Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Hi, I'm new to the whole breeding thing. I've done a decent amount of reading into the subject but I have tons of questions.
I have a normal BP and that I believe to be male. I am getting it sexed asap. I expect to start breeding next year after I am more knowledgeable, but I'd like to start collecting my snakes now and get them ready to breed at earliest next year. I am most interested in creating bees at the moment, but I would also like to eventually make pieds and lucy's...
SO...
If i bought female a spider and a female pastel, and bred them with my normal - then 25% of the offspring would be spiders, 25% would be pastels and 50% would be normals correct?
Then I could cross my spiders and pastels to eventually make bumble bees right?
Pastel x Pastel = Super Pastel? Super Pastel x Spider = Killer Bee? Then I could introduce an axanthic in the whole mix and maybe end up with axanthic killer bees??
Are these legitimate thoughts or am i completely in the dark? I understand it could take a long time before i reach the goal of axanthic killer bees but is this a decent "game plan?"
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
[QUOTE=shizzybrane;690497]I expect to start breeding next year after I am more knowledgeable, but I'd like to start collecting my snakes now and get them ready to breed at earliest next year. I am most interested in creating bees at the moment, but I would also like to eventually make pieds and lucy's...
SO...
If i bought female a spider and a female pastel, and bred them with my normal - then 25% of the offspring would be spiders, 25% would be pastels and 50% would be normals correct?
Then I could cross my spiders and pastels to eventually make bumble bees right?
Pastel x Pastel = Super Pastel? Super Pastel x Spider = Killer Bee? Then I could introduce an axanthic in the whole mix and maybe end up with axanthic killer bees??
QUOTE]
Usually people go the other way. Normal females to codominant/dominant males. The males breed younger and breeding weight females can be harder to come by (and are pricier).
Also you can breed one male to several females, but you are limited with your females (she can only carry one clutch - if she carries at all).
But your odds are right. As an aggregate you'll get 25/25/50. With both the spider and pastels reproducing 50% within each clutch. Theoretically.
Your priority though is ensuring your females are up to weight and age.
And if you want to introduce recessives (such as axanthic) into the mix... you may consider doing it earlier rather than later.
Bruce
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Uhm yeah... so in other words. If bees are the goal. Why not just get a male pastel and female spider.
I have several normal males that had to have it broken to them this year "I love ya... but you are not a pastel. Maybe next year?" :)
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
well i got a 6 month old pastel, I want to make bees also, but im gonna wait till 2009 befor i buy a spider female, but il just breed my male pastel to my female norm and sell the babies i like you plan dude, you always have to have a plan :)
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shizzybrane
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
As a quick aside... I noticed the pics of your bp on another thread. I am the first person to tell people that ask that their normal is just a normal...
But...
Your snake has a really interesting head pattern. Hard to tell with the dry skin and the quality of the pic. But when he sheds and gets cleared up a bit. Get a good pic and post it.
Am I mistaken in that he has a somewhat of a clover mark on his head? The way the head is faded on the top...
If he does... you know... send him may way. I have lots of normal females that dig male snakes with funky head markings.
Bruce
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Is this your first ball python? May I suggest that you not be in such a rush to breed next year? Females ideally should be in their third winter (or two years of age if born in the spring) and at least 1500 grams, so you're going to need to spend two years raising your females to the proper weight.
These two years are an excellent time to tweak your husbandry skills and gain more hands on experience.
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hotshot
well i got a 6 month old pastel, I want to make bees also, but im gonna wait till 2009 befor i buy a spider female, but il just breed my male pastel to my female norm and sell the babies i like you plan dude, you always have to have a plan :)
Let me remind you that your 'plans' just last week were to breed your unquarantined male pastel to your female normal, and having no clue what to do after putting them together. That doesn't sound like you were planning there.
I also don't remember you having any clue about snake genetics or husbandry either. :rolleyes:
Glad to see that you are trying to learn. :cool:
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shizzybrane
Super Pastel x Spider = Killer Bee?
Just to correct you a bit on this data. A Killer Bee is a Super Pastel Spider. However, if the x in your above equation meant breeding, you will only get Bumble Bees and Pastels form breeding a Super Pastel to a Spider. Hope that helps.
Re: Help clear up my morph/breeding ?'s
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shizzybrane
Pastel x Pastel = Super Pastel? Super Pastel x Spider = Killer Bee?
By "x" do you meen a breeding? That's how I use it and “+” for a combination of mutations in a single snake.
So pastel x pastel does produce eggs that each have a 25% chance of getting the pastel gene from both parents (each parent is heterozygous pastel so has a 50/50 chance as to which version they pass for a combined 25% chance of both passing pastel). With a good sized clutch your odds are great of producing a super pastel from breeding a pair of pastels but not guaranteed as all the eggs could each hit their separate 75% chance of not being super pastel (the more eggs the less likely this is).
Now killer bee is a little more complicated. A killer bee is the combination of super pastel + spider but in order to produce one you need the pastel mutation on both sides. Each parent can only give one copy of a given gene so even if one parent is a super pastel and has two copies of the pastel mutation it can only give one of them to any offspring. In order for the baby to be a super pastel it has to get the pastel mutation from the other parent too. So just looking at the pastel part of the equation, both parents of a killer bee must be at least pastel. Having one or both parent super pastel just increases the odds.
The killer bee only has one copy of the spider mutation so it's only required that one of its parents have that mutation. So one way you could make a killer bee would be bumblebee X pastel. Each egg in such a clutch would have a 1 in 8 chance of getting all the right mutant gene versions to be a killer bee. Even breeding killer bee X super pastel each egg would only have a 1 in 2 chance of being killer bee so without a homozygous spider proven, killer bee may stay a somewhat difficult morph to produce, at least one you aren't going to regularly pump out 8 in a clutch. Same thing with pinstripe combos unless/until a homozygous pinstripe is produced.
