanthic lines are compatible either VPI,SK or Joliff

OKAY:

To outline again then:

Orange, Yellow, Butterscotch = Compatible

Blue, Green, Citrus = Not (?)


I was under the impression that someone had proved out some of these lines to be compatible....

I'm not up on the Ghost thing.

LOL no prob heather...to many freakin lines out there and everyone calls em all one or the other no matter what they really might be which makes it even more confusing..

yellow and citrus not compatible with anything...

BLue...dont even know what that is

And orange and green are the exact same line...orange is just a bred for color green ghost and that is compatible with butterscotch or atleast that what everyone says

Here is a link showing a blue ghost/hypo: http://www.grazianireptiles.com/coll...lanistic-2.jpg

I have seen yellows refered to as butterscotch and visa versa, and the Graziani website says: "Here at Graziani Reptiles, we have proven several different Hypo mutations to be compatible and they are as follows: Blue Ghost, Green Ghost, Yellow/Butterscotch ghost and orange ghost."

This is where I get confused as everyone has a different name for different color variations and I can't tell which are different genes or just different color mutations of the same gene.

What about the pastels? Lemon vs jungle vs mandarin vs .. ?
I'm thinking they are all the same gene just different color expression, and thus compatible.

thats the problem Bulldog everyone calls everything the same thing without knowing exactly which line it is...

Way back in the day there were 3 lines...and there still basically are there was Gregs F1 line that was referred to as the yellow ghosts,Mark Bells line which was the butterscotch ghosts which over time has been called yellow and NERDs Green ghost line which is the same as the orange ghost which seems to be the choice of almost everyone out there to call there ghost wether it actually is or not..

The Bell line and NERDs line are compatible,but they arent compatible with grazianis line and the citrus is something pretty new and isnt compatible with the other 3 lines

Now as far as the Blue goes...that just looks like a butterscotch jsut a lil on the dark side is all

another Big problem comes with compatiblilty issues is that EVERY freaking new hypo that gets imported gets sold as an Orange ghost,and there is no way of knowing wether or not those are going to be compatible with any of the other lines without breeding to see...But as long you stay with one of the lines that you know is compatible there really isnt much of a problem

:D Equine genetics are so much easier to understand. This is like the brindle color variations in dogs and the issues with white patterning names i.e. irish, bodysuit, mantle etc.

I like ghosts, love the combos they produce. One of my favorite morphs is the honeybee (I'm a huge spider fan..)

I just love to learn, especially about genetics. :cool: Around here I'm not wierd, but around family I'm considered :crazy:

LOL if it makes it any easier all the hypo/ghost lines are sstill simple recessive LOL

and i TOTALLY understand what your saying...its always a good time when snake folks come by the shop to hang out,you would think we were all talking in latin or something from the looks we get LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gib

yellow and citrus not compatible with anything...

BLue...dont even know what that is

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Since when are Yellow Ghost not Compatible with Orange, Butterscotch and Greens???

Also, I think that Gulf Coast proved there Citrus Line compatible with Orange, Butterscotch, Etc...

The Blue Hypos are Graziani Reptiles Line and are compatible with other lines...

Check out this link...
http://www.grazianireptiles.com/collection/hypo.htm

LOL yeah :D

I know hypo is a simple recessive. I don't have any issues with understanding recessive, dominant, and codominant genes I have a firm grasp on that from my interest in dilute and paint horses. Dogs are far more confusing than BP genetics though, with the number of black inhibitor genes there are and how differently they show, combined with white patterning, length and type of coat, dilution, and all that jazz. I still get some of that mixed up sometimes, just so much going on there.

I love how everybody is an expert but nobody agrees on anything :D keeps life so interesting, doesn't it? (Not referring to anyone on this board, I'm thinking of an argument relating to dog color genetics)

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Since when are Yellow Ghost not Compatible with Orange, Butterscotch and Greens???

Also, I think that Gulf Coast proved there Citrus Line compatible with Orange, Butterscotch, Etc...

The Blue Hypos are Graziani Reptiles Line and are compatible with other lines...

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See, this is where I get confused :cool: I guess I just need to do more researching and whatnot.

Keep 'em comin', guys! I love to learn about this sort of stuff

Also remember that "ghosts" get imported every year. And we do not know if they can be mixed in. Many just say hey it looks like this so it has to be. But sometimes it is not. And sometimes it can not pass on the genes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Since when are Yellow Ghost not Compatible with Orange, Butterscotch and Greens???

Also, I think that Gulf Coast proved there Citrus Line compatible with Orange, Butterscotch, Etc...

The Blue Hypos are Graziani Reptiles Line and are compatible with other lines...

Check out this link...
http://www.grazianireptiles.com/collection/hypo.htm

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Yellow Ghost are compatible with Orange, Butterscotch and Greens...
BT

I thought so also BT. Hell I was beginning to get concerned with my adult yellow ghost female. Thinking that she will be incompatible just breaks my heart.

In all honesty people do worry about them being incompatible. I am selling a honeybee male right now and the buyer is pretty worried because he has heard of people breeding ghosts and getting all normal looking offspring. I don't know how many different lines there are out there.

Brock

I here ya Brock...People tend to say things that they have no idea what their talking about - Before you now it - It's all over the forums and people get worried and panic - It's shame...I wouldn't sweat it - The majority of time I just read the BS and smile...Makes for a good chuckle...:D
BT

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Originally Posted by BT41042

Yellow Ghost are compatible with Orange, Butterscotch and Greens...
BT

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Yeah I know...It's in the link to Graziani...

Gib was saying that Yellows aren't compatible.

Also I checked with Gulf Coast and the Citrus are compatible with the other lines...

well I have a pair of dbl het yellow/orange hypos at the house that i picked up from Jason last year....he produced dbl hets from different hypos lines 2 years in a row that were supposed to compatible...But your right BT i have no idea what im talking about....And as ffor the yellow being uncompatible im talking about grazianis line...not the bells line which started out as the butterscotch,but like the nerd line green has been called something different than what it started out being...

And this is why I wanted to lay it all out there...

SO!

In short:

Yellow, Orange, Butterscotch, Green= Compatible

Blue and Citrus on the fence???

Hell, I have Bell Line...

The problem still is that ghosts are still imported a lot. And all can be new lines.

And then we have one type of snake being called two different things and maybe two types being called one type.

As long as your talking bell line and nerd line(yellow,butterscotch and nerds green/orange) then yes they are compatible

As long as you know exactly what line your working with there really isnt any problem

But like gary said is that there are tons of hypos imported every year and they all sell them as orange ghosts for the most part with no idea wether or not is actually compatible adn thats where the problems arise....

Heh, well I'm glad I asked and then also on the fence about having asked :P :D

Since noboby has answered my question about pastels I'm going to assume that pastels are compatible due to just being different color expressions of the same gene.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBalls

Heh, well I'm glad I asked and then also on the fence about having asked :P :D

Since noboby has answered my question about pastels I'm going to assume that pastels are compatible due to just being different color expressions of the same gene.

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Yeah the different lines, Graziani, Blondes, Lemons, etc are compatible...

Enchis or what some people still call Enchi Pastels are not compatible with the others mentioned...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

And this is why I wanted to lay it all out there...

SO!

In short:

Yellow, Orange, Butterscotch, Green= Compatible

Blue and Citrus on the fence???

Hell, I have Bell Line...

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In the link I posted to Graziani's site, he says the Blue Hypo is compatible with the others...

Also I checked with Gulf Coast and the Citrus are compatible with the other lines...

So basically everything is compatible with everything with the exception of what is being imported????

i still dont get how the sk anaxthics and the vpi are not compatible if some one could explain that please. it confuses me and if they are anaxthics why are they not compatible.

The Snake Keeper line and the VPI line are not compatible.

Ergo, if you breed the two together, you would get double hets.

They may have a difference in genetic expression, alleles or genotypes. No one knows for sure, as no one has done genetic DNA testing on them.

They are both visibly Axanthic, but they are Axanthic differently.

Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated. If anyone has any others to add, feel free! :)

thats wacky so the dh for that would be dh anax then right

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

So basically everything is compatible with everything with the exception of what is being imported????

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Looks that way...

I would be very cautious when buying Hypos or Hets from someone...I would want to know if the Parents are from proven lines or WC...

In 02 I bought a pair of WC Hypos...In 04 I bred the male Hypo to a Proven 100% het Hypo and got all Normals...It's possible I missed on the odds or he's a non compatible Hypo...I bred him back to his daughter this year and produced 6 Hypos out of 6 eggs!!! Still working on trying to prove him compatible with other established lines...I had a few customers show interest in this project and have sold some of the hets and Hypos from this line...Everyone knew exactly what they were buying...Hypos or 100% het Hypos from my CBA Line that may not be compatible with other lines...

WC Hypo Male
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t1and2068s.jpg


Last year I finally got the female Hypo to go...I bred my Proven Butterscotch Hypo male to her and got all Normals!!! She's definitely not compatible with the other lines...I am going to breed 1 of her sons back to her and a pair together...I still have all of these babies...

WC Hypo female x Butterscotch Hypo
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...host107003.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...26eggs001l.jpg

i have to say jon i love your hypos

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Originally Posted by Monty

thats wacky so the dh for that would be dh anax then right

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Yes. Double het for VPI and SK Line Axanthic

i think thats crazy how pastels are compatible. but then axanthic youll get a double het for axanthic when they aren't compatible. then when u breed those dh's back do u get an all silver and black snake or one that looks to be the same as a regular axanthic. and brown out as it ages or bronze out which ever term you prefer

That question is a good one, and I don't know the answer.

I'm not sure if there are many people out there working on the double visual Axanthic, or even the triple.

I'm sure there are some, but I'm not aware.

cuz i was thinking about trying it but i dont want to follow a breeding that wont pan out. im hoping that this winter will be my first pastel eggs ever and maybe some het albino to het albino eggs. maybe if im lucky and get me a female albino this season thats over 800 grams though i know ill prolly be payin a pretty penny for that.

and i might try the sk and vpi line axanthic breeding later on but i'll keep looking around to see if anyone is working on that would be kinda cool to see.

Jon I would be very interested in a pair of hets or even ghosts from that line you have. Really!

Also another great example of this is in BOAs.

Sharp Albino and kahl Albino. You can not mix the two and get albinos.

Jon are you gonna try to breed the WC Male ghost to the WC Female ghost. If they came in the country at the same time from the same area maybe they are compatible ya never know.

On the Compatiblity discussion. As said before Hypo/Ghost is one of the most common to get imported that and Yellowbelly. Which I think alot of the Yellow Bellies getting imported are snakes with yellow tint or a clear belly as you see about a million YB's and NO IVORIES. Has to be something going on here ya know.

All the established hypo lines appear to be compatible except for Grazianis G1 line. The citrus was also proven to be compatible.

That there is a line that has proven to be incompatible would lead me to believe there can or will be others - so buy with caution - especially if it is a WC or a het from a WC hypo.