Feeding live mice and rats is dangerous... Wives tale?

Lets settle this thing once and for all.

You should not leave your snake alone with a live rat or mouse. The Rat / Mouse should not be bigger around then the thickest part of your snake. If you drop the rodent in, and watch to make sure your snake kills it within 20 minutes, the rodent will not hurt your snake.

So here is the question. Has anyones snake ever been bitten during the struggle of the snake constricting the rodent? If your snake was bitten, was it a cut that quickly healed? Did it leave a scar? If so, please post a picture of the scar as proof for all to see.

I belive it is perfectly safe to feed snakes live rodents as long as it is done correctly. Prove me wrong if you can.

Mike

The only time I've ever had a problem with live was when the rat's teeth got lodged under scale and when the snake constricted it pushed the teeth into the flesh. Some antibiotic ointment and a shed later and he was right as rain.

I try to get all of mine on F/T, since it's easier/more convenient for me.

I have seen photos of BPs that have been "chewed" on by prey, but don't have any firsthand experience with problems feeding live, so this should be an interesting thread.

Here's the thing: People can't really prove or disprove this - it is very much a matter of opinion or preference on the part of the owner.

Yes: unsupervised tossing a live rodent or one too large in with your snake injuries and accidents have happened, however - with knowledge of appropriate prey size, pre-feeding and hydrating the rat or mouse, supervising the 'dinner hour' (or minute in some cases) a lot of those 'accidents' can be avoided.

Yes: some captive animals may seem to have a weakened feeding response, which may cause them to not kill their prey quickly and a bite could occur...

However: Snakes eat live prey in the wild - they're hungry when they strike the prey, they kill it, they eat it - and they survive through it all the time...

There are also just the plain irresponsible pet owners out there where these incidents become more cases of 'neglect' - it's the same principal with how snakes end up becoming rescues with burns from heat elements that shouldn't have been used or were unregulated... Does it mean we shouldn't use heating equipment appropriately and responsibly? Definately not.

I don't feed live because it is very difficult in my area to find appropriately sized feeders live, and I don't have enough snakes for breeding my own to be effective. I have a great supplier of frozen rats, and Kitty doesn't seem to mind at all that they are already dead. Even so, if I'm in a pet store and they happen to have a live rat of an appropriate size, she'd get one as a 'treat' - and at feeding time I would be standing close by with the lid off her tub until the rat was dead, but it hasn't happened yet!

I have seen snakes get bitten while constricting the rodents. Some of the places were the face and neck. I am not for or against live or frozen. I use frozen myself.

Ok, I forgot to mention one key rule for this thread.

I AM ONLY LOOKING FOR FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES HERE. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE READ, OR HEARD, OR WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FRIENDS SNAKE. I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES, FEEDING YOUR SNAKES, FIRST HAND.


THANKS.

I have fed snakes everything from baby pigs to pinks, all live, never had a problem. The chances of your ball getting bitten by its prey is far less than the advantages they receive from ingesting live prey. My opinion.:D

Well I don't keep counts of what I have fed, I know I feed 21 snakes every weeks and none of them as ever sustained an injury.

It's all about being knowledgeable and feed responsibly.

This is MY experience ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Lets settle this thing once and for all.

You should not leave your snake alone with a live rat or mouse. The Rat / Mouse should not be bigger around then the thickest part of your snake. If you drop the rodent in, and watch to make sure your snake kills it within 20 minutes, the rodent will not hurt your snake.

So here is the question. Has anyones snake ever been bitten during the struggle of the snake constricting the rodent? If your snake was bitten, was it a cut that quickly healed? Did it leave a scar? If so, please post a picture of the scar as proof for all to see.

I belive it is perfectly safe to feed snakes live rodents as long as it is done correctly. Prove me wrong if you can.

Mike

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Mike, we aren't going to "settle this once and for all" in any thread any where on any forum on the net and no one is likely going to "prove" anything one way or the other.

In the end this site supports all responsible feeding decisions when it comes to type of prey or method of presenting that prey for feeding. That's one of the many things that makes BPNet a very special place, as far as I'm concerned. :)

I have had snake get bitten and scratched during live feeds - it takes a split second whether you are feeding responsibly or not - if you think it never happens you are deluding yourself.

Over the years I've gotten many snakes into my rescue that have lost tongues and eyes and have gotten sever infections due to untreated rodent bites. I had one that was turned over to the vet with a rat dangling out of it's mouth - it had bitten through the bottom of the snakes mouth during constriction - the owner didn't want to be bothered with the vet bill so decided to relinquish the animal instead. If you don't think it never happens you are deluding yourself.

I have paid good money to top breeders to receive snakes with obvious rodent scars - people post pictures on line of their beautiful snakes - they have obvious scars - what you think we don't notice them? People post pictures of their snake bites all the time - look under the "what is this?" posts.

If you think it never happens ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Ok, I forgot to mention one key rule for this thread.

I AM ONLY LOOKING FOR FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES HERE. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE READ, OR HEARD, OR WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FRIENDS SNAKE. I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES, FEEDING YOUR SNAKES, FIRST HAND.


THANKS.

---

If this helps, I feed live every week ... on average, over the last 10+ years I have gone through approximately 400 live rodents per week (this year I'm feeding over 700 live per week, 10 years ago it was 100 - 200 ... so 400 is an average over the last decade) ... I feed every week out of the year ... so if you figure; 400 rats per week x 52 weeks per year x 10 years ... that's 200,000+ live feedings over the last 10 years and that is a conservative estimate ... with all of those feedings, I have never had a single bite, scratch, or mauling.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If this helps, I feed live every week ... on average, over the last 10+ years I have gone through approximately 400 live rodents per week (this year I'm feeding over 700 live per week, 10 years ago it was 100 - 200 ... so 400 is an average over the last decade) ... I feed every week out of the year ... so if you figure; 400 rats per week x 52 weeks per year x 10 years ... that's 200,000+ live feedings over the last 10 years and that is a conservative estimate ... with all of those feedings, I have never had a single bite, scratch, or mauling.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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WORD!! I would never feed a DEAD rodent to my snakes. They are not Voltures you know??

Live all for it never a problem, never a delayed feeding response. I did try f/t under advice recieved from this form. HATED it, never again.

I am a youngster at this game...but I have fed live from the get go. I have recently started feeding larger rats to by various Bp's with no problems. As a little precaution I do "thump" my rats to stun them prior to droping them in...they are alive, just not as rowdy.

I feed primarily live, and never had a problem-because I supervise and remove the rodent if it isn't eaten within about ten minutes.

When I owned a reptile shop, I had several snakes, including balls, brought in over the years with horrible, disfiguring injuries from being gnawed by rodents. Some of these snakes died or had to be euthanized. This was ALWAYS the result of leaving prey in with a snake unattended. Often for 12 hours to several days!

Rodent injuries do happen but they are always the fault of the keeper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If this helps, I feed live every week ... on average, over the last 10+ years I have gone through approximately 400 live rodents per week (this year I'm feeding over 700 live per week, 10 years ago it was 100 - 200 ... so 400 is an average over the last decade) ... I feed every week out of the year ... so if you figure; 400 rats per week x 52 weeks per year x 10 years ... that's 200,000+ live feedings over the last 10 years and that is a conservative estimate ... with all of those feedings, I have never had a single bite, scratch, or mauling.

Hope this helps.

-adam

---

Priceless.

You know, with over 200k live feedings, if he has never had an issue.... that says an aweful lot. I will play those odds any day of the week.

Tosha, you are breaking the rules. you are not talking about first hand experiences... you are talking about rescue turn ins. There is no telling what really happened there... The person may have said "I was feeding my snake, and the rat attacked!" what they didn't tell you was that the rat was probably in the tank for 2 days... or that it was a large rat with 100g snake. Please, first hand experiences only.

Franky, I am not trying to say anyone is doing anything wrong, or that one way is better than the other. I mostly feed f/t because that is what works for me. The point of this thread is to show that if you follow the rules, there is NOTHING wrong with feeding live. So far this thread has shown just that. the only person who has clamed injuries so far was talking about what happened to someone else... without knowing the facts of what REALL?Y happened.

My Hognose snake (my other snake, a checkered garter, doesn't eat mice) has never been hurt by a rodent because the rodents I feed him are already dead :rofl:.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

WORD!! I would never feed a DEAD rodent to my snakes. They are not Voltures you know??

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Snakes aren't scavengers by nature, but it's safer to feed dead rodents than live ones. Most people here who feed live rodents to their snakes know what they're doing, but feeding dead has no risks (unless your snake won't eat it) while feeding live, no matter how safe you can be, has its risks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Onua Nuva

Snakes aren't scavengers by nature, but it's safer to feed dead rodents than live ones. Most people here who feed live rodents to their snakes know what they're doing, but feeding dead has no risks (unless your snake won't eat it) while feeding live, no matter how safe you can be, has its risks.

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What are the risks? what are you basing this on? Have you ever had a snake injured while trying to kill a rodent?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Onua Nuva

Snakes aren't scavengers by nature, but it's safer to feed dead rodents than live ones. Most people here who feed live rodents to their snakes know what they're doing, but feeding dead has no risks (unless your snake won't eat it) while feeding live, no matter how safe you can be, has its risks.

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Your right! Dimwits should not feed live rodents to there snakes!:bow:

I bought a normal ball yeaterday....i was saving for a spider (from the same place) and going to get said spider....

i WATCHED a rat literally eat a hole onto this snake

i now own a normal, ingured ball that I did not have the heart to leave....with a hole in it's head ( i would show photos but he's resting comfortably and I think he's had enough stress for awhile)

I have always fed live...had a nibble now and then but nothing that the next shed didn't take cae of

funny you should post this...i honeatly think that the conditions the feeders are kept in plays ALOT into what happens to the snakes...especially depending on the circumstances on how the rodent was kept....

do i think this rat would have eaten a hole in this snake had it been fed and watered properly? no, probably not

i feed live...will the snake be bitten like that again?...highly doubt it...but then again, my feeders live "better than I do"....my animals always come first....

you just cannot have a cut any dry answer without taking into consideration facts from each circumstance.....not possible

I'll be glad to post pics when he feels safe enough to poke his pretty little face out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhBalls

I bought a normal ball yeaterday....i was saving for a spider (from the same place) and going to get said spider....

i WATCHED a rat literally eat a hole onto this snake

i now own a normal, ingured ball that I did not have the heart to leave....with a hole in it's head ( i would show photos but he's resting comfortably and I think he's had enough stress for awhile)

I have always fed live...had a nibble now and then but nothing that the next shed didn't take cae of

funny you should post this...i honeatly think that the conditions the feeders are kept in plays ALOT into what happens to the snakes...especially depending on the circumstances on how the rodent was kept....

do i think this rat would have eaten a hole in this snake had it been fed and watered properly? no, probably not

i feed live...will the snake be bitten like that again?...highly doubt it...but then again, my feeders live "better than I do"....my animals always come first....

you just cannot have a cut any dry answer without taking into consideration facts from each circumstance.....not possible

I'll be glad to post pics when he feels safe enough to poke his pretty little face out

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WHat???!!!! How can you watch a rat eat a hole in a snake! when you drop the rodent in, either the snake takes it or it doesn't. When a rodent is dropped into the cage it does not just immediately charge and attack the snake!

To date, many have voted.... nobody has experienced bites severe enough to scar except for those who "have heard of horror stories"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If this helps, I feed live every week ... on average, over the last 10+ years I have gone through approximately 400 live rodents per week (this year I'm feeding over 700 live per week, 10 years ago it was 100 - 200 ... so 400 is an average over the last decade) ... I feed every week out of the year ... so if you figure; 400 rats per week x 52 weeks per year x 10 years ... that's 200,000+ live feedings over the last 10 years and that is a conservative estimate ... with all of those feedings, I have never had a single bite, scratch, or mauling.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Adam, you've posted your stats on this subject several times. Even though I'm highly skeptical that none of your snakes have ever been bitten or scratched AT ALL, I believe that the core of your claims are truthful. I can accept that you've never had a snake significantly injured during a live feed. Furthermore, your numbers are truly impressive and seem to almost suggest that injury during live feeding is a freak occurance.

But its not. I have two snakes I feed live and both have sustained injuries. I can't claim to have the same level of experience you do but, in a weird way, that kind of turns the tables in this case.

So, this is where the interesting part comes in. What's the difference? I suspect that it lies in several details that are overlooked in the typical thread on this subject: prey size, prey type, snake readiness, enclosure layout.

I suspect you'd agree.

I'll make my final point with a little mental exercise. Let's say I've driven professionally for 10 years. I've clocked hundreds of thousands of miles and never once had an accident. Now, let's say I'm so proud of myself I get a job teaching driver's ed. I go to a high school and stand up in front of class of teenagers who've never driven, and say "Driving is completely safe. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles over the last ten years and never had even a fender bender! Class dismissed!"

So, I'd love to hear about your methods and benefit from your experience. But, with all due respect, the "impressive stats" posts are of dubious, and perhaps negative, value.

I will admit, from time to time I feed my younger boas live, sometimes, even a preweaned rat will get a small nip in but it never does any damage to the snake and I have never seen even a messed up scale from it. The balls on the otherhand who have never eaten f/t, they get a perfect strike every time and the mouth of the rat isn't even close to getting them.

I know somebody who is currently being filmed to appear on a reality TV show. I was at the home for a taping two days ago, and somehow the conversation (over a break) turned to pets and people started talking about what they have. In turn I was asked, and told them that I have a Ball Python.

One of the boom operators said that a friend of his used to have one, but a rat killed it. The snake allegedly constricted the rat long enough to stun it, but did not kill it. Half-way down the snakes throat it revived and bit/clawed its way out of the snake, killing it.

I was just shocked when I was told this. I commented that the rat may have been too large, and that the rule about feeding is that the prey should be no larger than the girth of the snake, nor should it be able to leave a 'lump' going down. The guy just kind of shrugged and said he didn't know the specifics of the situation other than what happened.

I have no idea if it is true or not, but the boom operator guy seemed sober and relatively 'normal.' I can't imagine why somebody would make up a story like that; he did say it was his personal friend, not a 'friend of a friends girlfriend's cousin.'

Personally I'd rather not feed live, and since I live in a house with people who have serious allergies to even tiny furry animals, like a hamster, keeping live on hand isn't possible. I hope to go to F/T soon, but Salzedo is giving me a run for my money on that front. :P

Again wow, let me quote Mike:

I AM ONLY LOOKING FOR FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES HERE. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE READ, OR HEARD, OR WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FRIENDS SNAKE. I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES, FEEDING YOUR SNAKES, FIRST HAND.

You should never feed your animals based on horror stories from others. A lot of people that responded do not feed live prey because of things the heard. It all goes back to responsibility. You feed your animal prey that it is to big, you get what you get. You leave prey in the cage that is to big for the animal, you get what you get. I would venture to guess that both of those are the main causes for such things happening. What a lot of people do not realize is that when you freeze a food it, because all of its vital organs shut down, the snake looses out on a lot of the B12 and other vitamins that the rat/mouse provides for the snake, but thats a whole other discussion. I think the main thing in here is that there are waaaaay to many people that are afraid of there animals being bitten, which of course no one wants, but the occurrenes of it are so small and yet they are made so large that the new ball python community is petrified of feeding live animals to there snakes. I need to point everyone here. Please go and find Brian Barczyk's second interview and listen to what he says about how he feeds his ball pythons. It is about 15-20 into the interview for those of you that do not have patients. What he says would make most new people and people that frozen prey to there animals skin get goose bumps. Again not to say that he is right and people that feed frozen are wrong but just to try to deflate this over blown fear of feeding live prey. I would highly advise people new and old to listen to Reptile Radio if you have never heard of it. It is very informative and give you views from regular folks to large breeders and will definitely open your eyes to a lot of things as long as you go in with your mind open. Its a once a week radio show that is an hour long and it is well worth your time if you are any kind of hobbyist or pet owner wanting knowledge about reptiles in general.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Adam, you've posted your stats on this subject several times. Even though I'm highly skeptical that none of your snakes have ever been bitten or scratched AT ALL, I believe that the core of your claims are truthful. I can accept that you've never had a snake significantly injured during a live feed. Furthermore, your numbers are truly impressive and seem to almost suggest that injury during live feeding is a freak occurance.

But its not. I have two snakes I feed live and both have sustained injuries. I can't claim to have the same level of experience you do but, in a weird way, that kind of turns the tables in this case.

So, this is where the interesting part comes in. What's the difference? I suspect that it lies in several details that are overlooked in the typical thread on this subject: prey size, prey type, snake readiness, enclosure layout.

I suspect you'd agree.

I'll make my final point with a little mental exercise. Let's say I've driven professionally for 10 years. I've clocked hundreds of thousands of miles and never once had an accident. Now, let's say I'm so proud of myself I get a job teaching driver's ed. I go to a high school and stand up in front of class of teenagers who've never driven, and say "Driving is completely safe. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles over the last ten years and never had even a fender bender! Class dismissed!"

So, I'd love to hear about your methods and benefit from your experience. But, with all due respect, the "impressive stats" posts are of dubious, and perhaps negative, value.

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I've already posted a thread somewhere around here that describes my methods for feeding live. I'm sure that if you're unable to find it yourself, someone can give you a hand.

Feeding live is not for everyone ... I would encourage you to choose a feeding method that works best for you and your snakes.

I apologize if my post offended you in any way.

Hope this helps.

-adam

If you feed live and the snake gets injured....It is the keepers fault for not knowing how to handle things properly.

Feeding issues have nothing to do with the condition of the rodent.

People can kill a snake feeding f/t incorrectly. People can kill a snake feeding live incorrectly.

It is all about keeping experience.....some people just don't have the experience to feed live food items.

Your poll should read:

Quote:

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No I NEVER LET my snake GET hurt while killing a rodent.
Yes, I ALLOWED MY SNAKE TO BE bitten while killing a rodent but it didn't break skin
Yes, I ALLOWED MY SNAKE TO BE bitten, and it did puncture the skin, but it did not scar
Yes, I ALLOWED MY SNAKE TO BE bitten, and the bite left a permanent scar.

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I guess it is easy for people to blame the snake or the rodent instead of blaming themselves for doing something wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

It is all about keeping experience.....some people just don't have the experience to feed live food items.

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I actually know people that have burned snakes using UTH's incorrectly for whatever that's worth.

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I actually know people that have burned snakes using UTH's incorrectly for whatever that's worth.

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....I have heard of all sorts of things happening to captives.....it all boils down to keeping experience and the keeper's 'focus'...

...I know someone who slid the glass over on an enclosure and killed a snake by not paying attention. Broke it's neck. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE PAID MORE ATTENTION.

...I know of people having their lizards CHEWED to nothing by feeding too many crickets. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOW HOW DANGEROUS CRICKETS CAN BE.

...I know of people making beaf jerky out of baby snakes for not knowing that a 150w heat lamp does not belong on a 10 gallon tank with screen top. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE EDUCATED THEMSELVES MORE BEFORE GETTING THE ANIMAL.

...I know of breeders who have killed male snakes from breeding them without regard for their lives. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE STRESS THAT PUTS ON THE ANIMAL.

On this very thread, a person said they bought a ball python one day, fed it the next and it got injured. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOW TO LET THE BALL PYTHON SETTLE IN INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CRAM FOOD DOWN ITS FACE LESS THAN 24 HR. AFTER BRINGING IT HOME.

Mistakes happen. A keeper that blames the rodents or the snakes or the light bulb or the enclosure.......THAT PERSON IS A UNEXPERIENCED KEEPER. An experienced keeper knows when to accept responsibility for killing/harming an animal.

I have killed reptiles before. It happens when mistakes happen. I learned from those mistakes, I regret some every day when I look at my animals....and those mistakes will never occur again for the rest of my reptile keeping days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

....I have heard of all sorts of things happening to captives.....it all boils down to keeping experience and the keeper's 'focus'...

...I know someone who slid the glass over on an enclosure and killed a snake by not paying attention. Broke it's neck. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE PAID MORE ATTENTION.

...I know of people having their lizards CHEWED to nothing by feeding too many crickets. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOW HOW DANGEROUS CRICKETS CAN BE.

...I know of people making beaf jerky out of baby snakes for not knowing that a 150w heat lamp does not belong on a 10 gallon tank with screen top. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE EDUCATED THEMSELVES MORE BEFORE GETTING THE ANIMAL.

...I know of breeders who have killed male snakes from breeding them without regard for their lives. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE STRESS THAT PUTS ON THE ANIMAL.

On this very thread, a person said they bought a ball python one day, fed it the next and it got injured. THE KEEPER SHOULD HAVE KNOW TO LET THE BALL PYTHON SETTLE IN INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CRAM FOOD DOWN ITS FACE LESS THAN 24 HR. AFTER BRINGING IT HOME.

Mistakes happen. A keeper that blames the rodents or the snakes or the light bulb or the enclosure.......THAT PERSON IS A BEGINNING KEEPER. An experienced keeper knows when to except responsibility for killing/harming an animal.

I have killed reptiles before. It happens when mistakes happen. I learned from those mistakes, I regret some every day when I look at my animals....and those mistakes will never occur again for the rest of my reptile keeping days.

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well said

Hey all,

Without this thred getting way outta hand.......lets simmer down, now.

I feed live. I have 65 balls and have had a very successful feeding history, less one.

When I fed one day to my group I have a regularly timid 100% het for pied. Its because of this I choose a smaller rat for her. Well I picked the smaller rat that I had in a tank for a week. They are fed and watered but I suspect that this one being the runt, got beat up on and was either looking for some pay back or was on the bottom end of the food chain (I suspect the latter). It took the rat 30 seconds , literally, to put a hole in the body of my ball. I was upset to say the least and the rats life was terminated shortly thereafter. I just want to be sure say here that I still feed live. as my collection grows I do not see that changing.

It is very important though, that we watch our pets and insure that they eat quicky and without problem. I hope I never have a problem again and I am very happy to see Adam's impressive stat's but, I am afraid to say I believe it is luck, not skill that dictates whether we have one of these unfortunate accidents.

This is a first hand experiance and I did not get this from my second cousins sister's, Mom brother on her maiden side.

Disclaimer: These are my opinion, at no time should you take these for gospel. That is all.:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I've already posted a thread somewhere around here that describes my methods for feeding live. I'm sure that if you're unable to find it yourself, someone can give you a hand.

Feeding live is not for everyone ... I would encourage you to choose a feeding method that works best for you and your snakes.

I apologize if my post offended you in any way.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...1&postcount=41

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

So, I'd love to hear about your methods and benefit from your experience. But, with all due respect, the "impressive stats" posts are of dubious, and perhaps negative, value.

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I also follow Adam's methods, and with over 3000 live feedings, not one bite, not one scratch, not one mauling.

You think Adam's claims are dubious - do you really believe he'd risk his collection to live feeders if he really had problems?

I believe the OP asked for pictures of permanent scars left by injuries. You said you've had two, can you post those pictures of the permanent scarring from your animals being injured?

Four people voted that feeding left permanent scarring in their animals, but no one has posted a picture?:confuzd:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Priceless.

Tosha, you are breaking the rules. you are not talking about first hand experiences... you are talking about rescue turn ins. There is no telling what really happened there... The person may have said "I was feeding my snake, and the rat attacked!" what they didn't tell you was that the rat was probably in the tank for 2 days... or that it was a large rat with 100g snake. Please, first hand experiences only.

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Actually I did say I have had snakes bitten and scratched by rodents - myself first hand experience - yes I absolutely know how to properly feed my snakes - these things don't happen over night or by feeding too big or the wrong food item or from a hungry mouse - it takes but a split second for a panicked rat or mouse to grab onto your snake and do some damage.

Anyway - here is a mouser girl that I had get bitten - yes I was watching diligently when it happened - she grabbed the mouse - wrapped it and everything seemed to be fine - until she unwrapped to start eating and I noticed her bleeding - that was two years ago - you can still see the scar on her face - a little more to the left and she could well have lost an eye as it is she has a hard time shedding her head and whistles when she breaths.

http://jetpythons.com/IMG_5416.JPG

my snake at home has been bitten once but it didnt break the scales. but at work i was feeding a month old hatchling and mouse took a dime size chunk out of his neck. I was watching but the way he coiled I couldn't see him being bit. This is no wives tale....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moespeaking

but at work i was feeding a month old hatchling and mouse took a dime size chunk out of his neck.

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I'm just wondering...how big was the mouse you gave to this month old hatchling, that it was able to take a "dime" size chunk out of his neck.

:confused:

I feed live. I have one snake get bitten over 3 years of live feeding. I am lucky my snake didn't get hurt yes. But that does not change my mind on my feeding methods. All my snakes are fed now with rats I have bred and raised they are all well fed and watered and taken care of. I also use a 10 minute rule, if the snake hasnt hit within that 10 minutes the rat comes out.

No one is right or wrong in their choice. This live - f/t debate will never be settled. Do what works best for you and your snake and don't judge others for their choices.

First off let me state....I have nothing but respect for Adam and his snakes as I am fighting with myself over whether I should drop some of my tax refund on a pin from him. That bieng said here is a picture of my het pied as I dont really like bieng called a liar because I didnt post a pic!

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...p/IMG_0066.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I also follow Adam's methods, and with over 3000 live feedings, not one bite, not one scratch, not one mauling.

You think Adam's claims are dubious - do you really believe he'd risk his collection to live feeders if he really had problems?

I believe the OP asked for pictures of permanent scars left by injuries. You said you've had two, can you post those pictures of the permanent scarring from your animals being injured?

Four people voted that feeding left permanent scarring in their animals, but no one has posted a picture?:confuzd:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by firehop

First off let me state....I have nothing but respect for Adam

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i appreciate it, but it's really not necessary ... i've never said that live feeding accidents don't happen or accused anyone that has claimed to have a live feeding accident of lying or being a bad keeper. Accidents happen to EVERYONE ... whether it's a live feeding accident, a thermal burn, an RI, etc ... i don't know ANYONE that is PERFECT ... and if I did, I'd probably be afraid of them ... lol.

I only post my stats to offer my experience with live feeding. There are a lot of people that say that live feeding CAN'T be done safely and I really have to disagree with them based on my experience.

I only hope that my posts offer some sort of comfort to people that would love to feed F/T or P/K but can't because their snake won't take it and are afraid of offering their animals live ... they shouldn't be afraid, because in my experience it can be done safely ... and they shouldn't feel bad about feeding live because someone on the internet says that it's wrong, because it's not.

I encourage each keeper to feed in a way that works for them and their animals ... LIVE, F/T, P/K, whatever ... there are people all over that wouldn't hesitate to take away our rights to keep reptiles as pets ... those are the people that we should be arguing with ... not each other.

-adam

The first time I fed my girl a live mouse, she struck the mouse and hit it low and the mouse bit her neck enough to break skin. I didn't vote however because it still hasn't healed completely. She's had one shed so far and the wound is healing up pretty nicely, but I think there is going to be a scar when it's all said and done. Here is a pic (sorry, it's blurry, but look at the open wound three spots back from her head) from about a few days after it happened. It's looking MUCH better now though...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...teel/Bella.jpg

They eat live in the wild right?

Always live. All my snakes. Never a bite or scratch.

Out of 82 snakes all fed live over about 9 months, I've had one snake grab a rat badly and take a deep bite to the head.

The rat was a medium and the snake pretty big. I dabbed on some antibiotic ointment and it healed right up.

It scared me enough that since then I only feed well-fed small rats, and have never had a problem again.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

WHat???!!!! How can you watch a rat eat a hole in a snake! when you drop the rodent in, either the snake takes it or it doesn't. When a rodent is dropped into the cage it does not just immediately charge and attack the snake!

To date, many have voted.... nobody has experienced bites severe enough to scar except for those who "have heard of horror stories"

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This was in a pet store...NOT in my care....the snake was wrapped around the rat, caught in the side, and was biting the snake....enough to leave a hole...I never said anything about the rat charging ot attacking....I did however have a few choice words for the store

i took that snake home with me because I couldn't stand to see it in those conditions...he was left unattended by store employees and the snake paid the price

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Originally Posted by firehop

First off let me state....I have nothing but respect for Adam and his snakes as I am fighting with myself over whether I should drop some of my tax refund on a pin from him. That bieng said here is a picture of my het pied as I dont really like bieng called a liar because I didnt post a pic!

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...p/IMG_0066.jpg

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HOw did this injury happen? It looks like the entire section of skin in this picture is messed up (including all the way to the left of the picture. JUDGING BY THE PICTURE, IN MY OPINION, This couldn't have been from one bite, it had to be a series of bites. Where were you when this happened? What exactly happened? I find it hard to believe that this much damage could have happned when the snake was constricting the rat. When a snake strikes a properly sized rat, it completely over powers it. As it squeezes, if the rat were to bite, it would only reach one spot of skin... It looks like there is a LARGE damaged section here. please give more details.

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

Actually I did say I have had snakes bitten and scratched by rodents - myself first hand experience - yes I absolutely know how to properly feed my snakes - these things don't happen over night or by feeding too big or the wrong food item or from a hungry mouse - it takes but a split second for a panicked rat or mouse to grab onto your snake and do some damage.

Anyway - here is a mouser girl that I had get bitten - yes I was watching diligently when it happened - she grabbed the mouse - wrapped it and everything seemed to be fine - until she unwrapped to start eating and I noticed her bleeding - that was two years ago - you can still see the scar on her face - a little more to the left and she could well have lost an eye as it is she has a hard time shedding her head and whistles when she breaths.

http://jetpythons.com/IMG_5416.JPG

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You had a MOUSE cause that damage? just judging by the size of a ball pythons head, and the size of a mouses little teeth, that must have been a tiny python, and a LARGE mouse at the time of the incident...

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Originally Posted by mcavana

You had a MOUSE cause that damage? just judging by the size of a ball pythons head, and the size of a mouses little teeth, that must have been a tiny python, and a LARGE mouse at the time of the incident...

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At the time she was about 1200 grams - the mouse was an average sized adult :rolleyes: If you want specifics - she would eat 5 or 6 in a feeding - this was the second one placed in with her so she was in full feeding mode - took her less than two seconds to spot it grab it and coil.

i dont feed live, for the main part it is illegal in my country unless the snake will not eat anything else and its life is in danger if not fed live prey. but i have done in the past when i thought it was nescesary with non feeders. i would feed them all live if it were legal. 80% of what i feed is prekilled by me at the time i feed them the other 20% is frozen/thwed.

when i have fed live ive watched the snake and the prey intently untill it has fully killed it and there have been a couple of times when ive had to use my tweezers to stop the rat from biting the snake. i would never leave a rat or mouse unnatended with any of my snakes its not worth the risk

I feed live. All of my snakes respond to live rats, and kill them, and eat them. I put the rat into the snake's tub, broadside to the snake. I hate to read/see where people dangle the rat/mouse, face-first, into the cage. Why put it so that the prey item's mouth is the first thing that the snake will grab onto!?
Here is how I do it. The rat is placed broadside in the tub. I observe discreetly. Snake grabs rat, constricts. If I see that the rat's head is "free" and technically able to twist around to bite the snake, I quickly insert a thin radio antenna and hold the rat's jaws away from the snake until it expires. Then, I discreetly shut the tub and let the snake eat in peace.
I watch. If the snake does not appear to be in a feeding mode (though this really never happens) I remove the rat after about 5 minutes. I heartily believe that many injuries are sustained when people leave a prey item IN with a snake that is NOT in the mood to feed. Rat/mouse gets inquisitive.. starts chewing on big rubbery object (snake..) I can honestly see how this could happen.
Feeding live is fine if done with care. I do Not think that people who are extremely squeamish about touching feeders, should feed live without calming down first. Your nerves will cause the rat/mouse to become more nervous, especially if you're dangling the poor thing by the tail. You're already setting things up for the rat to go into the tub stressed and nervous.. not good. Do I think that injuries Can happen during live feeding? Sure. Do I blame keepers for ALL injuries sustained by snakes like this? No. But I said my piece, and this is my end feeling. If you feed live responsibly, great. If you feed f/t or prekilled, great. If it works for you and is done responsibly, live and let live!

If you read my original post I never said it happened during constriction. I said I put the rat in the cage for a total of 30 seconds and he attacked the snake. I had just put the rat in the tub and put another one in the tub under then reopened the top one to see this happening. I will drop 2 at a time then recheck.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

HOw did this injury happen? It looks like the entire section of skin in this picture is messed up (including all the way to the left of the picture. JUDGING BY THE PICTURE, IN MY OPINION, This couldn't have been from one bite, it had to be a series of bites. Where were you when this happened? What exactly happened? I find it hard to believe that this much damage could have happned when the snake was constricting the rat. When a snake strikes a properly sized rat, it completely over powers it. As it squeezes, if the rat were to bite, it would only reach one spot of skin... It looks like there is a LARGE damaged section here. please give more details.

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