ok this is SUPER SUPER graphic. what happend to this bp? any one know?

i found this image on google image search.
http://www.proexotics.com/graphics/b...ive_prey_1.jpg
apperently this is due to live feeding.:(

been posted before. I believe it's the result of someone leaving a rat in overnight.

i thought it was from a burn.

That is the most messed up little guy ever. I feel so bad for him or her. Wow I can't believe someone would be that irresponsible and let that happen to their poor snake. :mad:

It has NOTHING to do with live feeding, and everything to do with irresponsible owners. They left the rat in with an uninterested snake for days with no food or water. What was it supposed to do?

My snakes don't eat in 30 minutes, I remove the rat that's sitting in the corner grooming itself.

No one monitoring a live feed would allow that much damage to happen.

This image which is often used by people who oppose live feeding has a story behind it.

The rodent was left in the enclosure without food or water for several days.

Again live feeding when done responsibly can be done safely and obviously leaving a rodent in an enclosure for days or unsupervised is not responsible.

isnt that so depressing?

Awww.. I feel so bad for the poor thing.. I feed live- but I do it outside of the enclosure, and watch the whole time untill their done constricting, to make sure their not injured during that, either.

it is very sad, but why won't the sanke just kill it? they will bite us if we hurt them, but not something it can actually kill?

I'm not defending the owners actions, I just seriously don't understand.

rats can be downright aggressive and intimidating, they're predators after all.

I think once the snakes feeding response is 'bluffed' he enters defensive mode and all of a sudden, the roles are reversed.

I have to agree, they do bite but have you noticed that when scared or disturbed they like to curl up into tight lil balls and hide.

very sad that pic got me upset and angry..:(

That's just awful, I couldn't just drop a rat in and walk away.. I have to watch and make sure my babies are safe and not getting bit. Sometimes it seems like I'm being over protective, but after seeing this I know I'm definitely taking the right precautions.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Again live feeding when done responsibly can be done safely and obviously leaving a rodent in an enclosure for days or unsupervised is not responsible.

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I have a question about that, and before I ask it I want to mention that I'm not trying to be argumentative or confrontational - I'm just honestly curious.

I've read that if the snake grabs the prey poorly (for example, in the hindquarters instead of the head/neck) that they prey will have the freedom necessary to bite and claw the snake, doing damage of varying degrees in the process.

Assuming that this is accurate insofar as I've related the scenario, would this not always be a possibility when feeding live, even when supervised?

On a related note; what exactly can one do when supervising a live feeding 'gone bad'? Can anybody offer stories that may educate us novice BP owners?

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Originally Posted by NightLad

On a related note; what exactly can one do when supervising a live feeding 'gone bad'? Can anybody offer stories that may educate us novice BP owners?

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I very rarely have to "assist" my female BP with her live feedings because she almost always grabs the rat by the face. But with my pastel male, you never know where he's going to hit that rat. As a precaution, I always have either my pair of surgical forceps (about a foot long) or a pencil, and if the rat's mouth is able to bite my BP, I use those to stick into the rat's mouth to prevent biting, or to hold their feet back so they arn't scratching my BP's to death. The majority of the time, my BP's get good constrictions where I don't have to interfere much. And even if they do get a little 'scratched up', it's nothing that wont go away with the next shed.

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Originally Posted by NightLad

On a related note; what exactly can one do when supervising a live feeding 'gone bad'? Can anybody offer stories that may educate us novice BP owners?

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When you feed a Ball python and chose to feed live there are few things that will help ensure that it is done safely.

Pre-scent the room - This will entice your BP to eat.

Feeding an appropriate size prey - I feed nothing larger than a small rat 45/65 grams to my adults.

Do not stress the prey - Just drop the prey in the enclosure, do not restrain it.

Do not leave the prey in the enclosure for more than 20 minutes and remove it if not eaten.

Always supervise feeding until the end.

None of my BP ever sustain an injury not even a minor one.

In the end owners should feed what work for them, what is convenient, and what make them feel comfortable however they should be knowledgeable about the options they have, and know that when done right feeding live can be done safely.

This doesnt surprise me... I was trying to feed one of my males who went off feed and the rat was like running around on top of him... the snake seemed interested and like it wanted to eat... he would follow it around the cage and just when i thought he was gonna nab it.... he pulled up... I really just think was thinking... "can I get freaky with this thing"... after about 10-15mins and grabassin I took the rat out.

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Originally Posted by NightLad

I have a question about that, and before I ask it I want to mention that I'm not trying to be argumentative or confrontational - I'm just honestly curious.

I've read that if the snake grabs the prey poorly (for example, in the hindquarters instead of the head/neck) that they prey will have the freedom necessary to bite and claw the snake, doing damage of varying degrees in the process.
Assuming that this is accurate insofar as I've related the scenario, would this not always be a possibility when feeding live, even when supervised?

On a related note; what exactly can one do when supervising a live feeding 'gone bad'? Can anybody offer stories that may educate us novice BP owners?

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Whenever any of mine have not grabbed the prey ideally, and it's struggling more than normal, they throw another coil around them. The toenails on rats and mice don't damage the scales on your snake (at least not in my experience) and prey is gasping for air. I've never once interfered with a kill, and I've been feeding live for over 2.5 years, and I've calculated over 3000 live prey items that I've fed off (I used to feed 2 mice a week to each of my snakes, now they're on one rat a week).

I've observed that when it looks like the prey is going to bite, as soon as the snakes feel it, they squeeze even tighter, which causes the prey to gasp for a breath, rather than bite.

I've not sustained even a scratch on my snakes - and I check them thoroughly.

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it is very sad, but why won't the sanke just kill it? they will bite us if we hurt them, but not something it can actually kill?

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They are called ball pythons for a reason - when they are stressed or being attacked, they ball up (most likely to protect their bellies and often times their heads as well when they tuck it into the ball). If a snake isn't interested in eating, it retreats. The rat had no food offered, it started nibbling on the snake, the snake balled up and the owners weren't there to protect their snake. Shame on them.

i hate seeing that picture:(

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Originally Posted by NightLad

I've read that if the snake grabs the prey poorly (for example, in the hindquarters instead of the head/neck) that they prey will have the freedom necessary to bite and claw the snake, doing damage of varying degrees in the process.

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Yes. If a snake does not grab the rat correctly it may get bit by the rat. Generally this is not a strong bite, but it may break the skin. The rat is generally dead in a moment and the damage is done and the rat is eaten. Just apply a spot of antibiotic and it will heal, often with no visible scar at all.

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Assuming that this is accurate insofar as I've related the scenario, would this not always be a possibility when feeding live, even when supervised?

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Yes and No. Yes, A bite is possible if the snake hits the prey wrong (hind end first) and if it does happen there is little you can do. You may cause more physical damage and you will defiantly cause more trauma and stress trying to make snake/rat let go. No, a rat can not take a few hours to chew up the snake, as in the picture above, if you supervise it. That is where your responsibility of monitoring the feeding comes in.

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On a related note; what exactly can one do when supervising a live feeding 'gone bad'? Can anybody offer stories that may educate us novice BP owners?

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See my last answer. I feed live and I feed fresh killed. I have a few snakes that do miss the head now and then. The snakes with poor aim get fresh killed.

Rick

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Originally Posted by juddb

i hate seeing that picture:(

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I don't care much for seeing that kind of picture either, but I do admit that now and then, pictures like that are good "shock" treatment to show unresponsible or new keepers why responsible feeding is required when feeding live. Sadly, sometimes just saying "Your snake could be damaged if you leave the rat with the snake unsupervised for a period of time" doesn't sink in, but when someone sees that picture.. it sinks in.

Rick

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Originally Posted by SiscoReptiles

I don't care much for seeing that kind of picture either, but I do admit that now and then, pictures like that are good "shock" treatment to show unresponsible or new keepers why responsible feeding is required when feeding live. Sadly, sometimes just saying "Your snake could be damaged if you leave the rat with the snake unsupervised for a period of time" doesn't sink in, but when someone sees that picture.. it sinks in.

Rick

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agreed!

Snakes eat live in the wild without issues. The issues occur when people are put into the equation and do not know how to properly feed a snake a live rodent.

Snakes can also be harmed from feeding f/t rodents improperly. It may not provide graphic pictures like the one posted, but having your insides rot from a half frozen rat sitting in your gut can't be any better than being bitten to death. Again, the safety of the feeding method is solely dependant upon the keeper.

F/T and live feeding both have risks. If your snake is injured during ANY type of feeding, it is YOUR fault and occured because YOU did not do things properly.