Het Lavender Albino vs Lesser

I'm at a bit of a crossroad...

I know that the long term future of the morph industry is in the most noticeable morphs to the general public... to people who aren't as into morphs as we all are. Morphs that pass the "laymen's test" will dominate (the "HOLY CRAP THAT'S AWESOME" test). The Albino, Piebald, and the purest of white Blue Eyed Leucistic come to mind...

I know that for long term investment a recessive morph is the best way to go, but they're slim pickin's these days, with the exception of the Lavender Albino. Also, the Lavender Albino, long term... how much will it differenciate itself to the general public to the regular albino (I KNOW what I just said is blasphemy to Lav Alb enthusaists, but it isn't like albino vs piebald, that's like WOAH!). Let me be clear, I LOVE the Lavender Albino.

Yet, the Lesser is codominant, and we know what happens with codoms... *makes flushing sound*... but it's still... I mean, come on, it makes a pure white snake with blue eyes! I LOVE LEUCISTICS.

I'm torn between buying a Het Lav Alb male and a Lesser male next year. They're both roughly the same price, and that just happens to be how much I can spend. I have many normal females for whoever I breed them to... and I know that with the Het Lav Alb I'd have to keep twice as many 50% Het Females as I would with the Lesser male (I can afford it)... and I know I can just do the other morph the next year...

I'm just wondering which would you do first. Think it through. I've thought about it too much, and taken way too much Advil...

I agree with your assessment that when eventually selling morphs to the general public (ie: people who just want an interesting good looking pet and are not interested in breeding or collecting like a lot of us here are), the most important criteria will be the WOW factor. I don't see Axanthics or Hypos Covering that. I DO see Albinos, Pieds and Blue eyed Leucistics being more popular like you said. So, I guess if thats what you're looking for, you kind of answered your own question. Don't think of the lesser as being yet another co-dom, think of them as being het blue eyed Leucistics. While the lesser may eventually tank in price like every other co-dom, I think a good quality white snake will hold it's value longer. They really are eye catchers.

Well, I bought both so I will suggest that. Lesser's are going to be even cheaper this season. My guess is they will be $500 or less by daytona. I am sure you will be able to pick up a het lav male and a male lesser in daytona this year for $1500 or less.The lavs still have a long time before they are at a price where the general public will be interested, but I do agree that when they eventually do reach the pet stores most pet people probably really won't care if they get a lav or a normal albino. IMO the best morph to buy into even after all these years is pieds. No matter how many there are out there they will always sell. This season I am hoping to make quite a few and I don't plan to start selling females until I have at least 10-15 visuals. My goal is to eventually have a whole rack full of pieds.

i doubt they will be 500 or less by daytona( maybe at daytona, but surely not on kingsnake or something) but i do know their prices are droping. i say get what you like, im getting a lesser soon because i like them over pieds and albinos. I really do not think money you make off of them should be the biggest problem, i would much more prefer looking at and cleaning up after a lesser than any het. I think being het bel and a morph itself will keep their prices from not droping too low, but every morph drops somewhere along the lines anyways.

At the end of the day I just buy what I like. I really don't think of future values. If you are gonna take care of the animal (clean poop)for the next 20-30 years you better enjoy that animal. So in other words get the one that puts the biggest smile:) on your face and you will never be disapointed.

I do agree with you, although Lavs are hot you have to be a BP enthusiast to appreciate them. Follow your heart not your wallet and you will be happier overall.

My personal opinion lessers should hold their market value very well... They are key for sweet combo morphs like the kingpin and queen bee which are definitely eye grabbers. They make all morphs that much sexier so I say go with the lesser.

I am getting an albino after my vacation is up becuase of the obvious WOW factor. On the other hand i find the prices of the lav albino to be crazy as of now. In the end as stated above you have to get one you like. What if you put all this time and money into something and it wouldn't produce? Would you still be happy with your purchase. A lesser is a great morph. If your saying you have a lot of normals i wouldn't even consider a het anything unless you were buying a pair. Imaging waiting 6+ years just to find out you got scammed or they wouldn't produce i don't know about you but that would make me pissed. With a male you could breed him to all your females and hopefully be swimming in lessers in just year or two. I love co-doms and of course recessive do hold their value but you get your results faster the dominant way. I don't belive you could go wrong with the lessers first of they are drop dead beautiful by themselves. On top of that look at all the possiblities. In six years if all well goes well you could have the cream of the crop, the blue eyes luecistic. Wait it out save up and i garantee you will change your mind a bunch messing around with possible buys.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eel88

In six years if all well goes well you could have the cream of the crop, the blue eyes luecistic. Wait it out save up and i garantee you will change your mind a bunch messing around with possible buys.

Good luck!

---

Why would it take 6 years to produce a bel from a male lesser?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

i doubt they will be 500 or less by daytona( maybe at daytona, but surely not on kingsnake or something) but i do know their prices are droping.

---

Most KS prices are over what the animals are actually selling for though. Last year in Daytona I picked up a sweet male lesser from one of the biggest breeders in the world for $750 without even making an offer. I just asked how much and he told me that price. I saw a few later in the show selling for even less. You may be right though, KS prices will probably still be above $500 next year but I think the actual selling price will be around $500. I did not buy my lessers thinking of money though. I want a white snake that is acually white. My 07 male is aready breeding 4 normals and 1 female lesser. I am really hoping that female lesser takes...

I think there is big difference between the normal albinos and the Lavenders the Lavenders do carry that WOW factor in my opinion but than again I'm obviously biased...lol

Normal albino
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...ch_mom_031.jpg

Lavender Albino
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...utch_mom_8.jpg

If that picture doesn't make you go WOW nothing will...HA

Ralph Davis's Picture and Animals
www.ralphdavisreptiles.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

I think there is big difference between the normal albinos and the Lavenders the Lavenders do carry that WOW factor in my opinion but than again I'm obviously biased...lol

Normal albino
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...ch_mom_031.jpg

Lavender Albino
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...utch_mom_8.jpg

If that picture doesn't make you go WOW nothing will...HA

Ralph Davis's Picture and Animals
www.ralphdavisreptiles.com

---

I agree, I think there is a big difference as well which is why I bought my hets. I just don't know if when they eventually become pet store snakes if the general public will care one way or the other. Especially since they usually don't get there really good lav color until they get older. Either way, it will be a LONG time before lavenders beome pet shop animals so I am not worried about it at all. I am much more worried about getting a good clutch from my female this season, and maybe even getting a little Larry luck.

haha ive seen lessers on ks with 5 05 females for 375? I dont know what everyone is talking about not being able to find one for under 500$

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellyBelly

haha ive seen lessers on ks with 5 05 females for 375? I dont know what everyone is talking about not being able to find one for under 500$

---

???? No, you haven't. Is this post meant to be a joke? Or are you just a troll?

The lav pic looks like they just turned the purple up on the entire pic. Too bad they didn't use a better pic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eel88
In six years if all well goes well you could have the cream of the crop, the blue eyes luecistic. Wait it out save up and i garantee you will change your mind a bunch messing around with possible buys.

Good luck!

Why would it take 6 years to produce a bel from a male lesser?
__________________

From what i understood all he has is normals as of now. So if he breed his lesser to a normal the most he would get are lessers. Then you'd raise them up and breed back to the male and that would take an additonal 3 to 4 years to raise up the females and then of course breed to the male. Thats all i was saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eel88

Quote:

From what i understood all he has is normals as of now. So if he breed his lesser to a normal the most he would get are lessers. Then you'd raise them up and breed back to the male and that would take an additonal 3 to 4 years to raise up the females and then of course breed to the male. Thats all i was saying.

---

I know what you were saying, but it is not going to take six years. 4 years is the most it should take assuming the male actually breeds and he has a few adult normal females.

Lesser's are amazing I own one so I'm a little bia's. Don't worry about what they are going to be worth buy what you love.:twocents:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

I agree, I think there is a big difference as well which is why I bought my hets. I just don't know if when they eventually become pet store snakes if the general public will care one way or the other. Especially since they usually don't get there really good lav color until they get older. Either way, it will be a LONG time before lavenders beome pet shop animals so I am not worried about it at all. I am much more worried about getting a good clutch from my female this season, and maybe even getting a little Larry luck.

---

Well bro your het female is prime time now. What does she weigh 2000-2500grams? I know she was a monster 2yr old. I remember you saying your het male lost interest late in the season, this year he should be prime time as well. I'm pulling for ya man, nice clutch of 10 wouldn't your feeling for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellyBelly

haha ive seen lessers on ks with 5 05 females for 375? I dont know what everyone is talking about not being able to find one for under 500$

---

You must be mistaken maybe you saw a mojave.:colbert:

5- 05 females alone will cost you over $350 unless they are pieces of crap.:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Well bro your het female is prime time now. What does she weigh 2000-2500grams? I know she was a monster 2yr old. I remember you saying your het male lost interest late in the season, this year he should be prime time as well. I'm pulling for ya man, nice clutch of 10 wouldn't your feeling for sure.

---

Yea, she is about 2100g empty now. This year I am not breeding the het male with anything but her and I am only putting her with him once or twice a month. He just locked up for the first time this year about a week ago so I am hoping that with him starting up about 6 weeks later and him only breeding one girl this year he will have a little more stamina for later in the season. I actually would not be too shocked to see a big clutch out of her. Her 1 good egg last year was only 70g so I am hoping she is one of those girls that lays a lot of small eggs instead of only a few large ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

Yea, she is about 2100g empty now. This year I am not breeding the het male with anything but her and I am only putting her with him once or twice a month. He just locked up for the first time this year about a week ago so I am hoping that with him starting up about 6 weeks later and him only breeding one girl this year he will have a little more stamina for later in the season. I actually would not be too shocked to see a big clutch out of her. Her 1 good egg last year was only 70g so I am hoping she is one of those girls that lays a lot of small eggs instead of only a few large ones.

---

Best of luck with that clutch John!!:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beardedragon

i doubt they will be 500 or less by daytona(

---

they are allready for sale on ks for 750 shipped 500 is not a far strech.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WellyBelly

haha ive seen lessers on ks with 5 05 females for 375? I dont know what everyone is talking about not being able to find one for under 500$

---

you should of bought them then. even if you fliped them you would of made enaugh to buy a high end morph. LOL:8:

You know what probably made up my mind? Having a bunch of visible morphs that are Het BEL, rather than a Het Lav Alb and a bunch of 50% Het Lav Alb females. I think about the albino I have now and my heart fills with pride whenever I feed him or clean his cage, LOL.

If I can get a Lesser male for $800 or below, I'll be getting one, or maybe 1.1. Breed the male to all my normals, keep the female Lessers, raise them up, and by that time I might just be able to buy a male Leucistic. In the meantime I can also get in on the Lavender Albino project, and maybe pick up a Bumble Bee to cross with the Lesser.

You guys rock.

Sounds like a plan both are awesome projects so it's a win win.

Im not doubting anyone, but can everyone finding these cheap lessers give me a pm with a link? I cant find one under $800

I still say go with the lesser(try finding a older one), breed him to 10 females that you buy next , and you can buy a lav albino( and much much more) withen the next year or two.

I would also like to see where you can find a lesser for anything under 1000... Most all ads on KS are 1300 but I did find 1 breeder sellin em for 1000. With it being this late in the season and availability being rather limited I think 800$ lesser will be hard to find.

As previously stated they are much cheaper at the begining of the hatching season(Daytona) bc everyones sellin em. Supply is high and breeders are trying to make sales so they shave some $$ off the top to keep your interest. Basic economics.

When it comes to shopping for animal I'm more of a trust and quality shopper than anything. There are always deals but there is always a reason for those deals..ie Bad reputation, sub par animals.

For those reasons I don't mind paying a couple hundred extra going with someone I can trust. The peace of mind is well worth it. After all I'm shopping for breeding stock so I'm looking for top quality.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I would also like to see where you can find a lesser for anything under 1000... Most all ads on KS are 1300 but I did find 1 breeder sellin em for 1000. With it being this late in the season and availability being rather limited I think 800$ lesser will be hard to find.

As previously stated they are much cheaper at the begining of the hatching season(Daytona) bc everyones sellin em. Supply is high and breeders are trying to make sales so they shave some $$ off the top to keep your interest. Basic economics.

---

Have you tried calling a few of the breeders selling them and making an offer? I am not saying to shop with a dealer that has a bad rep or subpar animals. The big breeders listen to offers just like the smaller guys do. The worst a seller can say is no and as long as your offer is not ridiculous they will usually either say yes, or at least come back with what the lowest price they are willing to take is.

I def shop around when I buy my snakes and never pay the price listed but even so I still havent found many people willing to drop their price 250$ on a 1300$ snake. When I bought my female pastel I talked to a guy who had one listed at 1,000$ for a 06 female. I ended up buying mine for 650... I told the guy I had an offer for a snake that was just a wee bit under his snakes looks for 650 and I was willing to pay more for the better snake... I offered him 850. He refused my offer and said 1k is all im willing to take. With this story Im not saying that all breeders arnt willing to work with you bc thats a lie. The majority of my transactions are im willing to pay X are you interested? and most say lets do it. But I have noticed a general trend of breeders tightening up their butt cheeks when doing business late in the season. Just an observation of mine that is in no way a clear cut view of the market.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

When it comes to shopping for animal I'm more of a trust and quality shopper than anything. There are always deals but there is always a reason for those deals..ie Bad reputation, sub par animals.

For those reasons I don't mind paying a couple hundred extra going with someone I can trust. The peace of mind is well worth it. After all I'm shopping for breeding stock so I'm looking for top quality.:)

---

Quality here too I got burned by someone selling cheap in the beginning be careful.:oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

When it comes to shopping for animal I'm more of a trust and quality shopper than anything. There are always deals but there is always a reason for those deals..ie Bad reputation, sub par animals.

For those reasons I don't mind paying a couple hundred extra going with someone I can trust. The peace of mind is well worth it. After all I'm shopping for breeding stock so I'm looking for top quality.:)

---

Every time I bought a snake I weeded through stacks and stacks of whoever's stock it was, and when it came to morphs, I made sure I got pick of the litter. Next thing though is making sure that I, as a small timer, am known as having top quality stock and being trustworthy.

I think that might be another reason for me to go with the Lesser rather than the Het Lav Alb. I can sell Lessers bred from my top notch normal females a lot better than 50% Hets, being a nobody. And in one generation prove I've got the quality, but also the real thing (them being visible morphs).

I've seen some really nice Lessers out there. I'm looking forward to the next breeding season and see who's got the best stuff (I'll have a lot to chose from).