RI - antibiotics and success rates

Hi there! I'm new to the forum and unfortunatly my two carpet pythons have both got respiratory infections.

I took them to the vet on Friday and she gave them antibiotics and after taking them back today, she said that my 3yr old CP had gained a bit of weight whilst my baby had lost a tiny bit more but felt that they were still in the same condition as before the weekend.
I've heard from a lot of other snake owners that antibiotics often hasn't worked for them and wondered what the general opinion between other owners was. Also, for those who have used antibiotics how long did it take for the RI to clear up? I'm really, really worried about them so any advice is more than welcome (obviously I have also raised temperatures etc). :confused:

Thanks!

I am new too all this to, my bp was diagnosed last week with pneumonia. He is on Baytril, i have to give him a shot every 48 hours for the next 2 weeks. Today is his 3rd shot. I too was curious to when it will start to work.. He still has his mouth open... I worry, I don't want to loose him. I have never had any sick reptiles before, so like I said this is all new to me too!!!

Hi, my 5'8" RTB had an RI and I got her some antibiotics, she was originally on 2 weeks of shots, but the infection didn't clear up.. So the vet put her on 2 more weeks (which I just completed) and the infection seems to be gone now.
I also had to soak my boa everyday (for like 5-10 min at a time) to help with the infection.. it seemed to help clear her up.

Anyways, I feel like the antibiotics worked.. If the infection doesn't clear up you may need to put the snake on more antibiotics or ask the vet if there is something else you could be doing.

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Originally Posted by reptile3

I am new too all this to, my bp was diagnosed last week with pneumonia. He is on Baytril, i have to give him a shot every 48 hours for the next 2 weeks. Today is his 3rd shot. I too was curious to when it will start to work.. He still has his mouth open... I worry, I don't want to loose him. I have never had any sick reptiles before, so like I said this is all new to me too!!!

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It was my first sick reptile too! I hope your snake gets better.. I didn't see a real difference in my snake until he completed his second round of 2 week antibiotics. (My RTB was on the same antibiotics every 48hrs for 2 weeks as well)
Since you have a smaller snake you probably shouldn't need to go on a second round, hopefully you'll notice a difference soon.

hi
i have only had a few ri's in the last few years. all were a result of shipping. i use a product to treat this that is a general antibiotic. i have had 100% success rate with this. a lot of the stuff that a vet will give you will leave scars on your snake. if you would like to know any more about what i use pm me. and we can talk about it.

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Originally Posted by edie

It was my first sick reptile too! I hope your snake gets better.. I didn't see a real difference in my snake until he completed his second round of 2 week antibiotics. (My RTB was on the same antibiotics every 48hrs for 2 weeks as well)
Since you have a smaller snake you probably shouldn't need to go on a second round, hopefully you'll notice a difference soon.

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Thank you for your reply... I am sorry your snake was sick too. MY George still opens his mouth, it makes me nervous. He just had a nice 15 min soak in the tub, and he is almost done with his shed. again, thanks:snake:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

hi
i have only had a few ri's in the last few years. all were a result of shipping. i use a product to treat this that is a general antibiotic. i have had 100% success rate with this. a lot of the stuff that a vet will give you will leave scars on your snake. if you would like to know any more about what i use pm me. and we can talk about it.

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What do you mean by scars? Also, did any of yours eat at all whilst they were sick? :)

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Originally Posted by KittyKatSuperStar

I've heard from a lot of other snake owners that antibiotics often hasn't worked for them and wondered what the general opinion between other owners was. Also, for those who have used antibiotics how long did it take for the RI to clear up?
Thanks!

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I've had a snake die after the first shot, but otherwise antibiotic treatment has cured my snakes in 4-5 shots in most cases. I had to try a second antibiotic in once case.
Of course I completed the course of antibiotics after the symptoms vanished.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

hi
i have only had a few ri's in the last few years. all were a result of shipping. i use a product to treat this that is a general antibiotic. i have had 100% success rate with this. a lot of the stuff that a vet will give you will leave scars on your snake. if you would like to know any more about what i use pm me. and we can talk about it.

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Please share this information with us...after all, this is a site for people to learn, right? I don't see a good reason why useful information should only be exchanged in a PM :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by KittyKatSuperStar

Also, did any of yours eat at all whilst they were sick? :)

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I just gave George his #3 shot, and he ate last night, this is his second fuzzy since we got him 4 weeks ago. He has been hiding in his little hide spot. I touch him to see if he is ok.. Also I will add he just finished a shed too. I believe the antibiotics is working.

But just like us humans, if we start to show signs of getting better, you still finish all the meds.

here's a question, what makes you think they have an RI?

if it's just because they're whistling then they're probably just being carpets... all mine do this and it is well documented that they will make a noise from time to time that many people (including vets) fear is the first symptoms of an RI. obviously its not good to give antiobiotics when they arent needed so i'd tread carefully there.

if i'm way off from your current situation then just disregard :)

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Originally Posted by kzooherpetoculturist

here's a question, what makes you think they have an RI?

if it's just because they're whistling then they're probably just being carpets... all mine do this and it is well documented that they will make a noise from time to time that many people (including vets) fear is the first symptoms of an RI. obviously its not good to give antiobiotics when they arent needed so i'd tread carefully there.

if i'm way off from your current situation then just disregard :)

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Before I took George, I came here & asked. George was tilting his head, gasping his mouth open, constantly.... When the Vet listening to him breath, he heard some congestion. ON day #3 of shots, I'd say George is less gasping his mouth open.. he finished a shed & finally ate.

I had no idea that Snakes gets URI/pneumonia, mites too.

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Originally Posted by reptile3

When the Vet listening to him breath, he heard some congestion. ON day #3 of shots, I'd say George is less gasping his mouth open.. he finished a shed & finally ate.

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It sounds like he's being treated properly, is doing well, and is on-track to a full recovery.

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Originally Posted by kzooherpetoculturist

here's a question, what makes you think they have an RI?

if it's just because they're whistling then they're probably just being carpets... all mine do this and it is well documented that they will make a noise from time to time that many people (including vets) fear is the first symptoms of an RI. obviously its not good to give antiobiotics when they arent needed so i'd tread carefully there.

if i'm way off from your current situation then just disregard :)

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Well, my bigger cp was wheezing quite a lot, sneezing, rubbing her face against everything, not eating, and she also had mucous coming out of her mouth. My smaller one was also rubbing her head against surfaces and exhibiting open-mouth breathing. Also, she was an excellent feeder (she is still supposed to be on pinkies but went straight for my other snakes' fuzzies and munched them all when I first got her!) and suddenly refused to eat, which really isn't like her as she's terribly greedy! The vet confirmed that they both had fluid in the back of their mouths, indicating RI. :please:

I was a bit worried about giving them antibiotics as some of my friends say it hasn't worked for them and it can have side effects. However I'm trusting the vet in this case :)

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Please share this information with us...after all, this is a site for people to learn, right? I don't see a good reason why useful information should only be exchanged in a PM :confuzd:

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the product is called tylan 200. it is marketed as a bovine medicen but after talking to a few vets they say that it is more than safe for use on boids only. i have never treated a snake that did not get better.
this has ben refered to me by a few good frinds in the snake bisnuess. one of the most popular people that use it is jeff ron of boaphile plastics who has the largest collection of boas in the us. he says he has been useing this product for a over 15 years and has not had a problem.

the recommended dose. you have to figure out the snakes poundage then times that number by 1.25 and this number is the ammount of cc's you should use. there is a total of three treatments total. one ever three days. i have only ever had to extend 2 more doses for 1 relly bad problem that arose from getting a snake in the middle of winter that was not packed right.


dont get me wrong i do believe in going to the vet for real medical problems. but to me a mild case of ri is like going to the doctor for a sinus infection. ie there are pleanty of over the counter meds that will cost you a hell of a lot less than going to the doctors office.

this is just what has worked for me, and many others. i advise you talk to your vet before you do anything to your animals.
( my little disclaimer)

some will eat some wont it is relly not something to worry about till they are better from there ri.
i have a boa and i am sure others here have some snakes that have small dime sized scars from the medication the vet gives for ri. the stuff works great but usually leavs some scaring. be sure to not inject the same spot twice.

RI - antibiotics and... 01-08-2008 06:31 AM JLC You are NOT a vet and should NOT be attempting to use our site to hand out ANY sort of "medical" advice, much less prescribing "medicines". -- JLC

not sure what the heck this is souposed to be about. but most people like to make there own decisions about most things. this is a example of cencership at its worst. this is why i only posted that people should contact me for info on the product. where i tell them what it is and how to use it but warn them that this is there decision.
just last spring i helped porkchopsandcornbread aka jake out with a young sick boa he had. the total cost to get his snake better was less than 30 bucks. one trip to a vet for the same thing would be over 100 bucks. and keep in mind this is a 15 year old kid at the time.

read the damn thread title i was only shareing what had worked for me.

geeeezzzzzzzzzzz

Dude....that's not censorship. That's me expressing my opinion. (and for anyone who hasn't guessed it...that's a quote from a neg rep comment I left) Censorship would be me deleting the post.

That original post you made about this subject makes you sound like some shadowy guy standing in an alley with snakeoil hidden under your trench coat that will "cure anything"...

For what it's worth, I was about to pos rep your follow-up post because it included REAL information that anyone who wished could then ask their vet about. And then this lovely post followed on its heels. I don't have a problem with giving people all the information on something and letting them make their own choices....but this "psssssssst....I have a secret cure if you want to speak privately where no one else can see it"....not gonna fly with me.

only you expressing your opinion LMFAO. OK! it was a neg rep form you. you are a site admin. you opinion would be you posting after my post or pming me. that is like the fcc fineing someone , and when they say censorship the fcc saying no it is just my opinion.

One other thing, Tylan ONLY treats mycoplasma-related respiratory problems, it doesn't treat other bacteria.. SO, if your snake has a streptococcal based respiratory infection, good luck! :rolleyes: Also, Tylan rarely even works for rats, who are Myco factories, and instead a combo of Baytril and Doxycycline is a much better treatment option when dealing with a bad respiratory infection in the rat.

The best option is to get a culture, AT THE VET, and let them determine the course of action.

Antibiotics do not cause scarring if you are doing it properly. Baytril needs to be diluted with a bit of saline before injection, because 1) it doesn't burn as much to the snake, and 2) it doesn't cause as much of a tissue reaction, therefore less chance of scarring.

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Originally Posted by reptile3

Before I took George, I came here & asked. George was tilting his head, gasping his mouth open, constantly.... When the Vet listening to him breath, he heard some congestion. ON day #3 of shots, I'd say George is less gasping his mouth open.. he finished a shed & finally ate.

I had no idea that Snakes gets URI/pneumonia, mites too.

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okee doke, just making sure. :)

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

be sure to not inject the same spot twice.

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My Vet talked to me, showed me how to inject the needle.And of course, I knew not to inject in the same spot twice. Told me to rotate each side.

I'm not sure if tylan is the right antibiotic or for what germ, but a forum member on one of the boa forums recommended I try tylan after spending $200 at the vet and 2 weeks of Baytil 68mg pills with no results. We even tried adding a second antibiotic given in shots for an additional 2 weeks. Nothing seemed to cure the RI my girl had last year and it had been over a month since she ate. A forum member suggested I should give this tylan a try, she sent me a link and instructions along with a few threads. One of those threads was from Jeff Ronne with great results from using this tylan.

I don't know how tylan works on rats but $20.00 and a few shots later the RI was completely gone from my girl and she went right back to eating better than ever. Vet or no vet I appreciate the information and experience shared by all willing to help. I'm glad some are willing to step outside the box to help out a fellow snake owner.

verry nice post. glad your snake got better. the first time i treated a snake i bought the wong stuff i bought tylan 50 wich i thought was only a smaller bottle not a different med. this was less then 15% of the recommended dose and the snake still got better. so say what you want this stuff works.

i have no idea how in the heck we got on rats we are talking about ri in boids.

and as far as there being more than one type of RI. all i know the one that tylan must cure must be the one that pops up 90% of the time as everyone i have ever told to use it have had a healthy snake 9 days later.

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Originally Posted by reptile3

My Vet talked to me, showed me how to inject the needle.And of course, I knew not to inject in the same spot twice. Told me to rotate each side.

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glad to hear. best of luck to you. :gj:

Yes, heaven forbid we take an animal to the vet for proper treatment. :colbert:

I mentioned rats because they ALL carry mycoplasma bacteria, which is what Tylan treats(in pigs). Tylan is used in swine to prevent mycoplasmosis, which depresses the immune system causing respiratory infections. If it works, great, but if your snake has a specific bacteria that isn't susceptible to tylosin, and you're sticking your snake with needles for 2-3 weeks wondering why it's still sick, and ruining the snake's kidneys, when all you had to do was get a culture and put the snake on Amikacin..? What does that solve? Whole lotta nothin'!

Get a culture, find out what bacteria the snake has and what antibiotics will work, and go from there.

I am confused... Baytril is not good for my snake? Like I said in the beginning, I have never had a sick reptile ever. I came here for some advice, was told George may have a URI, turned out to be pneumonia, The Vet gave him 1 shot there, showed me how to do it. So for the next two weeks, every other day, inject the meds(baytril) into George. also after the shots, was told to give him a nice warm bath, which he loves...From the #3 injection. George has stopped gaping his mouth open, and is looking better(JMO). So I am sure the medicine he is on, is helping him. If not then i will go back till he is completely better. As we would with ourselves... Thank you, maybe I will bring up that medicine, Tylan up to my Vet when he calls to see how George is doing.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Yes, heaven forbid we take an animal to the vet for proper treatment. :colbert:

I mentioned rats because they ALL carry mycoplasma bacteria, which is what Tylan treats(in pigs). Tylan is used in swine to prevent mycoplasmosis, which depresses the immune system causing respiratory infections. If it works, great, but if your snake has a specific bacteria that isn't susceptible to tylosin, and you're sticking your snake with needles for 2-3 weeks wondering why it's still sick, and ruining the snake's kidneys, when all you had to do was get a culture and put the snake on Amikacin..? What does that solve? Whole lotta nothin'!

Get a culture, find out what bacteria the snake has and what antibiotics will work, and go from there.

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Baytril is fine for your snake.

Good advice Becky! We have to remember people, that over using and prescribing medicine can lead to problems with resistance in the future. Or in some cases, not even cure the problem!

There are obviously some major differences between Tylan and Baytril, the most notable to owners is price. Baytril is expensive, but it is a broad spectrum anti-biotic. I have used baytril on rats , and they have made complete and full recoveries from their RI.

For snakes, prescribing something yourself that has just been said by Becky to be useful against only Myco is missing the benefits of a broad spectrum anti-bacterial product.

I would hope everyone does the responsible thing and takes their animal to the Vet for a culture. It's best to know what your dealing with from the start. And don't promote the misuse of medicine, it CAN create resistances, especially if it is not used for the full amount of time, and can make your snake or animal sick (and probably worse) off again.

Reptile, since the Baytril is working, then that is what your snake needs to be on. If the snake hadn't shown improvement after 2-3 injections, then the antibiotic would need to be changed. Baytril is a very potent broad-spectrum antibiotic and works well for most respiratory infections.

It's really not as expensive as you may think, I have a 100ml bottle of the 100mg/ml concentration and it only cost me around $70. I love my vet :)

Yup, have to agree with Becky again. I paid $20 for my doses of Baytril, (for rats again). Unfortunately, I didn't get that good of a deal LOL. $70 for 100 ml? Sign me up! Haha

Thank you...:snake:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Reptile, since the Baytril is working, then that is what your snake needs to be on. If the snake hadn't shown improvement after 2-3 injections, then the antibiotic would need to be changed. Baytril is a very potent broad-spectrum antibiotic and works well for most respiratory infections.

It's really not as expensive as you may think, I have a 100ml bottle of the 100mg/ml concentration and it only cost me around $70. I love my vet :)

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http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...t=58707&page=2
Baytril shot scars pics by cassandra

Baytril doesn't cause scarring IF you do it properly, IE diluting with saline prior to injection. Baytril BURNS like nobody's business if given regular strength anyway, so diluting it with saline serves two purposes...

Matt, you must have an issue with taking your animals to the vet.. As well as everyone elses'.. Veterinarians are there for a reason, and even if you're not going to use them, don't suggest that other people don't. What if someone's snake has a respiratory infection, and you tell them to go to the feed store, get some Tylan and needles/syringes, and give so-and-so amount over this many days, but their snake doesn't respond. But wait, you told them it would work and not to go to the vet, right? However long goes by and their snake is drowning in its own fluids from advanced pneumonia, while the poor owner is left twiddling their thumbs waiting on meds that won't work...

Doesn't sound like good, solid advice to me..

Edit: I have a Het Pied male who came to me with a respiratory infection from shipping stress, he was on IM baytril for over a month and never scarred up. His skin is as perfect as the day he hatched. Don't tell me that it causes scars, because it doesn't. I'm even using the biggest strength of Baytril and still didn't get scars.

why was he on baytril for over a month.

i have only ever advised tylan to people when they come to me and when nothing else has worked. just like jakes boa. you are 100% right i have never and i mean never had a good experience with so called reptile vets. all you have to do is read the same medical book they do.

Matt, I don't know what your motivations were by bringing up that post. Are you trying to dissuade people from using Baytril (Enroflaxacin) because it can cause a scar?

The point Becky has been trying to make, is that scarring is really a small chanced side effect. Most if not all medications come with side effects, and when Baytril is diluted properly, the chance of scarring is very very limited.

Baytril is an excellent drug, and has shown great success for illnesses such as RI's, gastrointestinal infections, urinary tract infections and more. It is used and prescribed by thousands of Veterinarians across the country.

In the case of Baytril and taking your animal to the vet, the pros outweight the cons monumentally.

edit:
Good job btw with the Vet comment and belittling all of their 8+ years of medical training. I suppose all Vet's and MD's are really just "reading the books" and have no more knowledge than some readings right?

that is good advice to delute it. i have never herd a vet tell people to do that. did you come up with that?

No, it's because I have a GOOD vet! It's not difficult to figure out that if a drug is strong and normally burns tissues, that diluting it with saline will help stop the burning and tissue destruction.

Also, my het Pied was on antibiotics for over a month because that is what is usually prescribed. Talk to a few good reptile vets and they'll tell you. People rarely give antibiotics for a long enough period. Reptiles have such slow metabolisms that it takes longer for the antibiotics to go through their system, and they need to take them for a longer period so the infection fully clears up(not just goes away).

I take my horse to a vet who is ALSO a pharmacist.. Wonder how long he was in school? And he's useless, right? My herp vet is the ONLY vet I will take my rats and snakes too, as she is competent, and if she doesn't know something, she will go look it up. I take great pride knowing my animals are in good hands, and I have someone knowledgeable to fall back on if I have questions or concerns. I guess you don't want that for your 100s of Balls, correct?

Becky, just curious.. how much saline would you dilute with the baytril?

With a small dose, such as 0.01-0.03 I usually dilute it by 0.1-0.15ml of saline. With a bigger dose such as 0.05-0.1 I use up to 0.2ml of saline(0.3ml of fluid total going in). Seems to work better for me and disperses through the tissues easier. They don't flinch as much(except when the needle goes in) nor do they thrash about when injecting the meds in. Works well for me although I hope to not have to do it again for quite awhile.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Wonder how long he was in school? And he's useless, right?

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I agree with you. I lot of herp owners have issues with vets, as I've discovered, but I believe they spent their 7 years studying for a good reason and would trust them long before anyone else. Personally I'd never be happy giving one of my snakes antibiotics that hadn't been prescribed by the vet. They know more than I do.

Also, bad news, I took my CPs back to the vet last night and my baby has also developed mouth rot as a secondary infection. Luckily it's been caught very early and I've been given iodine to clean it daily. It's heartbreaking for me to know my animals are discomfort and I'm kicking myself for putting my two CPs together, as it's Princess Peanut who infected Pickle (who now also has mouth rot). I've learnt my lesson :tears:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...t=58707&page=2
Baytril shot scars pics by cassandra

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Excerpt from Adam:

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The side effects from Baytril injections are exclusively related to the 100mg concentration used for large bodied boids. The 22.7mg concentration that ball pythons should be prescribed does not "burn" the skin. This is often a common misunderstanding about Baytril injections. I've been treating ball pythons specifically with Baytril for well over a decade now and have never seen a single "burn" when using the correct concentration of the drug.

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From this post:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...=589772#589772

Now whether this concentration works in boas, I don't know, since I'm not a vet - but thought I'd put it out for consideration that the burns referred to may have also been a result of a higher concentration.

found this whial doing some reading around. verry cool


The Boaphile Internet

This may not be very exciting but this may be the most important E-mail I send via this little newsletter thing. Anyhow here goes!

I am not a Dr. I am barely even literate as my writings will attest. I am not a Vet or even a Vet Tech. I didn't even take Chemistry in high school (schedule conflict). Loved science and was good at it but absolutely no training or expertise in the field, but I am sharing my experience here and now. I am not recommending you follow this but am merely relaying what I have observed. There are laws I think against giving medical advise without a license. Maybe even regarding Boa medicine. I am unlicensed and only retelling what has occurred here.

As many of you know, I breed Boas. That's is, just Boas. I bred Ball Pythons once but that was really an accident. I am breeding a lot of Boas. I mean, a LOT of Boas. Every year I end up with a few Boas, which at the end of breeding season, have respiratory problems or in general get run down as a result of going through the stress of the long breeding season which, in Boas lasts from 2-5 or even up to 6 months. I have usually just watched these stressed Boas for a while keeping them slightly warmer than usual (85 degrees F or so) until the animal resumed vigorous feeding and returns to normal. Most snap out of it and take off again. However, a handful may require more TLC. I have used a number of anti- biotics with very limited success but what choice do we have but to try to do our best to take proper care of the animals we are entrusted for. I have used Amakacin, Baytril, Trimethoprim sulfa and Fortaz all with limited success. Very limited indeed. Health problems occasionally occur out of the blue at any time of the year in addition to the post breeding season. If the problem is so advanced as to be an obvious respiratory problem, it is probably quite severe and experience has taught me I have a really slim chance of curing the problem. I have had these animals to a good reptile vet for bacterial cultures and the recommended drug has been Amakacin or Baytril. These, in my experience in Boa Constrictors, have been very ineffective in bringing the animals around. Whether or not they knocked down the bacterial problem is to me irrelevant if the animal has lost the will to live. Bottom line I want the animal to spring back and do well. They seem to get so run down and just give up.

I have heard for years of the existence of a drug called Tylan or Tylosin which has been used in Burmese for chronic respiratory problems. I have heard the Burms, in some cases have been treated for months on end with this dope with good results in warding off these respiratory problems. I figured I would give it a try. I spoke with a large Python guy who said he gave 50 mg/kg of this drug every three days long term with excellent results. I decided to give it a whirl. Tylan is used in swine and cattle for a number of problems and I purchased this over the counter at a local feed store in a bottle, big enough to treat a herd of cattle along with a few sick Boas. I injected the Tylan sub q which means just under the skin. This was repeated three more times waiting three days between each injection. Normal precautions were taken with alcohol and cotton balls. The results were UNBOALIEVABLE!

Part II is the next post: *
Jeff's article continued.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Here is the remaining information:

One of the Boas I treated had had a chronic respiratory problem for about three years. This Boa was given to me by a friend of mine who was going to put her to sleep because he could not clear this up and he did not want his other animals to get this problem. She was dripping mucus from her mouth in such large quantities that she fogged up her cage glass in a matter of days after cleaning. She went into a shed and after shedding until now some 8 months later there has been absolutely no cold, no snot, nothing. She has been doing fantastic as have all the other animals I treated at that time. I had a particularly bad year last year and 11 animals with various and sundry problems which I treated with Tylan with fantastic results. Normally most of these animals would have died. They are wonderful!

Sent a preliminary copy to Dave & Tracy Barker. Dave was nice enough to sent the following response along with some additional helpful
information:

Quote:
"Hi Jeff, congrats on Volume 1, Issue 1 of the B.I.N. It is informative and interesting. Tylan was considered a wonder drug back in the mid 1970s. It cured many things that chloromycetin (our other wonder-drug back then) wouldn't touch, plus we could buy it without a prescription. It is very safe (I'm sure this isn't true, but I don't think one can over-dose it, at least I've seen it used very carelessly with no visible bad effects.) It's usually administered daily for two weeks, but I say go with what works. The thing about it is that it has little or no effect on gram-negative bacteria, which is the general type of bacteria that most-often causes disease in reptiles. But Tylan is one of few drugs that effectively treats a little-known and poorly understood group of organisms called micoplasms. Micoplasms are known to occasionally cause disease. They are difficult to culture and you have to specifically request that a culture be run for micoplasms, as they grow more slowly than bacteria. Most antibiotics have no effect on micoplasms. Most of the time Tylan is ineffective to use as a hit-or-miss antibiotic. But when it works, it can be dramatic. It would be my guess that the problems you've been seeing in your boa colony are caused by micoplasms. Just be aware that when Tylan doesn't work, it may be time to pull out the amikacin. "

Dave Barker

Perhaps Boas in particular or at least Boas here at my place have been particularly vulnerable to these microplasms. Perhaps gram negative bacteria is not so common in Boa constrictors. Who knows? I just know I am very happy to have heard about and tried Tylan which has been the "wonder drug" for my Boas coming out of the breeding season along with the stresses the breeding season brings.

Jeff Ronne

From this thread:
http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9789

just in case some dont know who Jeff Ronne is, over 20 years dealing with Boas, helped write a book considered to be the Boa Bible, keeps and breed 1000's of snakes.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

just in case some dont know who Jeff Ronne is, over 20 years dealing with Boas, helped write a book considered to be the Boa Bible, keeps and breed 1000's of snakes.

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Matt, do you have any information about the use of tylan specifically on pythons or just boas? Have you tried tylan on pythons? Since this thread was started in the python forum of the site, it might be useful information for future viewers.

Or, maybe this thread would do better in a general herp section of the site instead of the python forum?

-adam

i have only used it on one bp who came around awesome. from what i hear it is safe to use on any boid. with the same dosage scale. 1.25cc per pound of snake

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i have only used it on one bp who came around awesome. from what i hear it is safe to use on any boid. with the same dosage scale. 1.25cc per pound of snake

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Cool ... I'll run it by my vet and see what he thinks ... Dr. Scott Stahl (www.seavs.com) is one of the premier herp vets in the world and works with animals from many of the big breeders including Pete Kahl, Ian G, and Ralph Davis ... I know that he's a fan of using Amikacin or Baytil in combination with Fortaz for most boids that he treats with RI, but I'm sure he's aware of the work being done with Tylan. After I speak with him I'll post what he thinks.

-adam

This was interesting from your post, Matt:

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The thing about it is that it has little or no effect on gram-negative bacteria, which is the general type of bacteria that most-often causes disease in reptiles.

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Micoplasms are known to occasionally cause disease. They are difficult to culture and you have to specifically request that a culture be run for micoplasms, as they grow more slowly than bacteria. Most antibiotics have no effect on micoplasms. Most of the time Tylan is ineffective to use as a hit-or-miss antibiotic. But when it works, it can be dramatic. It would be my guess that the problems you've been seeing in your boa colony are caused by micoplasms. Just be aware that when Tylan doesn't work, it may be time to pull out the amikacin. .

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I think I'd be far more comfortable taking my animals to the vet to get cultures done and the appropriate medication prescribed, rather than using something that is ineffective "most of the time" and is a "hit-or-miss antibiotic" (according to Dave Baker in the post you provided) and risk their RI advancing if the Tylan were hit or miss in my case as well.

Adam, I look forward to hearing what Dr. Stahl has to say too!

Like I said in the first place; vet, culture, proper antibiotics, snake is treated and healthy. None of this piddling around hooey, giving shots of swine antibiotics(for mYcoplasmosis), and hoping they work, when all you're causing is resistance to antibiotics as that bacteria gets stronger and stronger.

If you read up on Amikacin, it's VERY hard on the kidneys when injected. Nebulized, it's not as bad. I'd rather use something else that worked and was gentler on their system.

And Matt, please get your info straight on Mycoplasma bacteria, it's a gram positive bacteria that is easily killed by fluoroquinolones, such as Baytril, which is why Baytril is preferred when an animal has Myco(such as in rats). Baytril breaks down the cell wall and thus, the bacterium dies. Tylan doesn't work with gram POSITIVE bacteria, such as Clostridium sp. It does work for Strep-based bacteria, but that's about as far as its efficacy goes.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

If you read up on Amikacin, it's VERY hard on the kidneys when injected. Nebulized, it's not as bad. I'd rather use something else that worked and was gentler on their system.

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I'm a fan of Enroflaxin as a first course for most gram neg infections ... I've also read the literature and have heard the warnings about Amikacin for over 10 years ... I also have a ton of practical experience using Amikacin without any problems ... If it's necessary and used correctly, I have no hesitation using it.

-adam