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Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I am thinking of getting some ASFs. My friend has decided to keep her store open after all, and has about 5.5 of these in. I was on my way to work and thus did not buy them yet.
So how are they to have? I love the fact that they do not get very huge, and the adults were just the size of rat that I feed my adult BPs.
How are yours on litter sizes? My friend said that hers are pretty nippy, especially a female with babies. I do not care, as they would be bred for snake feed, not as pets.
Any info or experience that you've had with them would be appreciated!
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Run away fast J/K
I would be very carefull with 5.5 Why you ask? I started with 1.3 last Jan. and by x-mas i had over 90. They are not the end all be all some make them out to be. All my guys ate them like gang busters to start out but by June had to go back to rats as my crew would not even look at them for some reason.
Good Points
1- Litter size 12-16 a pop
2- No smell none
3- Size as adults
4- Easy to care for
Bad Points
1- They bite
2- Litter size you can get run over very fast
3- If your home is cold they will drop like flys
4- Waste of food
I know I'm missing alot but you get the point.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I have about 20 ASF's...I have not bred them yet as they are still growing to breeding size....
I have to say, I keep them 1.3 or 1.4 in 10 gallon fish tanks...I go 2 weeks between cleanings and there is no smell..none....my problem is that they chew through water bottles all the time...I put 2x4 blocks in there and that slowed it down...
If I were you I would pick up the 1.5.....
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I'll vouch for the no odor thing.
Also, I have mine in plastic tubs....and wheels. They run the wheels like crazy, but the tubs are still intact a month out.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I am actually moving to a rack system in the near future...I don't think they can chew through a brass sipper!
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Jen we have our original colony of ASF's in a large 30 gallon glass tank. We have a second trio we are just starting out in a smaller tank but they also have a 30 gallon for when they start producing litters. We keep only one mature male in with 2 females. This seems to produce a nice number of offspring that we can feed off quickly enough to avoid being overrun with ASF's.
Due to issues of possible prey imprinting we feed the ASF's only to certain snakes and will be starting any hatchlings we produce and intend to sell or trade on regular rats.
I do like the ASF's for their ability to get some of our snakes on a healthy eating pattern (especially the WC/LTC adults we have). I like that they don't smell and they produce consistently. I don't like that they tend to be nippy and you do have to watch them closely for that. They are also awful bottle chewers so I've gone to glass bottles for them. I haven't tried a wheel yet, so I may try that.
All in all, I'd say I enjoy my regular rats more but I completely appreciate the role ASF's have in our feeding program and am glad Mike talked me into trying them. :)
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I have a water-bottle chewer in one of my tanks.
I solved the problem by putting the bottom 1/2" of a crystal-lite container over the exposed top end of the bottle. The container is a little larger than would be perfect, but gets the job done.
I have no solution for the biting, but I think they're right to bite the person that feeds them to snakes.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I've had my trio for several weeks now and haven't had any problems. I pick them up by hand from their tails and transfer them into another container without incident. I've heard it is best to keep colonies permanent and avoid introducing different animals as much as possible. Instead of rotating males or females, just leave them all together and let them do their thing to avoid aggression toward one another. I have mine in a glass aquarium and use a glass water bottle and everything is working out fine. I would love to have them in a rack one day as long as they would not chew out of the tub. I've also heard it is a good idea to make sure they have some wood scraps to chew on. I would also pick up the 1.5 if I were you... they are really cute little rodents and I am happy I got them.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Wow.. being overrun would be a good thing at this point for me! Since my snake collection has grown, I cannot breed enough rats, and my friend (oddly, the woman who's selling the rats at her store) always pesters me in a friendly way to sell her some feeders. I usually end up buying from her though.. her breeder/seller is hard to get ahold of I guess.
So.. I was thinking of getting some established (one male, harem setup) so that once I have hungry BP hatchlings this year, I will have a lot of food for them. My rat colony was near-repleted this year from hatchlings' needs for baby rats. Now, I increased the amount of normal rat females that I am raising now.. but I still fear being tapped-out. Worst case scenario; I could euth and freeze them if they overpopulate. I am thinking that Friday I will swing down to the store and pick up 1.3. I have a 30g-long tank just waiting.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Diana, from everything I've read and my own experience it does seem best to leave the colony as it stands as far as the breeding group. We did try to introduce a female into our original 1:2 group. The male wasn't too bad to her but literally within seconds the two adult female ASF's very aggressively went after her, drawing blood and it seems they would have killed her had we not got her out of there quickly. Neither of our females has young litters with them, they just seemed to refuse to accept a new female into their established group.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Ouch. So it is a bit similar to breeding mice, harem style? I will do it that way then. (:
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I would get 1.5..I hear that ASF's are only good for a limited amount of litters per female per lifetime..(does that make sense?) I don't know a number, but my "sources" told me to always hold back girls for that reason...
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Hm.. the only blockade will be the hubby bickering about me spending more money.. :) But Friday's my payday..
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Jo- I'm glad I decided to keep the trio together all the time instead of removing the male once the babies were born like the guy I bought them from told me to do. It just makes more sense to leave everything as constant as possible if they are going to be so sensitive about animals rotating in and out of the group. My second litter was born a few days ago but to be honest I'm not sure if it was from the same mother or not... Things are going really well though. My only two picky eaters have already broken their fasts by taking these when they wouldn't touch my other rats.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Sometimes I'm not sure of which babies belong with which mama since they communally nurse and seem to easily nurse litters of different ages. I used to be worried the newborn ASF's would have trouble getting a meal with their bigger sibs around but it never seems to be an issue and everyone seems to get fed.
I do find it hilarious that the mothers consistently use their food bowls as baby rat playpens. I keep 3 to 4 food dishes in there at all times because there are 3 large adults, usually a litter of newborns and then older sibs not yet weaned but also eating dry food. The females will use these dishes to park babies in and even the popcorn bouncing ASF pups will stay in the dish if mama puts them there. Very cute!
I just have to watch the protective adults when I need those dishes for filling and I have to scoot the pile of babies out. Big Daddy, the large male ASF isn't as nippy as he used to be but he doesn't like anyone messing with his family group.
My other male, Psycho, hasn't fathered a litter yet with his two females and he has about 2 more weeks or he's done. No production and a tendency to attack me everytime I feed his group isn't cutting it with me. :mad:
I'm with you D, I have a couple of BP's here that would be refusing if not for the ASF's. These rats have a definite place to fill in our snake collection.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginevive
So.. I was thinking of getting some established (one male, harem setup) so that once I have hungry BP hatchlings this year, I will have a lot of food for them.
Jen,
I would post about our experience with ASF's, but I think anything I could say has been covered very well already. However, what I did want to mention is something that I have not seen anyone talk about yet, although Jo touched on it lightly. In my personal opinion, feeding ASF's to hatchlings is not a very good idea, IF you are planning on selling these animals. The reason I say this, is that a large quantity of your potential customers probably will not have access to ASF's, and if they end up getting a hatchling from you that is, as Jo puts it "imprinted", then they may have a hard time getting their new purchase eating mice or rats. We only feed our ASF's to animals that are in our permanent collection. I have often debated feeding them to hatchlings, because we have ASF babies everywhere. Now, if I could be so successful with our mice, we may just breed rodents for a living.
I hope that conveyed the message that I was trying to get across.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginevive
Hm.. the only blockade will be the hubby bickering about me spending more money.. :) But Friday's my payday..
Tell Marky that you have to spend money to make money...lol
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
i've had my ASFR's about six weeks now (1.4 per tub,9 tubs) and the only problem i have is that a couple of tubs chew up a week 's supply of food overnight.my tubs aren't high enough to accomdate a wheel but i'm told that has helped others.
last bedding change 6 tubs had 109 pinkies with 3 tubs not breeding yet.
my biggest female BP (3600 grams) was off feed since the end of july and recently took 3 asfr's as soon as they hit the floor.since then she has taken reg. rats.do they imprint? jury still out on that one,but my limited experience would seem to say no or rarely.i haven't deceided yet if i will feed them to hatchlings that i plan on selling.
should you get some? of coarse,if you don't like them just feed them off and chalk it off to experience.have fun!
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Just to follow up on my earlier comment Jen and Tim's post on this issue, to give you an idea of where ASF's fit in our feeding program. We use them more as an option I guess you'd say to our regular rats. Specifically we are using them with the following snakes that are a part of our permanent group and not likely to ever be up for sale.....
- Saoirse and Danu who were adult captives and refuse to eat or are inconsistent eaters on both mice and rats but will consistently take ASF's
- Dacey who was raised on mice but easily switched to ASF's, she is a snake that will refuse rats so the ASF's seem to be a good option for her
- Rionnach who though raised on rats exhibits an extreme pickiness in size of prey offered, with ASF's since they are her preferred size we are seeing far less refusals
- Buddy and Riordan who both seem to have missed the whole BP's are picky and imprint on prey thing - they will hit anything that's fuzzy and has a heartbeat so for these two males whether it's an ASF or a regular rat...it's dinnertime....they are both exceptions to the general rule though I would think
So basically 6 out of 23 ball pythons in our collection regularily utilize the ASF's as a food source. Like Tim we will be starting any hatchlings out on regular rats so that when they go to new owners there won't be a conflict of prey types.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twh
should you get some? of coarse,if you don't like them just feed them off and chalk it off to experience.have fun!
That is a great idea.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
I am actualy starting to think of getting a trio of them now! Yeah I wouldnt buy a snake if it was feeding on ASFRs unless I knew I could get a hold of some.
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Re: Considering ASFs.. have any advice?
Interesting! This was just the type of thread that I hoped for. I have a few BPs that will eat anything.. my pastel male, and Ginger. I actually sometimes feed mr. pastel a mouse or two if rats are scarce.. he does not discriminate.
I am thinking that by supplementing their feedings with the ASFs, I will have more ratties to feed my future hatchlings.
And yes I could always feed them off if things don't go well. Now I just hope that my friend is at the store tomorrow when I am off work! If not, there's always Saturday..
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