For Other Small Breeders - A business question

So I have a feeling I'm about to get some scathing emails from a once prospective buyer and I wondered how other would deal with this situation.

I was contacted by a potential buyer of 2 baby lessers who introduced himself by lowballing me at a fairly ridiculous price considering I tend to stay on the low side of fair market value. I politely informed him that the price he offered was low, but that I would offer them down to XX ($400 lower than market) if he was interested in both. My gut instinct when someone lowballs me is to not do business with them at all, but the emails were polite, so I kept a polite tone. He then led me through a series of emails involving everything from what line they were to pics of the grandsire (which I provided). He then sent me an email stating that his original offer was all he could afford. within five minutes after that he sent me a partial trade offer (which I politely refused). I then pretty much wrote him off.
A day or two later he sends me another email stating that he had talked to his 'partner' and worked out a way to pay for the 2 snakes. He resolves to send me half via paypal at the end of this week, and his mystery partner will mail me a check for the other half. I state that this is acceptable (this is on the 14th). He then wants to agree on the 17th as a ship date. I state that I will not ship until the funds have arrived and cleared. I also state that I prefer to ship mon - wed to avoid the possibility of the package getting held by fedex over the weekend. He says the 18th is the only day he can be home and he has never had a problem with fedex getting there (we are only about 300 miles apart). I state that as long as he accepts responsibility for the shipping, I will go along. No money changes hands.
I felt a little uneasy about the whole deal for a variety of reasons, but nothing seemed to scream 'bad idea' so I let it go. I always prefer my kids to go to a great home with other small breeders. It finally dawned on me to check fauna and see if he had any track record (hoping for great reviews that would ease my mind). Instead I find one bad review from 4 years ago. Again, there was no tangible reason not to do the deal, just my feminine conscience that everything was not quite right. I did not sleep well last night. Around noon I decided it was not worth it and sent the buyer an email stating that I was sorry to have wasted his time but could not in good conscience go through with the deal. I also stated that if the silent partner's check had already been mailed, that I would return it via overnight immediately.

So my question is..... How would you have handled this?? Would you have treated the circumstances differently?

Bear in mind that I only breed a handful of snakes and am heavily invested in each one. I have a hard time parting with them unless I feel the new owner is a good match. I do feel guilty about leading the guy on, yet I just did not feel right about the whole thing from the start and I should have just gone with my gut.

Thanks,
Kat

Ok from a business stand point..

If the money cleared send the snake. Deal done not every buyer is going to be a good match for the animal they get.

From a peroional stand point its your animal, your business. If you felt uncomfortable with it then good job on saving yourself a possiable long term headache.

It sounds like he was trying to rush you on shipping. If the check got to you today it wouldn't clear your account by the 18th unless it was drawn on the same bank you use.

Go with your gut. Nothin says you have to do business with everyone who want's your animals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

So I have a feeling I'm about to get some scathing emails from a once prospective buyer and I wondered how other would deal with this situation.

I was contacted by a potential buyer of 2 baby lessers who introduced himself by lowballing me at a fairly ridiculous price considering I tend to stay on the low side of fair market value. I politely informed him that the price he offered was low, but that I would offer them down to XX ($400 lower than market) if he was interested in both. My gut instinct when someone lowballs me is to not do business with them at all, but the emails were polite, so I kept a polite tone. He then led me through a series of emails involving everything from what line they were to pics of the grandsire (which I provided). He then sent me an email stating that his original offer was all he could afford. within five minutes after that he sent me a partial trade offer (which I politely refused). I then pretty much wrote him off.
A day or two later he sends me another email stating that he had talked to his 'partner' and worked out a way to pay for the 2 snakes. He resolves to send me half via paypal at the end of this week, and his mystery partner will mail me a check for the other half. I state that this is acceptable (this is on the 14th). He then wants to agree on the 17th as a ship date. I state that I will not ship until the funds have arrived and cleared. I also state that I prefer to ship mon - wed to avoid the possibility of the package getting held by fedex over the weekend. He says the 18th is the only day he can be home and he has never had a problem with fedex getting there (we are only about 300 miles apart). I state that as long as he accepts responsibility for the shipping, I will go along. No money changes hands.
I felt a little uneasy about the whole deal for a variety of reasons, but nothing seemed to scream 'bad idea' so I let it go. I always prefer my kids to go to a great home with other small breeders. It finally dawned on me to check fauna and see if he had any track record (hoping for great reviews that would ease my mind). Instead I find one bad review from 4 years ago. Again, there was no tangible reason not to do the deal, just my feminine conscience that everything was not quite right. I did not sleep well last night. Around noon I decided it was not worth it and sent the buyer an email stating that I was sorry to have wasted his time but could not in good conscience go through with the deal. I also stated that if the silent partner's check had already been mailed, that I would return it via overnight immediately.

So my question is..... How would you have handled this?? Would you have treated the circumstances differently?

Bear in mind that I only breed a handful of snakes and am heavily invested in each one. I have a hard time parting with them unless I feel the new owner is a good match. I do feel guilty about leading the guy on, yet I just did not feel right about the whole thing from the start and I should have just gone with my gut.

Thanks,
Kat

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The only parts that bother me is all of a sudden his "partner" is wanting to send his half by mail in the form of a check.Then he throws desregard about only having that one day open for shipping of the animals.With these two things in my mind it makes me feel he does not care "if" something happens to them then he will just get his money back from you.If you ship this way i would make sure i get a email or something to show that HE expects them to be shipped on this day and He takes full responsibility.Or just meet half way or something ;)

I think he wanted to get you to ship before his "check" bounced....

I would have politely told him that you were no longer interested in selling the animals to him, or that they were already sold.

Not worth the risk continuing on a path that already sounds fishy...

seems odd to me too about the partner and the sudden ship date. if he were to send it to you in the mail ( the check) it would take about 2 days to get to you. which would be the 16th. now if you are able to make it to the bank in time ( depends on when mail arrives) you might not be able to cash the check until the next day (17th).. if you try to get cash for the check they still use the account as a base incase the check bounces so no matter what you want to make sure it goes through before thinking about sending the animal out...this may take 1-5 days depending on bank and if they run into problems and time of day it was deposited. there are two reason this guy could be doing this, one hes shady and knows he doesnt have the money, two he is just a bad talker.

Silent Partners always scream scam in my eyes. I don't think there is any reason to be in a rush to recieve animals on the buyers part. I'm usually researching an animal/breeder for months before I decide to buy at which point waiting an extra few days would be no biggy.

If it didn't sit right in your stomach then you have all the more reason to call off the deal. After all you produced these animals, you cared for them, its only right that you be concerned about what homes they find. If in fact he did have a silent partner and he did infact mail you a check I would apologize and offer to send the animals when the check cleared.

In the future I would set policies up and follow them with no exceptions. Having policies set up eliminates all the guesswork and stress associated with trying to judge a persons trust worthiness over the internet.

Good Advice, all. I acknowledge that I made a mistake in committing verbally to the deal. It's just frustrating because I'm normally the type to Always go by my gut. This has definitely been a lesson learned.

Cheers,
Kat

Agreed...he wanted you to ship before he paid for them...good job not getting suckered in.

Sounds like a scam written all over it. I only ship until AFTER all and any funds have cleared. I bet his "partner's" check would have bounced to the moon. I would have politely told him that I could and would only ship until after the check had been cashed and cleared and that this could take a couple of weeks. If he insisted on shipping, I would have just told him he's going to have to wait until the check clears; no ifs ands or buts.

But in the end, they're your snakes and you produced them and shouldn't sell them to someone you don't feel comfortable with. I've turned away potential buyers just because it seemed to me I'd be sending my animals to a negligent home or something. In the end, I think you were right in not selling to him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

In the future I would set policies up and follow them with no exceptions. Having policies set up eliminates all the guesswork and stress associated with trying to judge a persons trust worthiness over the internet.

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I couldn't agree more!!

Jane, I think you did the right thing. Why couldn't the partner deposit the $ in the paypal account? I never like to ship after Wed. either, it just isn't worth it. Whenever one party is pressuring or pushing the deal TOO quickly it is usually because they are pulling a fast one. Following your gut usually steers you in the right direction.:gj:

If there was no payment, I'd either call the entire deal off, or tell him he had to wait to recieve snakes until you had ALL money in hand before shipping.
Once you have FULL payment, then you can work out when he can recieve the snakes, and I would tell him you ONLY ship mon-weds, so as not to risk the snakes.
If he doesn't want to do it your way, tell him to buy elsewhere.
And low-ballers usually are problems. Especially when they offer ridiculously low prices. I had someone offer to pay me $700 for my VISABLE PIED female. He then informed me that HE could get them at that price at the local show. I told him that I was glad that he would be able to purchase a pied at his local show, as he certainly wasn't going to get MINE for that price.
You go!

Careful with paypal, they notoriously side with the buyer. Its not hard to get your money back from them, which will leave you with half the money and him with the snakes.

Luckily there was no money that changed hands. The commitment was to pay by the end of the week and I terminated the deal early. All has been quiet thus far, still waiting for the response to my polite 'thanks but no thanks' back out.

Cheers,
Kat

I do not like the fact that he wanted you to ship the snakes before the cold, hard cash was in your hands. Sounds like a rubber check, maybe? The kind that bounces :) I think that you're lucky to be done with this deal. Yes, Paypal is great for buyers.. but I really don't like it that much after hearing what a friend went through. He sold an eBay item to someone out of the country.. they paid Paypal. And then after they received the item, they complained that the seller my friend, never shipped it. And openly emailed my friend telling him this. They ended up with the item and the money.. (my friend gave up eBay and is now a forensics photographer.. go figure!)
Kudos to you for nipping this one in the bud. Even if the funds were all there.. rushing you to ship is uncalled for.

Kat,

IMHO you have the right to sell your snakes to someone you fell comfortable with, if you feel uneasy with the deal or person, you have the right to cancel the sale.

Rich

They are your animals, it's your responsibility to ensure a decent home for them as best you can If you feel uncomfortable as to where "your" animals are going, you have the right to put their welfare first and continue or end a deal if someone is giving you bad signals.... if you have been around the hobby long enough, you just know where bad signals are taking you! :)

UPDATE:

So after the initial cancelation, the buyer sent me an "oops, I didn't mean the 17th, I meant the 24th for shipping" email and stated that if I would just get back in touch, he was sorry for the confusion and the deal could be back on. I declined again stating politely that I was not going to be doing any business with him." His final response to me was "Good Luck!" meant sarcastically or not, I have no idea.

So I repost the snakes for sale/trade with the tagline that the 'deal fell through' since it sounded better than " The shady buyer creeped me out and I terminated the deal." And today I get this email....
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NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
*************

LIES COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU. THE DEAL DIDN'T FALL THROUGH...YOU CANCELLED IT AFTER WE AGREED TO A PRICE AND MONEY WAS BEING SENT. MORE THAN LIKELY BECAUSE YOU GOT A BETTER OFFER.

IT'S YOUR REPUTATION...HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT!

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As a disclaimer, no money ever changed hands or was 'sent'. I'm sorely tempted to post a seller beware on the BOI on fauna. So the question is.... would you? or would you let it ride?

Cheers,
Kat

There was a situation on fauna awhile back about an albino that was sold and the seller backed out because of a better offer so I can understand the paranoia but as you had reposted them I really don't understand how they could have assumed this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

UPDATE:

So after the initial cancelation, the buyer sent me an "oops, I didn't mean the 17th, I meant the 24th for shipping" email and stated that if I would just get back in touch, he was sorry for the confusion and the deal could be back on. I declined again stating politely that I was not going to be doing any business with him." His final response to me was "Good Luck!" meant sarcastically or not, I have no idea.

So I repost the snakes for sale/trade with the tagline that the 'deal fell through' since it sounded better than " The shady buyer creeped me out and I terminated the deal." And today I get this email....
------------
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
*************

LIES COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU. THE DEAL DIDN'T FALL THROUGH...YOU CANCELLED IT AFTER WE AGREED TO A PRICE AND MONEY WAS BEING SENT. MORE THAN LIKELY BECAUSE YOU GOT A BETTER OFFER.

IT'S YOUR REPUTATION...HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT!

----------------------------------------------
As a disclaimer, no money ever changed hands or was 'sent'. I'm sorely tempted to post a seller beware on the BOI on fauna. So the question is.... would you? or would you let it ride?

Cheers,
Kat

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Kat yes i would just incase he tries it with someone else and does rip them off.I would make sure to mention his "secret partner" and the other half of the cash being sent by a "check".I bet they will agree it smells

I went ahead and started the thread so if you want the entire story..........

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=107782

I also alerted the offending party of the thread.

Welcome, Chaos.

Cheers,
Kat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

I went ahead and started the thread so if you want the entire story..........

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=107782

I also alerted the offending party of the thread.

Welcome, Chaos.

Cheers,
Kat

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Wow it seems you are not the only one wondering about him :O.

I don't think I would worry about your reputation given the feedback that has comeback already. Anyone who is in this industry for the right reasons would see your side of story and why you would have backed out on the deal. You did the right thing IMO :gj: