aggression..

Is there really any aggression in ball pythons or is it more likely that the animal has poor husbandry, improper care, exc?

There is a couple who im considering adopting a ball python from, that I found on craigslist. They claim its aggresive and they want to rehome it. Im interested to see is it possible for a snake to become more "ball python laid back" with proper care? I dont doubt this animal is possibly stressed out and acting badly because of it but i thought when a ball is stressed they will ball up, hense the name. are there any balls (cb) that are really "Aggresive"? They are interested in keeping contact with us to see how our care can hopefully help this animal. It really sounds like they are at their wits ends and really unsure how to help him so they want to get "rid" of him..am i making a foolish mistake or should i go for it? I have high hopes I can help this animal.. im awaiting an answer on age/size/current husbandry/exc

You all have always been so wonderful and always give great suggestions. I wish I knew about this place when we got our very first ball python years ago. The knowledge I have now compared to then is an amazing difference.. and as a side note, none of my balls have ever been "aggressive" i have had moody scared babies that settle down quickly with a proper setup and time to settle but otherwise no problem animals.

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first af all its a she no offence umm shes pretty big i dount shes bout 3 feet maybe more ummmm shes probebly stressed becouse shes in a small tank and small bowl i got her from a freind and i havnt been able to find or buy anything bigger for her shes already ina warm place so i dount have anyheat rock on her and like i said small tank and bowl i took out the bedding a couple days ago i have no more ummwhat she does is strike at me like i cant get close to the tank even becouse she strikes and she hits herself trying to get me i feed her every week like i read and know i have to and i dount grab her so yea the 5 days thing bout after eating i dount doits not fear becouse she aint scared she strikesi dount know how old she isbout my sis going to over there i really dought that will happen becouse of a couple resons sorry bout thatand i really have nothing to send her with becouse i dount think your going to leave her in that small tank so i guess not sorry again im having money trouble right know ummmm oh yea if you can send me some info on how to take care of a bearded dragon becouse im thinking of getting one i have a savvanah moniter lizard that i take care of becouse its not that agreesive that one i have it in a big tank and i take care of it if a bearded dragon is the same then dount worry bout it just tell me and ill know how and tahta bout it

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I know its tough to understand... im having difficulties trying to read it too, it just really sounds like inexperience to me.

for a ball that is "3" ft what size bin would you suggest? I have to run it by the good ole' hubby because we always swore we would never have an aggressive snake as long as we had small children but i hate to think there is a nice snake being hidden by fear and stress..

It sounds to me (from what I can understand anyway) that the agression is all a result of poor husbandry. Sounds to me like maybe the BP has no heat source and is in a too small tank and possibly no hide??? I think, and I'll admit I only have limited experience with BPs, just the two that I have, that if she were to get into a proper enclosure with proper heat and humidity, and was made to feel safe and secure, she would probably calm down and do well. My only concern would be any health issues that the BP may have acquired through improper husbandry. When and if you decide to take on this BP, their may be vet bills to consider as well. Especially if she has been without proper heat and humidity for a length of time.

Another thing, try to tell the person that has this snake that if she is having money issues, then now is DEFINITELY not the time to be looking into getting a bearded. I can't believe that the person is trying to rehome the BP and admits to having money issues and yet is considering getting a bearded, which probably require a bit more money invested into them than BPs do. :confused:

it does sound like the snake may be acting the way it is because it is stressed out due to improper husbandry/care, but there is no way of knowing how or if its demeanor will change given the proper setup and care.

if you do decide to take this snake in, i'd recommend keeping it in a quiet, low-lit area, enclosure filled with crumpled balls of newspaper and nice tight hides for at least 60-90 days while it settles in order to give it the most security possible. if this snake is actually around 3 feet long (inexperienced people often give estimates on size that are inaccurate) starting out with a 28qt rubbermaid/32qt sterilite will work.

also make sure to quarantine the snake well, and get a fecal to the vet as soon as you can get one.

and i'm with pamela--definitely let this person know that beardies might be a bit expensive for them when it come to feeding (especially babies). i don't think they realize just how many crickets/insects/greens they will need to supply and how much that will cost.

I agree. I don't know enough about the BP situation, but I do know that beardies are really expensive to upkeep. Not only is there a ton of food, and many people underestimate it and thus underfeed their lizards, but there's the UVB bulb they need and the size of enclosure...plus a dozen other things. Certainly let them know that it would not be the best choice for people with money problems.

I had turned right around last night and sent them an email telling them just how expensive the beardeds are and how i thought they shouldnt look into one, especially if they are experiencing money issues. They said the ball is being kept in a "bar like place" thats warm enough (no additional heat source) they also said shes eating one small mouse a week (if that) so right there it tells me the animal is badly under fed if its "3 ft" Cameron is eating a large mouse every five days and shes like 140g and just over 18" long. Its so saddening to hear stories like this and it makes my heart ache to give it a try, especially knowing I can take much better care of it.

I'd like bite you too if you kept me in a bad house and barely fed me enough to continue to live. Poor snake.

Ashley while I'm not about to say every snake can be calmed down I will ask you to use the search function and look for old posts about my snake, Brannagh, as an example of a highly defensive big snake that we took in. She'd been dumped at a pet store as an unwanted pet snake, was about 1,900 grams of pure fury and the pet store employees lived in fear of her.

She's now handled easily by just about anyone, even our 6 year old can sit with big Miss B (under supervision of course, that's just sensible with a small kid and a 3,200 gram plus, 5 foot long female BP).

I will caution you it took time, loads of patience and at first gloves to avoid her bites. We also bought one of these to place Brannagh in safely as at first we could not even change her water without risking multiple strikes. It's well worth the $4.00 it cost (I now have tons of these for multiple snakes and even to hold rats in).

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...etransport.jpg

I would say upfront before you and your husband decide to rescue this snake is to define your goals for her and how you will accomplish this. Things like...

1) Feeding. Likely she is underfed therefore what will we offer on a weekly basis to address this issue? I'd say to up her feeding slowly over time, not a massive jump in prey volume right up front, just a nice gradual week by week upping until she's eating appropriately and you have seen no regurges or issues with feeding.

2) Health. Could an underlying health issue be upsetting the snake from poor husbandry over time? Do we have a herp vet handy to do a fecal float on her (no need to take the snake in, just the poop)?

3) Quarantine. Do we have a quiet, low traffic area of our home to both quarantine and de-stress this snake in? Personally Mike and I use a corner of our master bedroom and during QT we ask our children to not approach or bother a QT snake at all. Only Mike and I do care on QT snakes.

4) Housing. Do we have the means to do an appropriate housing for her? Nothing fancy here Ashley, a tub, hides, water dish. I'd personally put her on layers of white Viva paper towels at first anyways to make sure she's defecating and urating plus watch for mites just in case. Viva is reasonably priced, pure white and as soft as cloth. I love this brand of paper toweling for our snakes in QT.

5) Handling. Do we understand that at first handling is not the priority? De-stressing this snake is, as is getting her on a proper feeding routine, properly housed and watching for health issues. Handling should be the least of your concerns for the first few months. Once you are ready to handle her other than moving for cage maintenance you can decide on the steps to take in order to make it a good experience for you and the snake. Understand though that she may require special handling for a time. Brannagh fought handling at first, eventually came to sense it was not going to hurt her and then stopped the fight/strike response completely. It took time and patience though, this just can't be rushed.

Thank you Joanna, your post really helped and i will use the search function to look up your snake. While I do have you here, was he/she a juvinile or adult when you took it in? In order to move her did you use snake those tong things or just carefullly move her? I do have a place to quietly qt her in and the children are restricted from holding the animals without us right there anyway, in fact alot of the time they dont even remember we have Cameron, shes young and we want her to just grow and be happy right now. Im the only one who handles her for the time being...

I now know how important it is to let a snake stressed to the point of aggression, take its time to come around.. i did expect it would take a few months before i could even attempt to hold the animal out of pleasure...its very helpful knowledge. thank you for helping me better understand what im getting into. I have high hopes this snake can be "Saved" and live a long healthier life. Thankfully we do know a couple wonderful exotic vets who i can trust and who i know personally.

While we'll never know exactly Brannagh's age at that time or in fact what happened to her prior to the time we found her in that pet store, I can tell you our herp vet assessed her at approximately an 02. She was at the time 1,900 grams and appropriate weight for length so lack of feeding was not one of her issues with her previous owners.

To move Brannagh I set up that plastic holder I showed you a picture of, right beside her enclosure on a stable surface. I gloved up, made sure I was not distracted or in a hurry and took a few deep breaths to make sure I was ready and confident in my handling of her. She was a snake I won't say I feared, but you have to admit to an instinctive reaction when a 1,900 gram snake fires out of a hide at you or slams into the side of a tub. Brannagh was not bluffing at that time, she was ready and willing to do her worst and I respected that.

Anyways, I would either grab her right behind her head so she couldn't turn and bite or most often quickly drop a dark small cloth on her head so I could get behind the head with a firm hold. Then I'd simply grab the rest of her and pop her into the holding container. To get her back in her tub I just opened the lid and slid her back in as reaching into that small container with a furious snake in it just wasn't going to work LOL.

It worked well. I've only been bitten once by a snake and that was Brannagh. It was a very minor thing though, just a tooth got through the thin part of the glove really and it was my fault. I hesitated on the grab, she took advantage of that and I got nailed, she immediately did let go.....no biggie really.

It appears that the snake would be a fortunate snake if you gave it a proper environnment and that you are up to the task of being patient enough to wait for it to settle down.

Again, thank you Joanna.. I have yet to be bit by a snake, i have witnessed other people being bitten though (never by a snake i owned) I have been struck at and nearly missed when we had an albino burmese back in the day.. mean little bugger! It does make you very nervous (or me at least) You have made wonderful suggestions. I talked to Darren a bit this morning and while he is a little reluctant to get into a "troubled" animal he respects my willingness and interest in going forward, a bit more discussion tonight will be the final decision on whether or not to move forward. I have always been up for a challenge (i have purchased exrace horses just for the challange of "breaking" them to be riding horses and did so successfully on more than one occassion) It isnt just the challenge but knowing joe shmo isnt getting this animal and not properly caring for it.

dsirckle, I hope we can make a positive difference.

:( Darren wants to hold off.. At this point he thinks we have enough animals and knows were expecting at least one or two from adam in the spring. I have to respect that.

I completely respect that Ashley and think it's wonderful that you and your partner have this sort of honest dialogue going on. None of us can rescue every snake we see in trouble or we can well slip into a hoarding situation and get overwhelmed. Rescue isn't rescue if you can't do right by a snake (not saying you wouldn't hon of course).

Perhaps since you cannot personally help this snake you could post enough info here, in case another member would be interested in this rescue. Also if you have a herp club or a reptile rescue in your community or within reasonable driving distance you could contact them about doing the rescue. If all else fails, you could also direct the snake's current owners to this website and encourage them to learn enough to at least give this snake the right care while they search for a proper new home for it.

Jo nailed it, can't bring home everything that needs help... even though it's REALLY hard sometimes...
Along with all the great advice given regarding QT, feeding, handling... I'd like to add that's it's always a good idea to pre-treat the QT enclosure that a new arrival is going into with PAM... (prevent a mite) ESPECIALLY if it's an unknown source, like Craigslist. Just thought I'd add that in, for future reference...

Excellent advice, Laura! :)

That poor snake... I certainly feel the pain at not being able to help such animals. I always refer any I see to the local rescue though.

As for pre-treating with PAM, it's almost a must for me. I pre-treat any new enclosure for a snake regardless of source...just in case. :)

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Originally Posted by Argentra

That poor snake... I certainly feel the pain at not being able to help such animals. I always refer any I see to the local rescue though.

As for pre-treating with PAM, it's almost a must for me. I pre-treat any new enclosure for a snake regardless of source...just in case. :)

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I've been following along, it's been a super helpful thread since I want to get into the rescue business. A quick question though, how do you pretreat with PAM? I am not sure I understand what you guys mean by "pretreat".

Pretreating is essentially just spraying the cage with the PAM before you even get the snake. That way, the protection against any incoming mites is already in place.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Pretreating is essentially just spraying the cage with the PAM before you even get the snake. That way, the protection against any incoming mites is already in place.

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Ok, but doesn't the PAM disapate once it's sprayed on, or will it still kill mites/eggs after dried. I am slightly confused why you'd spray a sterile tub.....

The residue is the key with PAM and lasts about 30 days...which is why it's the best for killing all stages of mites.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

The residue is the key with PAM and lasts about 30 days...which is why it's the best for killing all stages of mites.

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Oh I didn't know that...

So you spray a sterile tub and sterile bedding too? Wouldn't it be absorbed in the bedding, causing harm to the snake? I guess when I think of PAM I equate it to something like bleach where residue and fumes are bad to a creature.

I've never had mites so I haven't had to deal with PAM first hand. I might order a can to have it on hand.