What does this look like?

http://www.crazychicago.com/01.jpg'
http://www.crazychicago.com/02.jpg
http://www.crazychicago.com/03.jpg
http://www.crazychicago.com/04.jpg

This is my mystery het dinker project. What do you think? Normal, poss. het for something, Pied markers? something else? I was thinking fire until I saw his belly.

Looks like a great looking big normal. :gj:

I'm thinking cool normal. What makes you think its a het?

This is the one that was being sold by a guy for another breeder as normals. I was told that the original breeder wanted to get rid of a bunch of 100% het males to the pet market, but the seller said they are absolutely hets for the same recessive morph. He wouldn't get into the genetics because they were cheap and the guy told him to unload them as pets. I took a gamble, as I really liked this guy and I have an extra female for him. He's thin, but he eats like a fiend, and I'll be pairing him up for holdback females later in the season.

If you want to produce morphs...dinking around with mystery hets probably isn't the best way to go about it.

I'd be weary of a seller that wouldn't even mention what the original breeder was working with. Sounds like the flipper was trying to talk up a normal male to me.

Like I said I took a gamble with this guy. I know he could very well be a normal, but the guy I bought it from has a reputation for being a knowledgable and honest breeder. Even if he proved to be normal, I wouldn't mind using him to father some pastels, cinnies or mojaves in a couple of years. If those flames add anything to his offspring he would throw some killer looking co-doms.

i have a female around that looks just like that. if it is a male why would you want to breed him to a pastel female. when you can go to any reptile show and buy a pastel male that is breeding size for 100 bucks. and make supers. if he is a normal male and you plan on breeding snakes. there is no reason to keep normal males.

He looks like one of my females.
You can send him my way and I'll prove him out for ya! ;)

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i have a female around that looks just like that. if it is a male why would you want to breed him to a pastel female. when you can go to any reptile show and buy a pastel male that is breeding size for 100 bucks. and make supers. if he is a normal male and you plan on breeding snakes. there is no reason to keep normal males.

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I get it. I'm planning to spend a few years to see what he throws or if he's a het. I wouldn't sacrifice a super pastel, or a pastave, or a BEL or pewter project to breed a normal male to a female morph. I have a male pastel, spider, mojo and albino, and of course I'll be producing combos before I ever give a female morph to a normal male. He's a dinker project. If he proves out in 2010 to be a het for something cool, great. If in the next few years it looks like he's able to produce animals with nice flames and blushing, than why wouldn't I give him an extra co-dom female to try and hatch some improved base breeders? I'm not going to push any male morphs out of the the way to get a normal in there, but I liked him, and I have the next 20 years to dink around with him if I want. If he gets pushed to the side due to better projects that's cool. If his offspring are all very normal looking, and his daughter's and his offspring aren't special, that's cool too. I'm not going to take my female cinny or pastels or albino and say, "I could make all these cool combos, but this normal guy I picked up for $30 looks promising". :rolleye2:

Het for what recessive trait?

That's the thing, he wouldn't tell me the supposed genetics. He said the breeder told him to sell them as normals for $30, so he can't tell me what the sire was or he could sell them for a lot more. He said he was only selling them as normals, but he guaranteed that if someone wanted to take the time to breed him back to his daughters, they would produce visuals. I normally would just laugh and walk away, but I really liked this guy and I respect the seller, so I grilled him for a while and bought him. Only time will tell, if this project doesn't get pushed aside.

You didnt get them from a breeder in Ca did you? I got 2 girls sold as normals with the same back story from someone at the sac show. Didnt care if they turned out to be normals, figured they were pretty enough to be an interesting dinking project:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/S6300270.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/S6300272.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/S6300275.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/S6300276.jpg

These two out of the clutch have VERY high gold and interesting belly markings(especially the first one). Both females

No, these were in Illinois, and all he had were males. If they were females I would have grabbed a few of them since they all looked nice.

If he's healthy and feeding, $30 is a great deal for any ball python, IMO...

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

but the guy I bought it from has a reputation for being a knowledgable and honest breeder.

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And I know who it is...

Dude, This is what its all about! Breed that male to a few girls. That gives you 3-4 years of Hoping its something! I'm not saying it is something. But Imagine if it proves? Thats Golden.. Thats 3-4 years that kept you Happy and excited about YOUR animal! And Ball Pythons... If it proves to be normal? Thats still a plus! It kept YOU in the hobbie for 3-4 more years With a GOAL! WIN WIN in My book! NOW JUST DO IT!:gj:

Seems fun enough.. who knows, you might get some orange ghosts or albinos or something crazy. If you feel like it, I'd breed him to a normal female, and then holdback his daughters and breed him to them. Who knows?
But as for knowing what it looks like; hets for snakes like ghosts, albinos, etc. look normal. So appearances really aren't important unless you were trying to prove out his traits (he seems pretty "chrome-y" with little yellow) then appearances don't matter in that department.
I think that you're at least going into it with the right attidude; if he is simply a normal and you get normies out of him, you don't mind, and that's cool.

most people that sell snakes that are poss hets as normals. are selling them because they are 33% pos pos het for god knows what. the odds are you are going to gain nothing but breeding training out of this. wich is good but i bet dollors to mole hills( i think that is how that saying goes) you will end up in the end with a ton of normal snakes. i for one would not waste my time. but if you are in it for the pure joy of proving out a pos pos morph go for it. keep us posted through the next 7 years. LOL if i am coming off mean i relly dont want to. i just hate to see a person with there hopes in the clouds with a project that most of us would not reccomend. you best bet is to go at least buy a 1.1 of what ever morph you have your heart set on. most people will even give a free het male with the buy of a het female.

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Originally Posted by RKO

And I know who it is...

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As well as who he got them from...

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Originally Posted by Nagini88

You didnt get them from a breeder in Ca did you? I got 2 girls sold as normals with the same back story from someone at the sac show. Didnt care if they turned out to be normals, figured they were pretty enough to be an interesting dinking project:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/S6300270.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/S6300272.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/S6300275.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2/S6300276.jpg

These two out of the clutch have VERY high gold and interesting belly markings(especially the first one). Both females

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that first belly pic you have looks kind of like a yb

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Originally Posted by Rapture

If he's healthy and feeding, $30 is a great deal for any ball python, IMO...

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I agree. He's big and eats like a monster, so I have no complaints.

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Originally Posted by RKO

And I know who it is...

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A lot of people know. I posted the name last week. These are just the follow up pictures. :)

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Dude, This is what its all about! Breed that male to a few girls. That gives you 3-4 years of Hoping its something! I'm not saying it is something. But Imagine if it proves? Thats Golden.. Thats 3-4 years that kept you Happy and excited about YOUR animal! And Ball Pythons... If it proves to be normal? Thats still a plus! It kept YOU in the hobbie for 3-4 more years With a GOAL! WIN WIN in My book! NOW JUST DO IT!:gj:

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That's what I think. I don't understand some of the gripes people have about having a normal male. While I believe the guy that he is a het for some simple recessive, everyone should have dinker projects. Let's get the number of proven genetic base morphs up there. While I'd rather it be a female to mess around with, The one I liked was a male (still talking about snakes here). It gives me something to look forward to for years to come. If it proves out to be just a nice normal, I'll still have my morphs and plenty of combos and other projects hatching out by then. No worries, they can't all be winners.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Seems fun enough.. who knows, you might get some orange ghosts or albinos or something crazy. If you feel like it, I'd breed him to a normal female, and then holdback his daughters and breed him to them. Who knows?
But as for knowing what it looks like; hets for snakes like ghosts, albinos, etc. look normal. So appearances really aren't important unless you were trying to prove out his traits (he seems pretty "chrome-y" with little yellow) then appearances don't matter in that department.
I think that you're at least going into it with the right attidude; if he is simply a normal and you get normies out of him, you don't mind, and that's cool.

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I know he's not het albino or OG. He gave me that much, because I already have an albino project, and there was no way I was buying it to find out in 3 years I bought another het albino male. The male OG hets were right next to these guys on the table being sold as such, and the seller made it sound like hets for whatever he was claiming mine was were pricier than his OG het males. I know hets for recessives don't have any visable signs, except for the poss. het pied markers. With the pics I was basically asking if it looked normal, showed het pied markers (I still don't see what people are talking about when they post pics of pied markers), or if it looked like some dominant trait that I might not be familiar with yet. A lot of these new dominant traits are really subtle, like the spectors, so I was looking for opinions. I'm sure if it was a dominant trait it would have been sold and priced as such, but it doesn't hurt to ask for other opinions when there are so many subtle new morphs.

yeah, that was my thought, but I cant say for sure untill I breed her 2+ years down the road XD I'll probably do it when I get a pied. if she turns out normal, I'll atleast have 100% het pied babies XD

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

most people that sell snakes that are poss hets as normals. are selling them because they are 33% pos pos het for god knows what. the odds are you are going to gain nothing but breeding training out of this. wich is good but i bet dollors to mole hills( i think that is how that saying goes) you will end up in the end with a ton of normal snakes. i for one would not waste my time. but if you are in it for the pure joy of proving out a pos pos morph go for it. keep us posted through the next 7 years. LOL if i am coming off mean i relly dont want to. i just hate to see a person with there hopes in the clouds with a project that most of us would not reccomend. you best bet is to go at least buy a 1.1 of what ever morph you have your heart set on. most people will even give a free het male with the buy of a het female.

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I don't think you're coming off as mean, I just want to make sure you understand why I'm adding an unknown poss. normal male to my collection at this point. I basically bought him as a guaranteed 100% het without paperwork from a guy I trust enoughy to think it is worth the gamble. Het for what, I don't know, and that seems kind of stupid, but this snake stood out to me enough to enquire even before I was told that he was a het. Honestly, I'm kind of stoked to have an unkown project like this that will take years to prove one way or the other. If he passes anything about his pattern down to offspring, I'd be happy to breed him to a female co-dom in a couple of years to try for cleaner looking morphs. If he proves out to be a het for a recessive morph when he's bred back to his daughters I'd be happy. If he proves to be a normal, than I guess I get to entertain my gambling vice for 3 or more years for $30 and some rats. I didn't buy him thinking I'm going to hatch out my first morphs for cheap. I've spent about $7,000 on snakes in the last 12 months, and by the time this guy proves one way or the other, I could be hatching out 3-4 way combos. I'm doing it just to see what happens.

There's nothing wrong at all with having normal males. I myself have that striped male. If he proves to be genetic or not, it does not really matter to me in terms of keeping him. I chose him as a cool-looking, must-have snake first. Anything genetic about him would be a huge bonus, but not something I am counting on of course. I think that, your similar attitude about your male, is the right mind set :)

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I was thinking fire until I saw his belly.

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How should a fire belly be?

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Originally Posted by box

How should a fire belly be?

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From the one's I've seen they have all white bellies with no black markings below the saddles.

Thanks :)