trouble changing from mice to rats

I am trying to change one of my ball pythons from mice to rats. she has been regularly eating a full size live mouse once per week. She is the ONLY snake that refuses to eat f / t. Would love it if she started eating f / t rats like everyone else, but at this point I would be happy if she at least ate live rats.

7 days ago on normal feed night, i offered a live pinky rat in the cooler (where I always feed my snakes) she showed absolutely no interest at all. Didn't offer anything else.

3 nights ago I tried feeding a very small live rat, the same size as an adult mouse in the cooler. again no interest. Didn't offer anything else.

Tonight I tried feeding her a live fuzzy rat that could barely walk. I rubbed a mouse all over the rat. This time i put the rat right outside her hide in the cage and left it there for an hour. Again, not intersted... But I could tell by her movement that she is getting hungry. Didn't offer anything else.

She is a healthy weight and has not lost any weight. How long should I do this tough love thing? How long should I keep telling her, eat the rat, or eat NOTHING!?? Will most balls convert if you stick to it? she has gone 2 weeks without food so far. Should i give it another month? less? more?

I know you are all wondering... I prefer rats because I am breeding rats now, and want everything to eat the same thing if possible. I also believe that rats are more healthy to eat then mice (i know there are lots that might disagree, this is just my preference.) If it doesn't work, I will feed her a mice every week for the next 30 years... But first I want to try my hardest to convert her!

Mike

I am going to make the switch with my corns. Try the tough love with him a few more times, while rubbing him with a mouse maybe mouse brains on him? Its worth a try. I am going to feed my corns like that, but I think they will switch fast as there feeding response is amazing.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I am going to make the switch with my corns. Try the tough love with him a few more times, while rubbing him with a mouse maybe mouse brains on him? Its worth a try. I am going to feed my corns like that, but I think they will switch fast as there feeding response is amazing.

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Justin its way easier to switch a corn snake then it is a ball python ;).To the poster just give him a couple tries but be aware some may never switch over ;)

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Originally Posted by mcavana

I am trying to change one of my ball pythons from mice to rats. she has been regularly eating a full size live mouse once per week. She is the ONLY snake that refuses to eat f / t. Would love it if she started eating f / t rats like everyone else, but at this point I would be happy if she at least ate live rats.

7 days ago on normal feed night, i offered a live pinky rat in the cooler (where I always feed my snakes) she showed absolutely no interest at all. Didn't offer anything else.

3 nights ago I tried feeding a very small live rat, the same size as an adult mouse in the cooler. again no interest. Didn't offer anything else.

Tonight I tried feeding her a live fuzzy rat that could barely walk. I rubbed a mouse all over the rat. This time i put the rat right outside her hide in the cage and left it there for an hour. Again, not intersted... But I could tell by her movement that she is getting hungry. Didn't offer anything else.

She is a healthy weight and has not lost any weight. How long should I do this tough love thing? How long should I keep telling her, eat the rat, or eat NOTHING!?? Will most balls convert if you stick to it? she has gone 2 weeks without food so far. Should i give it another month? less? more?

I know you are all wondering... I prefer rats because I am breeding rats now, and want everything to eat the same thing if possible. I also believe that rats are more healthy to eat then mice (i know there are lots that might disagree, this is just my preference.) If it doesn't work, I will feed her a mice every week for the next 30 years... But first I want to try my hardest to convert her!

Mike

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Mike try letting the rat lay in some mouse bedding for awhile to "switch" the smell

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Justin its way easier to switch a corn snake then it is a ball python ;).To the poster just give him a couple tries but be aware some may never switch over ;)

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Yeah! I know. Prolly should have worded it better. I'm still worried bout all 7 of them switching... LOL.

If you're really worried about the weight (eventually), here's an interesting technique I tried with at least a 75% success rate.

Offer a live adult mouse, you know the ones it loves so much.

After it kills it and starts to eat it, hold up a frozen thawed rat right behind the mouse's hind end. Your snake will opens its mouth wide during that last pull of it's "throat" muscles, and when it does, make sure the rat's head is in your snake's mouth.

Usually, the snake continues eating, and it gets used to bigger food.

I had some time on my hands and got tired of my one ball python that was a mouse eater. Obviously I couldn't do this every time, but it's worth a try. I liked the mouse bedding idea.

My spider wouldn't eat anything but mice. I left the rat in mouse bedding, gerbil bedding and every other trick in the book. Then I took my spider to a friends house and after a week there he took rats and as been on rats since then.

Continue to feed him the mouse consistently for 4 weeks so its on a schedule, dont even mess with a rat. On the 5th week put a live rat in mouse bedding for 30min-1hr and that should do the trick. They key is to keep it consistent, dont feed it amouse and then 4 days later try a rat fuzzy then a pup. Get him on a regular feeding schedule than try throwing a rat in there.

Try offering live rat pup which are the same size than adult mice.

Once your BP switched you can attempt to switch to F/T (remember once step at the time)

Switching might take a while and if your BP has a good body weight you might have to practice tough love (If your BP refuses the rat do not offer a mouse instead just wait until next feeding day to offer a rat again)

Some BP are just stubborn I have a few that did not switch and it does not matter to me the bottom line is to feed what works, mice or rats does not matter.

And remember there is no study on BP’s nutritional requirement, so grams per grams, mice or rats it’s all the same.

Why make the switch at all? If the snake is happy and healthy with mice, then keep him on mice, though a full grown ball will need more than 1 mouse a week. 2 of my balls will only eat mice, while 1 will only eat gerbils. None of them like rats, so I don't force the issue. All are very healthy, good weight and my oldest is 15+ years old and my other 2 are over 10 yrs. The 2 on mice now, were once eating gerbils until they decided they didn't want to anymore. They refused to eat for months, until I wised up and went back to offering them mice! They gobbled them up like kids in a chocolate factory. Point being, your snakes know what they want and need, its up to you to provide it.

Tough love may result in the snake just refusing to eat period. We all know how finicky BPs can be about eating. I'm not saying don't try and offer your snake some variety, but I wouldn't agonize over it. Give them what they want, live, frozen, or whatever they want. Make life simple for yourself, and your snakes.

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Originally Posted by BPBeth

Why make the switch at all? If the snake is happy and healthy with mice, then keep him on mice, though a full grown ball will need more than 1 mouse a week. 2 of my balls will only eat mice, while 1 will only eat gerbils. None of them like rats, so I don't force the issue. All are very healthy, good weight and my oldest is 15+ years old and my other 2 are over 10 yrs. The 2 on mice now, were once eating gerbils until they decided they didn't want to anymore. They refused to eat for months, until I wised up and went back to offering them mice! They gobbled them up like kids in a chocolate factory. Point being, your snakes know what they want and need, its up to you to provide it.

Tough love may result in the snake just refusing to eat period. We all know how finicky BPs can be about eating. I'm not saying don't try and offer your snake some variety, but I wouldn't agonize over it. Give them what they want, live, frozen, or whatever they want. Make life simple for yourself, and your snakes.

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I already explained in the origional post why I want her to eat rats. The biggest reason I would like her to eat rats is that I breed rats! I do not, and do not want to breed mice! The second reason is that all of my other snakes are feeding on rats. The third reason is I believe that the high protein rats are better for the snakes then high fat mice! MICE STINK! I am not agonizing over anything. When you are going to care for something for 30 years, it is a pretty a good idea to get them set up and eating what works for YOU if at all possible! There is nothing wrong with trying! as stated above if it must be mice so be it... But first I will try very hard to switch!

I've had to switch BP's from mice to rats myself. I breed rats, I don't breed mice. While I don't mind going out to buy prey I'm not generally interested in the up and down quality of local mice suppliers. Since I have rats on hand that I know are a very good quality, our snakes all eat rats.

I do tough love. I used to mess about with scent switching and so forth and it often didn't work. Now they simply do not even smell a mouse. I skip a week, then offer an appropriate sized rat, often one smaller than they could take but that they can handle easily. They often refuse this first week. They get the same type rat one week later and so forth. The longest I've seen a refusal was 4 weeks.

Now I will balance that by saying, these are NOT tiny baby snakes or underweight rescues - these were juvenile, sub-adult or adult ball pythons, all in excellent weight and condition. 4 weeks of refusals is nothing to them and did not harm them one bit. Their weight was closely tracked during this time. All are now happily snarfing down the rats I produce for them. :)

When it comes to feeding do what works for you as a keeper, what the snake will take with a strong feeding response and what makes good common sense to do.

thanks franky... I will give it another 2 weeks. I have been monitoring her weight very closely, and so far, she hasn't lost any weight!

Mike

You're welcome Mike. Just remember always it's a fine line and a very specific one that no one but you will end up being able to truly judge. Some ball pythons are so prey specific they won't switch and a keeper that refuses to see that in their snake, may be too one track in their thinking. Saying no ball python will switch is just as one track. Making a tiny 45 gram hatchling go without eating to switch for a keeper's convenience would be way too one track and perhaps something best left until the snake is big enough to deal with the issue. Worrying about a 1,000 gram snake missing a meal or two, is for me, overthinking the issue. Sometimes certain times of the year are better to switch for that snake than others depending on it's eating habits. Lots of things to think about.

It's just about being common sense about it, knowing your snake, monitoring the situation and making adjustments as required. :)

how many gram does your snake have to be before it can eat rats? i have a cage that i keep mice in then some oe told about rats. i stop buying mice andgot rats but i put them in the cage i keep mice in and had no problems. depending on how many grams your snake is, how many grams should the food be for the snake?