Help! With rescued bally

So, someone offered up an 8 mo. old bally in the paper (couldn't keep it, they had a 4 mo. old kid...you do the math. Gotta love that forethought.) and I took him in. He came in a 10g, no hides but a fake plant, most of his space taken up with a basking branch, and a weak lamp with no UTH. I gave him a UTH immediately (along with a thermometer) and after letting him chill a couple days, two hides, with some moist papertowels to up his humidity (his skin's a little wrinkly). He's also underweight, and though they claim he was on f/t, hasn't eaten yet in three or so attempts. He came home on the 4th, so I'm not quite panicked yet, but it's still bugging me he won't eat. I haven't vetted him yet, since I like to get snakes eating before I do anything stressful to them, but at least to my observations he's got no mouthrot or obvious disease, but he's pretty underweight, almost triangular at this point, as he's never been fed on anything above pinkies apparently. Temps are 93ish on the warm end and usually 82ish on the cool, I've been letting temps drop at night just in case he's not used to having two heat sources yet (probably unnecessary, but I like to make changes slowly) and the ambient humidity's usually around 50 though I had it bumped up for the first week or so.

I'm pretty new to ballies so I'm not sure at what point I should really begin to worry and take him to the vet for force-feeding. Is it that time yet, or do I still have some chances to find out what, if anything, works? They said he eats in the cage, on paper, so I've been trying variations on that, but I'm about to try putting him in a nice opaque deli cup overnight, then a live pink, etc since nothing so far has worked. I'm waiting 5-6 days in between trials, is he safe enough that I could just leave him alone 10 days or so and try again?

Basically I just want to know whether I should be worried yet. Though suggestions are wonderful too!:please:

First off, good for you for taking this snake in but I do hope you've got it quarantined from anything else in the house just in case. You never know what things a rescue can bring into your house.

I would keep the temps proper and stable with no drops. Make sure the snake is using both hides. Is here any obvious issue other than the low weight like stuck shed, etc.?

What prey were they and you offering? Pink as in pinky mouse or pink as in pinky rat? If he's that age and skinny I'm guessing a pinky mouse which makes an almost non-existant meal for even the youngest of BP's really.

I'd prioritize his housing right now. Make sure this snake is properly warm and able to thermoregulate. Make sure he has hides that are right for a BP. Make sure his enclosure is in a quiet, low light area of your home with little noise, vibrations and disturbance. Wait one week.

Purchase a live mouse. Since he's used to a very tiny meal don't jump up to a huge adult mouse at first, just a nice young adult or big hopper type size. Have the pet store give you a big handful of smelly bedding too. Wait till after dark. Place the mouse in a well ventilated container it can't escape from with it's bedding. Place this container on top of the snake's enclosure and walk away for an hour. If you'd prefer this snake take rats then see if you can get a live chubby rat fuzzy or very small pup. The only problem with that is this age of rat cannot live without it's mother so if the snake refuses a live fuzzy rat, you're stuck putting it down. Try the mouse if mice are what this snake is used to...probably best to not mess with a prey change at this point.

After that pre-scenting time, very quietly introduce the live mouse into the snake's enclosure at the furthest point from the snake (allows your snake to set up it's strike...never drop live prey in a snake's face). Don't move quickly, don't hover over, don't remove anything from the snake's home, just slip the mouse in and sit nearby, keep the lights low and the noise in the room to a minimum. Allow 20 minutes for the snake to hit. If it doesn't, remove the mouse at that point. If it does strike, confirm it's going well then leave the area so the snake can settle down to swallow it's prey in privacy. Don't hover over it.

I would not be handling this snake at all right now other than basic cage maintenance. We have a caresheet here for ball pythons that's worth a look to confirm your husbandry is bang on. A lot of feeding refusals are rooted in husbandry problems or stress on the snake.

Yeah, he's quarantined right now. No stuck shed that I can see, and although I haven't had him out since the original inspection and a couple times since I don't think he's blue, he hasn't been when I've seen him out and about. He does spend time outside the hides, but uses both of them, and they're not too big for him. He's in a dark part of the house, but he gets light from his lamp during the day. They said they fed him f/t mice pinks, which even though he's small seems tiny to me. I've been offering him small f/t fuzzies, though I'd move up to larger ones once he'd taken one with no regurges or anything. I'll try live in a week, shouldn't be a problem...I just wanted to make sure he wouldn't be harmed by waiting that long. They said he was due to eat when I got him on the 4th, so it's been over 20 days since he ate and he's pretty thin already since he's only ever eaten pinks and he's 8 months old. Or so they say; he looks small for that age to me.

If you're an experienced f/t feeder and wish to stay with f/t then I'd say just keep trying but for some of these snakes the only trick that works to trigger them is the live feed sometimes. Poor snake no wonder it's skinny if all it's ever had is a measly pinky mouse and it's 8 months or so old now. :( You definitely want to get it eating and eating more appropriately sized prey.

I would suggest a fecal float done as soon as you can get a fecal sample just to rule out any internal parasites. If they purchased it originally from a pet store that can be an issue sometimes. If it continues to refuse and everything you try isn't working then a call to your herp vet is in order. Do you have access to a digital scale by any chance. Tracking weight is a really good thing with rescues (well with any snake, but more so with rescues that aren't in great shape).

I do prefer to stick with f/t yeah, but as he's the only one having trouble it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to feed live, and I think I could switch him over once he's established feeding. I was prepared to have to pick up live for my BRB anyway, but she turned out to be a f/t eating pig, lol.

I think I may take him in to see my vet, with a sample if I can get one, if he hasn't eaten in another ten days or so. That gives me some time make sure he's settled in and this isn't just a stress/husbandry issue before I freak him out with a vet trip. I don't have a digi scale yet, the one I ordered got discontinued so I'm waiting til after the Christmas mailstorm to order more stuff (my last bunch of herp supplies hasn't even arrived yet! WTF!) but I can use another herper's scale temporarily, maybe. I really don't think this snake can be 8 months old. Even if it's a male, he's just...too little to be that age. I think they miscalculated or something.

I definitely suggest you borrow that scale and get a weight and the vet trip might be a good idea. I agree it's best to try first and get him eating before you freak him with anything else.

I use this this scale and really love it.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/My-Weig...l-p-16191.html

This particular supplier is amazing, great service, fast order filling and great shipping. Rich is my personal favorite to order snake supplies from.

You never know about size and age. We adopted a female ball python a couple of years back. She was confirmed to be approximately 18 months old but had been consistently underfed her whole life (the previous owners followed some very BAD pet store advice). When Kyna came in she was barely bigger than an average 6 month old ball python. With a proper feeding routine she very quickly caught up to female snakes her age and is in fact currently breeding this year with one of our males. Taken proper care of, these snakes are very resiliant.

Hmm, so I guess he COULD be 8 mo old. And it's bad pet store advice that's exactly the reason he's so thin. They were feeding him pinkies just like they'd been told!

Thanks for the link! Not a bad price for a good scale.

Grr... stupid pet stores with their "We will hire people who know absolutely nothing about animals so they can't rebel" attitudes... I've seen more beautiful animals ruined by pet store 'advice'...

Ok, that's my rant. But I just wanted to say that, even though pinky mice are totally wrong for any healthy BP... they can be a lifesaver for an injured, malnourished little one. :) If your rescue really is around 8 months old, and that small/underfed, then I would say to offer a live hopper and see where that goes.

Lotsa luck with that one, and Kudos to you for taking him in!

Jo has already given you great advice so I can't add anything. Please keep us updated and post pics when you can. Good luck - remember, ball pythons are pretty tough reptiles.

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Originally Posted by Alice

Good luck - remember, ball pythons are pretty tough reptiles.

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Heck yeah, Alice! I remember a BPNet member with a ball python he rescued that was so badly burnt, that I don't think anyone here thought that snake had a snowball's chance in hell of recovering. Good care, good eats...a few months later you can barely see the damage. Look at little Grace, Tim and Monica's spider, born with her heart outside her body and now today, a lovely healthy little spider with barely a scar to show for her trauma. Even Mike and I have had snakes come to us, having not eaten in a year, really underweight, covered in stuck shed. Give them time, care, food....they come back and you'd never know they'd had such a hard time of it. These are tough snakes that given the right set of circumstances seem to be able to triumph over a lot of stuff.

Snagged a friend's camera and picked up a digital gram scale tonight. The little guy refused another f/t peach fuzzy last night (I was trying him in the deli-cup method, my last shot before live feeding) so I gave him a good soak and cleaned his cage (probably the first time it's ever been done, poor thing) and took this opportunity to weigh and photograph him. I changed his set-up from how his original owners had it, for one there was a big fake plant in a coffee can and a huge branch taking up all the room, and for another those things weren't able to be cleaned well, not that I think they ever cleaned his cage in the first place, if the layer of urate powder underneath the aspen I took out is any sign.

He apparently weighs 49g. I tried him in a cup (minus the cup's weight) and out, moved him around, etc and got the same thing. Do you think I should risk stressing him further when he hasn't eaten in roughly a month, and just take him to my vet? I don't have a stool sample yet. Or should I still try a live hopper first, with pre-scenting etc, once it's been a few days since his last feeding attempt? Here's pics of him, sorry they kinda suck but I'm not good at using this camera.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh022.jpg
With my hand, for comparison.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh019.jpg his cage, now that I made it more humidity-friendly and with less unsterilisable crap in it--
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh025.jpg
He's pretty thin and flabby, and seems to dehydrate rather easily
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh030.jpg
His rear seems...fat. Could this be a problem? I've soaked him, but no poop, and that area doesn't feel squishy or anything...
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh020.jpg
Poor skinny Edgey-poop :C
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...hhhhhhh032.jpg

I want so badly for him to make it. I had no idea he was in such bad shape when someone pointed him out to me in the paper, I just wanted to get into keeping pythons and thought I'd rather rescue an unwanted one than order from a breeder. If I'd known he was unhealthy I would still have adopted rather than bought, but this makes me feel overwhelmed as a new BP owner, even though I am used to keeping other snakes.

So, based on pics and his weight, should I just vet him early tomorrow when they open or do I have time to wait and try some more stuff before stressing him with the vet? I want to do whatever will make him healthy the fastest, so he can come out and be my buddy :cool:

Wow... looks an awful lot like my little rescue guy. Who also hadn't eaten in a month or more, is supposed to be 3 months old and weighs 44g, and also 'wrinkles' up easily due to bad prior dehydration.
When they are dehydrated badly for a long time, like mine was, they can build up very hard urate stones that can clog the works and swell their tail ends like that. I took mine to a vet and the stuff was squeezed out, so I would recommend you take yours in as well. Just make sure the box you take him in is nicely padded and warm but not too dry and he should be ok.

Just a few things as recommendations for his home:
What size tank is that?? If it's bigger than a 10 gallon, store it away and get him in a 10 gallon or equivalent size tub. Especially since he's got so many issues.
Make sure to cover the back and sides with background at least if not insulation. He needs all the security and stable temps he can get.

Ok, that's my say on the subject. He's a pretty little guy, so hopefully he'll pull through in your care. :)

He's in the 10g he came in. I can put up some background though. I want to move him in a tub once I've gotten him eating, but I'm afraid to do to much that might stress him...

I wasn't sure whether to wait and try to feed him live once, or just take him in to the vet ASAP. I'll call my vet now and see if they're open today or tomorrow.