Minmal weight/age for breeding males?

I am just shooting this out there, as there are many respected breeders and newcomers like myself as well. I hope that this does not get argumentative, as I am only trying to get a definitive answer. What is the minimum weight and age that you'd start breeding a male BP? Please explain factors such as the relation of snake length to girth/weight; body type; etc. Thanks; I just want to know!
I personally have never bred a male that was under 600g. My spider was about that last year and was not interested in breeding, though he was producing spermie plugs. Now at 800-odd grams, he is acting the stud.
And while we're at it, what is your litmus test to determine if a female is ready? I personally waited last year until my smallest female topped 1800g and was stocky looking without being overly fat. She produced nicely last year, but had 4 lozenge-shaped eggs. Do smaller females lay fewer and larger eggs, or was this just something of a random thing?

I think it depends on the animal/s....

I have used males at 350 and up, if the male looks like he can get the job done then I'll see how he does. Some males imo are ready at an early weight and some not.

Using good judgement is key.

Just like there is more then one way to feed bps, there is also more then one way to house them and more then one way breed them and more then one time of the year to breed them.

Yep, a million ways to do it. Right now, the smallest male breeding for this season with me is just under 600 grams. He was a little less(550) when I started the season, but is still eating as well as he locked with his girl for the first time a few days ago. He is an 06. Id try an 07 male, sure. If he is a 3 month old sausage no, its not gonna happen.(Or is it?Jas?:weirdface:rofl:) If I was breeding lets say an 07 at 400 grams, Id definately have him spending less time with the ladies and a little more time resting in between. Id also be sure to be very careful, and check check on him a little more frequently.

I think as long as you are careful and pay attention, it can't hurt to give a small male a try.

Personnally 700/800 grams because that is what I am comfortable with, but I have no issue with people knowing what they do and breeding smaller males.

I haven't decided how low I'd be willing to go - both males breeding for me this year are over 1100 grams.

Would I ever breed a much smaller male? I'm opening up my mind to learning from others who have bred younger, lighter males.

But I think the most IMPORTANT thing, when making any decision that directly affects your animals is to tune in to them and the signals that they're giving you. You know if your animal is stressed, is acting off, even if they are behaviorally different because of breeding anyway. You have to know your animals, and be willing to put a project on hold for another year if you determine it's in your animals' best interest.

I believe that Jas has been succesful breeding younger males, because he IS so tuned into his animals and doesn't overdue it.

Was I shocked to learn that Murphy, little 200 gram Murphy has already been bred when he was in John's care? Yes, absolutely! Was I concerned about it? Nope, I held that animal in my hands before tucking him away in QT. I trust John knows what he's doing, and this animal appears healthy, is alert, and yes, he's settled in quickly and had his first meal tonight. I don't think he suffered one bit from John's decision.

Will I breed him this year? I haven't decided. Right now - with my current plans, I don't have any females for him. However, if Winston and Pandora still haven't hit it off by March, I may run Murphy with Pandora, and I'm sure picking John's brain about breeding a younger animal.

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Originally Posted by Petboy15

I think as long as you are careful and pay attention, it can't hurt to give a small male a try.

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I'm quite glad someone has posted about this.

Interestingly enough I have an approximately 8 year old normal that was vet probed to be male. This is the first breeding season I've had females large enough to safely breed. Unfortunately so far, this 8 year old 2000 gram male couldn't give a hoot when I introduce him to these available girls.

I put my 06 500+ gram pastel male in with one of the breeding size females for the heck of it. Apparently, he is quite the "ladies man" and knows exactly what moves to make. Much to my surprise, I've seen him lock with two different 1500+ gram females in the last 3 weeks.

From the many resources I've referenced, read, and reviewed my pastel male is certainly on the smaller side of what can be safely bred. I've seen him lock, or what I feel I can confidently interpret as a lock, within two days of introducing him to a female. After they are done, I put him back in his own tub to rest. He is feeding normally and looks healthy to me. (I'm wondering if that added *sparkle* to his eye is my imagination) I've weighed him weekly throughout and he hasn't lost any weight.

I'm particularly interested in this thread, as I hope I'm not being negligent in letting my little male meet and greet these girls.

Jen, I did not mean to offend you in that other post! Just with all the "New people" that always hear about the 90 day qt. I thought it should have been brought up. As far as the smallest male bred.. 175g. with his mom in 06. Why? I'm trying to help figure out these animals! I have been to all the big breeders sights and they all do it differently. I just kind of mixed it and gave it a twist. No harm is ever done to my animals. Like I have told Ralph and others, I have huge 3 year old males I wouldnt breed. Bottom line is, The snakes Know what to do and when to do it! The keepers Like BT and Myself, Just Know what to look for. If a young male dies from being bred to early, Thats one thing. But not QTing for the proper time could and does kill Hundreds of animals. There is a big difference. I'm just trying to Help the ball python community the best I can..

John, what are your reasons for not breeding your huge 3 year old males, if you don't mind me asking?

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

John, what are your reasons for not breeding your huge 3 year old males, if you don't mind me asking?

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They are shy. and picky feeders.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

They are shy. and picky feeders.

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Don't you think that if you let them slay a few hood rats, they'd loosen up and have some confidence? Worked for my friend Anthony. :D

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Don't you think that if you let them slay a few hood rats, they'd loosen up and have some confidence? Worked for my friend Anthony. :D

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Nope..:P

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Don't you think that if you let them slay a few hood rats, they'd loosen up and have some confidence? Worked for my friend Anthony. :D

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:8:

Logs!

My smallest breeder is 480 g. I didn't think there was any chance of breeding him this year, just because of what I've always read in books and forums. He's my spider and I popped plugs last night. After reading Jas' stories and listening to Reptile radio, I'd give any healthy male with sperm a shot. I'd probably only start with 1-2 females, and give him longer off than an 800 g male, but I don't think that a couple of all nighters would be too dentrimental for a chubby little guy as long as I keep an eye on him. Definately nothing under 80 g though. :D

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

Logs!

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???

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

???

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weren't you in chat on weds?

:weirdface

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

My smallest breeder is 480 g. I didn't think there was any chance of breeding him this year, just because of what I've always read in books and forums. He's my spider and I popped plugs last night. After reading Jas' stories and listening to Reptile radio, I'd give any healthy male with sperm a shot. I'd probably only start with 1-2 females, and give him longer off than an 800 g male, but I don't think that a couple of all nighters would be too dentrimental for a chubby little guy as long as I keep an eye on him. Definately nothing under 80 g though. :D

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Good luck Bro! And just think, The more smaller breeders like us. The less the importers need to bring in....:salute:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

weren't you in chat on weds?

:weirdface

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Nope. Must have been a PDub imposter.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Good luck Bro! And just think, The more smaller breeders like us. The less the importers need to bring in....:salute:

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:rockon:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Nope. Must have been a PDub imposter.

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oh.

:confused:

So far my 3 males (600g, 400g and 300g) are not going - At least I haven't caught anyone in the act. I'm hoping they figure stuff out soon or I'm going to give you a call Jas and get some pointers.....

You need to start selling your magic Jaz dust.... ;-)

Memes, now I'm intrigued about logs.

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Originally Posted by JenH

So far my 3 males (600g, 400g and 300g) are not going - At least I haven't caught anyone in the act. I'm hoping they figure stuff out soon or I'm going to give you a call Jas and get some pointers.....

You need to start selling your magic Jaz dust.... ;-)

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Hi, Jen! You know its not magic. It's just every thing has to be right! I didnt just jump in with the first snake I owned and said Breed you little f'er.. It does take some time. Watch them, Learn them, And Live them! Pretty soon youll be one of them!!! Sounds silly But it works for me..

Be the ball. Be the ball. Nananananana

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Memes, now I'm intrigued about logs.

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:devilish:

buahahaaa...

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

:devilish:

buahahaaa...

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That's cold.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

That's cold.

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I'd tell ya...but then I'd have to kill you.

:oops:

All I know, is that I don't know very much.

Last year I attempted to breed 6 males all two year olds and in the 700-1000gram range and only two out of the six would breed :( The others showed zero interest.

This year everything is breeding, even my 6 month old butter male. Who knows? The animals I'd say.

Jas you mentioned BT he's got 6 or 7 07' males all breeding!! All I need to know is what you guys put in the water?

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

...All I need to know is what you guys put in the water?

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That too, but I still want to know where to get those juiced up rats that quaduple a snakes weight in a few months. ;)

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

I'd tell ya...but then I'd have to kill you.

:oops:

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Good luck with that. I'm like a freakin' drunk ninja over here. :)

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

All I know, is that I don't know very much.

Last year I attempted to breed 6 males all two year olds and in the 700-1000gram range and only two out of the six would breed :( The others showed zero interest.

This year everything is breeding, even my 6 month old butter male. Who knows? The animals I'd say.

Jas you mentioned BT he's got 6 or 7 07' males all breeding!! All I need to know is what you guys put in the water?

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Common Sense, Is all it takes Bro!

Its funny BT talks about "Zen" breeding. Zen breeding as he says it is when you spend so much time in the snakeroom with the animals, watching and noting every little move you begin to really get a feel for the animals.

Whos developing, who’s off feed and why, who’s not feeling so great, the general mood of the aniamls, all these things the "Zen" breeder knows just by stepping into the snakeroom. The Zen breeder notices little hints and signs that most over see.

Pretty cool stuff. From the sounds of it Jas has the Zen down pat which is most likely why he has such great results

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Its funny BT talks about "Zen" breeding. Zen breeding as he says it is when you spend so much time in the snakeroom with the animals, watching and noting every little move you begin to really get a feel for the animals.

Whos developing, who’s off feed and why, who’s not feeling so great, the general mood of the aniamls, all these things the "Zen" breeder knows just by stepping into the snakeroom. The Zen breeder notices little hints and signs that most over see.

Pretty cool stuff. From the sounds of it Jas has the Zen down pat which is most likely why he has such great results

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Zen, It is! BT Knows me like a book. We have only talked on the phone one time.. How could he possible know me? How could BT The want to be Yankee from the south! LOL!! Know what My males are and arent cappable of doing? Common Sense!!! BT Is having a killer year! Good Luck Brother.. Did any die yet? Bet your doing it for the money like I am!!! LMFAO!!

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Be the ball. Be the ball. Nananananana

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Exactly what I was thinking!! LOL!!

The snakes will breed when they are ready, I know. I need more snakes to improve my odds.... :-)

Well this is a real eye-opener for me. Seems like it is pretty acceptable to breed little males. I completely agree with knowing your animals and feeling for them and thus knowing what they are and are not capable of.

This is a great thread…For what it’s worth I’ll chime in with my .02 cents…I’m a firm believer in knowing what’s going on with your animals…Watch them and learn…Just like some have already said – They’ll tell you what’s going on if you pay attention…The youngest male I have ever bred is around 325 grams – Little Bee male that hatched out this Aug…Some might ask – What would make you try him so small and young? The little fellow was always a great eater until the weather changed…About mid Oct. I noticed that he constantly cruised his tub…He refused his meals several feedings…That’s the same thing my older males do every year when it’s time to get busy with the ladies…I put him with a proven breeder female (not a huge girl – Around 2200 grams) who is giving off her own signs of being ready for some action…Came home in the morning from working and bam - Locked up…Believe it or not – He started eating again (and hasn’t stopped) and has had his way with a few different girls now…My plans are to run him thru 3 females this year…If he starts losing serious weight or if I see any other signs of something going wrong – He’s done – It’s that simple…I've never been a big “book” man – I’d rather just do it and find out for myself…There is a ton of crap out there on the forums that is total BS…Best advice I could give someone is – Talk with breeders who have hade success – Listen – Then thank them for the knowledge they shared…There is no magic – No fairy dust that gets sprinkled in the water – It’s just mother nature running her course - With a little help…LOL...Jas - Who loves you more than me man? We're 2 peas in a pod but you can have all that Yankee :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: - Money? What money?...LOL…Larry my brother - Just getting it done my man - Just like you are!!! Good luck everybody – Sorry for the crappy pics - I try...A few 07 males...
BT

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...09-2007003.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...03-2007002.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...16-2007004.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...10-2007003.jpg

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Memes, now I'm intrigued about logs.

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Dead end!