Striking Baby

This is my first post here. I've been reading for days learning sooo much so thank you all for that. :) I apologize in advance for the novel but I wanted to put a little history in this too before my question.

We have a 14 week old male bp that we brought home 4 weeks ago but I've been handling him since he was a hatchling. My sister is friends with the breeder so I was lucky enough to be able to get some hands on experience with him before bringing him home. Things so far have been good. He adjusted quickly to our home and seems to be happy. He has shed twice and eats a hopper mouse every Friday (he has since his first feeding). My daughter had him out last night while I cleaned his tank and he was all over her, then he took a little nap in her shirt and then spent half an hour peeking in and out of her armhole just taking it all in while she watched tv. This is pretty common with him. We handle him daily other than the 48 hours after he eats.

However, when I tried to put him back in the tank last night he started striking at me. He tried to strike 5 times, missed 4 times and bumped himself once (kind of another miss). I eventually got him back in by taking the whole top off the tank since he was striking whenever I tried to put him through the opening.

My question is why, I guess. Was I a threat since she is smaller than me? My hands were clean so I'm pretty sure I didn't smell threatening. Could he be hungry? He prowled the tank for about an hour before he settled in his warm hide. The breeder did say I may have to move him to 5 day feedings if he seemed to need it but I'm not sure what to look for to know if that's it. Could he have just been "done" with people holding him last night? Can they make a decision like, "Hey, she's trying to put me back in there and I don't wanna!!!"?

I'm just looking for some possible reasons as to why so I can do something differently next time.

Some tank info: 30 gallon tall tank with a warm side of 94 and a cool side of 80, 55% humidity. 4 hides (two warm, one cold and one in the middle. I know the tank is a little large for a baby but we have it full so he seems comfy. Lots of plants, rocks, hides and a few branches that he hangs out on.

TIA!

Sounds like he was nervous and stressed. Things we have to consider with baby snakes is that we are HUGE monsters to them, so it is not uncommon for them to strike to defend themselves. I can't explain why he tried to strike just then. Snakes have incredible sense of smell, and something on you may have triggered a feeding response even if you washed or not.

He may have been incredibly stressed out from his time spent with your daughter. Snakes are not domesticated by any means, and what we may perceive as curiosity and exploring, may be in fact stress related, and him trying to find a safe comfortable spot to hide.

Maybe next time, don't keep him out for so long, maybe a half an hour, and put him back. It's great that he's eating, putting him 5 days is a good idea.

weird that he chose that time to start striking - i have absolutely no idea. lol.


Usually they strike before being handled, not after. :snake:

Yea I'd have to agree with connie sound like you triggered the "OH MY GOD ITS A HUGE FEGING PREDATOR" responce. Keep working with him and he should grow out ot it. I had a baby that only wanted to strike as my hand left the tub.

I'd just let him chill out by him self for a week or so? that's just what I was told :) good luck..

Welcome to BPNet and please never apologize for long, informative posts when you are asking for help. It is really so much easier to offer advice if our members have information to work with like you provided. It's far harder for us when we have to deal with posts like "my snake strikes! why?" :D Providing housing, handling and information on this snake is really valuable so thanks for that.

The thing I'd say is this snake is young and simply acting as young snakes do. No matter the amount of handling, whether it's captive bred or not...it is and will remain an instinctual creature with all it's wild ways still fully intact. Things trigger snakes, sometimes as humans we'll never fully understand what the trigger at that specific moment was.

Sometimes a factor can be this snake's young age. Instincts tell young snakes that lots of things can eat them, so they tend to be more reactive and defensive. It's a survival mechanism at work. Sometimes it might be a bit too much handling or not enough, sometimes it's a sudden vibration or scent the snake picked up on, sometimes it's just a snake being a snake and 5 minutes later it's fully relaxed again. Sometimes it's hunger.

In other words, there's no absolute reason. Watch for patterns rather than specific single reactions. If the pattern is that this snake is acting up on certain days, maybe it needs to be upped on it's prey or frequency of feeding (a good digital scale is your best friend on helping you decide about that). Maybe it's not feeding but that day in your house is noisy and busy. I have snakes that will trigger defensively over something that will not trigger another snake so it's very individual as well. Learning to read a snake's signals, both subtle and outright, is part of the joy of sharing your life these amazing creatures.

I would also just say to always remain relaxed even when the snake is not. They may not be able to do higher math or bond with us like our pet dog does but I fully believe they are experts at picking up certain things. One of those things seems to be fear or anxiety in a handler. A relaxed attitude of "oh well you are just being a bit pissy hissy aren't you" really does help. Don't let the snake's attitude change yours, stick with habits and simple routines, these seems to help ball pythons be more easily handled. :)

Thank you for the quick replies! I'll definately shorten the handling visits to start and leave him alone for today and tomorrow until he eats tomorrow night. I'll also make sure I moniter his mood this time next week and if he's like this again I'll switch to 5 days feedings. He was the best eater of 7 hatchlings and eats no matter what even in shed.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

If the pattern is that this snake is acting up on certain days, maybe it needs to be upped on it's prey or frequency of feeding (a good digital scale is your best friend on helping you decide about that).

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Thanks for the advice! Can you explain how I use a digital scale to determine feeding frequency?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I would also just say to always remain relaxed even when the snake is not. They may not be able to do higher math or bond with us like our pet dog does but I fully believe they are experts at picking up certain things. One of those things seems to be fear or anxiety in a handler. A relaxed attitude of "oh well you are just being a bit pissy hissy aren't you" really does help. Don't let the snake's attitude change yours, stick with habits and simple routines, these seems to help ball pythons be more easily handled.

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I'll definately keep this in mind especially as he grows bigger. We thought he was a funny little tough guy last night so hopefully I'm not giving off bad vibes to him. I'm quite lucky that my sister has had snakes and free roaming iguanas for years so I'm pretty comfortable with reptiles in general and my girls (4 and 9) have no fear at all, but lots of respect. ;) My older daughter got a tail whip last year and that did it for her. :P They both think that reptiles are common pets and I love it! :oops:

The digital scale is just really to keep a close eye on weight gains. You want a nice steady weight gain especially as babies and one of the first things you'll be asked if you ask a question about feeding frequency or size of prey is "how big is your snake". Since length doesn't mean all that much, weight is a vital thing to know. No need to buy a hugely expensive digital scale, department stores or office supply stores often have nice scales (either kitchen or postal) for $30 or less. :) If you run a search here on digital scales you'll likely come up with loads of threads.

The other way of determining proper prey size for ball pythons is to compare the largest girth of the prey (on rodents that's the butt/hip area to the largest empty girth of your snake). A lot of us go with equal to or slightly less than girth so that when the snake eats it does not have a distended feeding bump. Others feed other ways, using other standards. As far as using weights - I generally go every 5 days until they hit about 150 to 200 grams, then every 7 after that weight is achieved.

My kids are much the same LOL. They think it's perfectly normal to have snakes all over the place. Whenever a new friend comes to play with my youngest whose 6, and they get all googley eyed over the snakes, young Michael tends to sigh, roll his eyes, shrug and mumble..."they are JUST snakes...geeze!". :)

My experience is only measured in weeks but I have observed that quick movements too close to his head and moving him past something to fast and too close will induce a strike. he has struck out 3 times and now I have the cage top open before I get near to put him in and I don't move my free hand in front of him too fast. Try to put a snake through a small opening could be a trigger.

I've been going by girth when picking the mice so I'm pretty sure his dinner is the right size. I'll pick up a scale and see how big he is and keep track of that as well. A scale was on my list for him anyway just because I want to track his weight.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

I just wanted to update that we have switched to 5 day feedings and reduced the handling time and things are going well. No more striking at all. He was out and looking for food within two minutes of us walking in the door with his mouse on Tuesday too. He caught the scent from the next room. hehe

Thanks for all the help!

theres just one thing i wanted to point out...your hot side seems a little, high i keep mine around 90 and everythings perfect

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Originally Posted by Chubbz

theres just one thing i wanted to point out...your hot side seems a little, high i keep mine around 90 and everythings perfect

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It's actually about 91 this week. I was having a little trouble maintaining the temps from day to evening so we turned the temperature up in the room to 78 and turned the UTH's down a little so we're at 82 and 91 now for the past 6 days.

Thanks for pointing it out for me though! It was bothering me that it was a little too high which was part of the reason we changed the room temp.

I swear I'm putting more work into Mugsy than I do my own kids right now! :rofl: Luckily, they are totally into it and eager to learn along with me. My 3 year old has even built herself a tub enclosure with a lego hide, castoff temp gauges and a pencil for a climbing post. This is for her four invisible snakes, Mops, Tops, Kit and Lucas. Note invisible not imaginary. There is a huge difference for her. :P

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

The digital scale is just really to keep a close eye on weight gains. You want a nice steady weight gain especially as babies and one of the first things you'll be asked if you ask a question about feeding frequency or size of prey is "how big is your snake". Since length doesn't mean all that much, weight is a vital thing to know. No need to buy a hugely expensive digital scale, department stores or office supply stores often have nice scales (either kitchen or postal) for $30 or less. :) If you run a search here on digital scales you'll likely come up with loads of threads.

The other way of determining proper prey size for ball pythons is to compare the largest girth of the prey (on rodents that's the butt/hip area to the largest empty girth of your snake). A lot of us go with equal to or slightly less than girth so that when the snake eats it does not have a distended feeding bump. Others feed other ways, using other standards. As far as using weights - I generally go every 5 days until they hit about 150 to 200 grams, then every 7 after that weight is achieved.

My kids are much the same LOL. They think it's perfectly normal to have snakes all over the place. Whenever a new friend comes to play with my youngest whose 6, and they get all googley eyed over the snakes, young Michael tends to sigh, roll his eyes, shrug and mumble..."they are JUST snakes...geeze!". :)

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Excellent, informative and helpful post:gj:
I can't give you another rep point but I can give you kudos.

Sounds like you temps are fine, they can go as high as 94 and you will be fine.

My thought is that you might be handling her a little bit too much and she is getting egdy. I have had some babies that just ball up, some run for the hills and some strike. The reality is they are all usually signs of stress, although striking could just be great feeding response too. Either way any new snake needs time to settle in and settle down, then get used to handling. This is a great place to learn from others experience and find out what makes those lil buggers tick. Welcome aboard:snake:

Ive got a few smaller 07s who are still shy and strike at me. But anything over 200g I have don't strike, they may hiss when I first touch them but I just assume its their personality. My 07 albino was and still is my most gentle one, I open the tub and she comes out of her hide and right into my hands.

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Originally Posted by Allie

I swear I'm putting more work into Mugsy than I do my own kids right now! :rofl: Luckily, they are totally into it and eager to learn along with me. My 3 year old has even built herself a tub enclosure with a lego hide, castoff temp gauges and a pencil for a climbing post. This is for her four invisible snakes, Mops, Tops, Kit and Lucas. Note invisible not imaginary. There is a huge difference for her. :P

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I'm the mother of 4, the youngest is 6 years old and I know WELL that one must respect the invisible members of one's household (at one time we had an entire imaginary family living us with...I didn't mind them until the imaginary parents started giving permission for things I'd just said no to! LOL). Now the Michael is 6 he will openly admit the difference but still defends his right to a very active imagination .."okay I'm imagining it but it still counts mom" Too cute!

Maybe your little girl would enjoy some of those really nice rubber fake snakes. Our Michael has his own ball python but also has a huge stuffed snake and two quite realistic rubber snakes (helps him to deal with the "you can't constantly play with your snake" issue). Sometimes you can use the fake snakes to practise proper snake handling too. :)

There are two types of striking.. the feeding response, and the quick defensive strike. If the snake was exhibiting a feeding response, it would have grabbed your hand and coiled around it, thinking that you were a prey item. I actually had this happen with one of my adult females.. ouch! Defensive striking is fast, shocking (to the strikee) and a result of stress. Maybe your snake was just really relaxed by being in your shirt, and got frazzled upon being "woken up?" I really think that your snake was striking defensively. Feeding strikes are pretty aggressive and can lead to the snake "chasing" as opposed to striking and retreating.